Reconciled to God while enemies !

[zoidar]

Being reconciled with God means obedience, or else there’s either been no reconciliation-or we’ve trampled upon and forfeited it.

I'm of the view when we have come to faith in Christ and have received God's Spirit, we have been reconciled to God.

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
— Romans 5:10

 

[fhansen]

I'm of the view when we have come to faith in Christ and have received God's Spirit, we have been reconciled to God.

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
— Romans 5:10

And to the extent that we fall back into persistent grave sin-deeds of the flesh-we've unreconciled ourselves all over again, failing to remain in Him. Because those who are sons of God don't sin in such manner.

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:3-4, 12-14

 

[zoidar]

And to the extent that we fall back into persistent grave sin-deeds of the flesh-we've unreconciled ourselves all over again, failing to remain in Him. Because those who are sons of God don't sin in such manner.

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:3-4, 12-14

Sure, if we live in grave sin-deeds, we need to repent.

 

[Clare73]

Sure, if we live in grave sin-deeds, we need to repent.

If we live in grave sin deeds, on what basis do we think we were ever reconciled in the first place?

 

[zoidar]

If we live in grave sin deeds, on what basis do we think we were ever reconciled in the first place?

Maybe you know you were reconciled, had a completely changed life, but circumstances were such you fell back into living in grave sins?

I know you and many others don't believe that can happen. I am of the opposite view. We are not likely to agree about this any time soon, but that is fine.

 

[Clare73]

Maybe you know you were reconciled, had a completely changed life, but cicumstances were such you fell back into living in grave sins?

There is reformation (by self) and there is transformation (by God).

Reformation and morality are not enough (Mt 12:43-44), and can be even more dangerous (Mt 12:45) as the demon of immorality is replaced with demons of self-righteousness, pride, religion (Mt 23:15).
His heart had only been swept clean, not washed (Jn 13:8, 10). The "leprosy" was in the wall (Lev 14:37).

Reformation can be mistaken for transformation (Mt 12:43-45) if one is quite well-pleased with the success of his own personally-achieved reform.

 

[zoidar]

There is reformation (by self) and there is transformation (by God).

Reformation and morality are not enough (Mt 12:43-44), and can be even more dangerous (Mt 12:45) as the demon of immorality is replaced with demons of self-righteousness, pride, religion (Mt 23:15).
His heart had only been swept clean, not washed (Jn 13:8, 10). The "leprosy" was in the wall (Lev 14:37).

Reformation can be mistaken for transformation (Mt 12:43-45) if one is quite well-pleased with the success of his own personally-achieved reform.

Sure I believe you can think you were reconciled when you in fact weren't. But you can KNOW you were reconciled and I'm not the one to say you can't fall back to grave sins after being reconciled.

 

[Brightfame52]

Being reconciled with God means obedience, or else there’s either been no reconciliation-or we’ve trampled upon and forfeited it.

Those who Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:10,

Do you deny that ?

 

[fhansen]

Sure, if we live in grave sin-deeds, we need to repent.

Yes, and God never forces His will upon man which is why we can fall back into sin to begin with-for which we may or may not repent.

 

[fhansen]

Those who Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:10,

Do you deny that ?

Christ died for all; God wants none to perish (2 Pet 3:9), but some apparently will. Aside from that, He, alone, knows with perfect certainty whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not, who will persevere and who will not.

 

[Brightfame52]

What the adversaries of Truth have failed to acknowledge, and is why they are guilty of diminishing the Merit's of Christ's Death alone, apart from the application work of the Spirit, that is, even though these Christ died for, and by His Death did reconcile them to God Legally, even while they are being enemies; while others, whom Christ did not die for, and while they are being enemies, they are under God's Wrath and Condemnation as Per Jn 3:18,36

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

See, the Wrath of God cannot abide on any for whom Christ died, because for them, His Wrath has been appeased solely by the Blood of Christ !

Now clearly the only difference from one group being reconciled to God while being enemies, and another group being under God's Wrath and Condemnation while being enemies, the only difference is the Death of Christ ! If this cannot be acknowledged then we are against Christ, against His Death, against His Blood, and The Accomplishments of it before the Law and Justice of God for those He died for !

