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Reconciled to God while enemies !

oikonomia

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Im not explaining nothing to you, all these posts I have been explaining and you reject it all.
Just say "Amen" to the word of God for the greatest blessing.

Amen to "Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world . . . " (Eph. 1:4a)

Amen
to - "who also were in Christ before me." (Rom. 16:7)

Here's a song I learned about Amening the word of God. Copied without permission from Hymn: If from the world you’re longing to be free

If from the world you’re longing to be free,
Amen the Word of God!
If you would live in all reality,
Amen the Word of God!
Amen the Word of God!
Amen the Word of God!
His Word receiving, His Word believing,
Amen the Word of God!
2
If with your sin and self you would be through,
Amen the Word of God!
If you would let the Lord your mind renew,
Amen the Word of God!
Amen the Word of God!
Amen the Word of God!
His Word is living, life-power giving—
Amen the Word of God!
3
Christ as the land of Canaan is our lot—
Amen the Word of God!
If you would enter, harden not your heart—
Amen the Word of God!
Amen the Word of God!
Amen the Word of God!
His Word discerns us, all that concerns us—
Amen the Word of God!
4
Jesus is coming, now He’s on His way—
Amen the Word of God!
Would you be ready if He comes today—
Amen the Word of God!
Amen the Word of God!
Amen the Word of God!
His Word prepares us, to Jesus bears us—
Amen the Word of God!
 
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zoidar

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Im not explaining nothing to you, all these posts I have been explaining and you reject it all.
Of course I reject it. Truth is very important. Christ is very precious to me. ✝️

What you teach is a very new teaching, many things you say are even foreign to Calvin (I'm not claiming to be an expert on Calvin though).

My purpose in this thread is to show you where you are wrong to hopefully change your view, also to protect others from what I find is a destructive theology.

God bless!
 
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Brightfame52

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Of course I reject it. Truth is very important. Christ is very precious to me. ✝️

What you teach is a very new teaching, many things you say are even foreign to Calvin (I'm not claiming to be an expert on Calvin though).

My purpose in this thread is to show you (and others reading this thread of similar theology) where you are wrong, to hopefully change your (and their) mind.

God bless!
So dont ask me to do a bunch of explaining, wasting time. The things I explained already is going to have to do, if you dont agree with it, thats fine, but Im not going to feel obligated to explain everything you run and get for me to explain.
 
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zoidar

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So dont ask me to do a bunch of explaining, wasting time. The things I explained already is going to have to do, if you dont agree with it, thats fine, but Im not going to feel obligated to explain everything you run and get for me to explain.
I don't want you to explain. I want you to think through your theology. I point out where I find what I think are weaknesses. I will do it as long as you try to convince Christians here of your theology.
 
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zoidar

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So dont ask me to do a bunch of explaining, wasting time. The things I explained already is going to have to do, if you dont agree with it, thats fine, but Im not going to feel obligated to explain everything you run and get for me to explain.
I want you to know as a newborn believer someone convinced me of similar things you are teaching (limited atonement/particular redemption and such). For well over a year I was very depressed and got weak in faith because of that very teaching and I fell into a shameful sin I can do nothing about today. That is one reason I'm so much against it. I know the harm it can cause to someone who is new to faith and theology. I know the harm it caused me.
 
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oikonomia

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I want you to know as a newborn believer someone convinced me of similar things you are teaching (limited atonement/particular redemption). For well over a year I was very depressed and got weak in faith because of that very teaching and I fell into a shameful sin I can do nothing about today. That is one reason I'm so much against it. I know the harm it can cause to someone who's not grounded in theology. I know the harm it caused me.
Thankyou for sharing that testimony.

It is not unusual that young Christian (or not so young) fall into bad sin for which she or he is much ashamed.
God knew what we were capable of doing quite well before we were even born.
Here is where you put your trust in His foreknowledge to positively work for you.
God made more than ample provision for your failure as a Christian before your were ever alive to stumble.

Sometimes God forgives us but we have a hard time forgiving ourselves.
Know that that blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin - private sins, public sins, forgivable sins, unforgivable sins, whatever sins - the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from every sin. (1 John 1:7)

Put that in your predestination cannon and fire it at Satan's head.

God does not want us to grovel for years in regret. He wants us to BELIEVE.
Time does not cleanse our sins. The blood of Jesus does.
Our tears may flow. But our tears do not cleanse our sins. His blood does.

Sometimes we are shocked at what we did or were capable of.
This is because we may still have trust in ourselves that we're not so bad.
Failure can be exremely educational to make one realize-"Lord Jesus, I can't make it without you. I need You Lord moment to moment."
 
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zoidar

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Thankyou for sharing that testimony.

It is not unusual that young Christian (or not so young) fall into bad sin for which she or he is much ashamed.
God knew what we were capable of doing quite well before we were even born.
Here is where you put your trust in His foreknowledge to positive work for you.
God made more than ample provision for your failure as a Christian before your were ever alive to stumble.

Sometimes God forgives us but we have hard time forgiving ourselves.
Know that that blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin - private sins, public sins, forgivable sins, unforgivable sins, whatever sins - the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from every sin. (1 John 1:7)

Put that in your predestination cannon and fire it at Satan's head.

God does not want us to grovel for years in regret. He wants us to BELIEVE.
Time does not cleanse our sins. The blood of Jesus does.
Our tears may flow. But our tears do not cleanse our sins. His blood does.

Sometimes we are shocked at what we did or were capable of.
This is because we may still have trust in ourselves that we're not so bad.
Failure can be exremely educational to make one realize-"Lord Jesus, I can't make it without you. I need You Lord moment to moment."
Some things don't change even you are forgiven. I will give you a picture. It's just like, if you are no longer a virgin, you are no longer a virgin. You can do nothing about it. Losing your virginity as an unbeliever is one thing, as a believer is quite another. I mean of course if you are not married.
 
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oikonomia

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Some things don't change even you are forgiven. I will give you a picture. It's just like, if you are no longer a virgin, you are no longer a virgin. You can do nothing about it. Losing your virginity as an unbeliever is one thing, as a believer is quite another. I mean of course if you are not married.
This is a very big subject. And I fear I might write too long of a response.

It is true that forgiveness may not save us from certain consequences elsewhere.
Many a Christian incarcerated or unwed parent Christian realizes this.

Then we have the Bible to tell us of David.
We all know about David's adultery and murder. And we know how he suffered in his family afterwards.

But I tell you our Lord Jesus Christ until the very end of the Bible is not ashamed to associate Himself with David!
I Jesus have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches.
I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright morning star. (Rev. 22:16)


Sometimes when suffering the consequences of a sin God will encourage the regreting one
that He is still in full control. The Zarephathian widow that Elijah miraculously provided wealth for
had her only son die. She thought of it as God reminding her of some past iniquity.

Then after these things the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, became ill; and his illness was so severe that there was no breath left in him. And she said to Elijah, What have I done to you, O man of God, that you have come to me to recall my iniquity and kill my son? (1 Kings 17:17,18)

God had Elijah raise the child back to life for the woman. Though he had already done a mighty miracle for her this time
she was convinced he truly was a man of God.

And Jehovah listened to the voice of Elijah; and the child’s soul came into him again, and he lived.
And Elijah took the child and brought him down from the upper room into the house and gave him to his mother.

And Elijah said, See, your son is alive. And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that you are a man of God and that the word of Jehovah in your mouth is truth. (1 Kings 17:22-24)

I think God allowed this to happen to free the woman from her excessive regret of her past sins. I think God did this to
get her attention that He still loved her and was in full control of her "life after failure."

My feeling is that a twin event to this (two's a testimony) happens with the Shunamite woman whose miracle son
died and was brought back to life this time by Elisha the prophet.

And he [Elisha] said, At this time next year you shall embrace a son. And she said, No, my lord, O man of God, do not deceive your servant. And the woman conceived and bore a son at that time the next year, as Elisha had told her. (2 Kings 4:17-18)
Then the miracle child grew to be a young man who suddenly died working in the field. And the dispairing woman interpreted
this "taking back" of the miracle son as the prophet deceiving her, perhaps as discipline for some past sin.