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ died for all; God wants none to perish (2 Pet 3:9), but some apparently will. Aside from that, He, alone, knows with perfect certainty whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not, who will persevere and who will not.

Those who Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:10,

Do you deny that ?

 

[zoidar]

What the adversaries of Truth have failed to acknowledge, and is why they are guilty of diminishing the Merit's of Christ's Death alone, apart from the application work of the Spirit, that is, even though these Christ died for, and by His Death did reconcile them to God Legally, even while they are being enemies; while others, whom Christ did not die for, and while they are being enemies, they are under God's Wrath and Condemnation as Per Jn 3:18,36

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

See, the Wrath of God cannot abide on any for whom Christ died, because for them, His Wrath has been appeased solely by the Blood of Christ !

Now clearly the only difference from one group being reconciled to God while being enemies, and another group being under God's Wrath and Condemnation while being enemies, the only difference is the Death of Christ ! If this cannot be acknowledged then we are against Christ, against His Death, against His Blood, and The Accomplishments of it before the Law and Justice of God for those He died for !

If that is the case, then faith is totally unnecessary. Or what do you mean faith does?

 

[Brightfame52]

If that is the case, then faith is totally unnecessary. Or what do you mean faith does?

Not talking about faith right now. How were they reconciled to God according to Rom 5:10 ?

 

[zoidar]

Not talking about faith right now. How were they reconciled to God according to Rom 5:10 ?

According to Rom 5:10, I believe it says reconciled [by faith] through death of His Son. Since no longer being enemies after been reconciled it must imply by faith.

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled (no longer enemies), we shall be saved by His life.
— Romans 5:10

We are enemies until we are saved by faith.

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3

You see if you are correct no elect person born after the crucifixion is or ever was an enemy or under wrath since they were already reconciled. This however is not a Biblical teaching.

 

[fhansen]

Those who Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:10,

Do you deny that ?

Christ died for all. When He comes knocking at our door we any or may not answer, depending on whether or not we even care to be reconciled-and to remain reconciled. Faith is the right response, the opening of the door. From our side of the fence that's all we know. Do you deny that?

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." Rev 3:20

 

[Brightfame52]

According to Rom 5:10, I believe it says reconciled [by faith] through death of His Son. Since no longer being enemies after been reconciled it must imply by faith.

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled (no longer enemies), we shall be saved by His life.
— Romans 5:10

We are enemies until we are saved by faith.

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3

You see if you are correct no elect person born after the crucifixion is or ever was an enemy or under wrath since they were already reconciled. This however is not a Biblical teaching.

I dont see the word Faith in Rom 5:10, this isnt about Faith. In Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now according to Rom 5:10 when were they reconciled and how were they reconciled to God ?

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ died for all. When He comes knocking at our door we any or may not answer, depending on whether or not we even care to be reconciled-and to remain reconciled. Faith is the right response, the opening of the door. From our side of the fence that's all we know. Do you deny that?

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." Rev 3:20

According to Rom 5:10 how were they reconciled to God and when ?

 

[zoidar]

I dont see the word Faith in Rom 5:10, this isnt about Faith. In Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now according to Rom 5:10 when were they reconciled and how were they reconciled to God ?

The word faith is not in Rom 5:10, but like I said it's implied. We are enemies of God until we have faith. We are not going to be saved without faith. Jesus death alone doesn't save us/cancel our enmity (reconcile us) to God. We need faith in His Son to be reconciled.

Like I said, if we are already reconciled, faith is unnecessary.

 

[BBAS 64]

When I see that passage it brings me to:

John Chrysostom

There is no one who will save us except the One who loved us so much that while we were yet sinners, he died for us. Do you see what ground this gives for us to hope? For before this there were two difficulties in the way of our being saved. First, we were sinners, and second, our salvation required the Lord’s death, something which was quite incredible before it happened and which required enormous love for it to happen at all. But now that it has happened, the rest becomes that much easier.