And when she came to the man of God on the mountain, she clung to his feet. And Gehazi approached to push her away, but the man of God said, Leave her alone; for she is bitter in soul, and Jehovah has hidden the matter from me and has not told me about it.
And she said, Did I ask my lord for a son? Did I not say, Do not mislead me? (2 Kings 4:27,28)


She would not open her heart in this matter to anyone except the prophet personally.
My opinion is that probably she also thought she was still being punished for some past secret deep failure.

The lesson in both of these accounts I think is God reassuring some believer that He is still fully in blessed control
though they may be under circumstances for past sins.

So true, even though we are forgiven we may suffer consequences of our past. Yet the Bible has ample
evidence that this does not hinder God's marvelous providence and shepherding of us into His will.
Peter's name is on the foundation of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:14).
Thoughout the New Testament Peter makes many mistakes.

For those too much thinking God is still punishing them through their circumstances, the Psalmist says.
He will not always contend with us, / Nor will He keep His anger forever.
He has not dealt with us according to our sins, / Nor has He recompensed us according to our iniquities.
For as high as the heavens are above the earth, / So great is His lovingkindness upon those who fear Him. (Psa. 103:9-11)


Let me stop here. There is quite much more I'd like to say about this big subject.
Thanks for your word there.
 
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oikonomia

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It is a good point about being "in Christ" having different applications in the NT.
On my list of studies I want to pursue is now examining all the "in Christ" passages.

And you already know that my advice is to always just give a believing "Amen" to the statements of the Bible
without feeling the obligation to rid the mind of all contradictions.

Other significant "in Christ" passages:

You therefore, my child, be empowered in the grace which is in Christ Jesus; (2 Tim. 2:7)
The enabling power of grace is in Christ Jesus. It is therefore in Christ the apostle encourages
Timothy to get. Or at least he reminds Timothy that it is in this realm the empowering, enabling
ability is.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the chosen ones, that they themselves also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (2 Tim. 2:10)
Paul underwent much difficulty, troubles, and problems in his life of ministry. Why did he endure it? Why did he not just
say "Well, God will save whoever He has elected and predestinated to be saved. What need for me to go through all this
excessive and bothering suffering?"

He endured that his audiences and ones he prayed for all, to obtain the salvation in Christ with eternal glory. Amen.
He knew they had to be in this realm for this to occur.
 
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zoidar

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It is a good point about being "in Christ" having different applications in the NT.
On my list of studies I want to pursue is now examining all the "in Christ" passages.

And you already know that my advice is to always just give a believing "Amen" to the statements of the Bible
without feeling the obligation to rid the mind of all contradictions.

Other significant "in Christ" passages:

You therefore, my child, be empowered in the grace which is in Christ Jesus; (2 Tim. 2:7)
The enabling power of grace is in Christ Jesus. It is therefore in Christ the apostle encourages
Timothy to get. Or at least he reminds Timothy that it is in this realm the empowering, enabling
ability is.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the chosen ones, that they themselves also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (2 Tim. 2:10)
Paul underwent much difficulty, troubles, and problems in his life of ministry. Why did he endure it? Why did he not just
say "Well, God will save whoever He has elected and predestinated to be saved. What need for me to go through all this
excessive and bothering suffering?"

He endured that his audiences and ones he prayed for all, to obtain the salvation in Christ with eternal glory. Amen.
He knew they had to be in this realm for this to occur.
Do you know any place in the Bible where "in Christ" refers to before someone has faith (except for possibly Eph 1:4).
 
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oikonomia

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Do you know any place in the Bible where "in Christ" refers to before someone has faith (except for possibly Eph 1:4).
It would take some work to find something like that which I doubt exists.

However, I have a verse which I believe means that there is a sanctifying process of the Holy Spirit
LEADING or DIRECTING the chosen one unto redemption through Christ's blood.

Chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father in the sanctification of the Spirit unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. (1 Pet. 1:2)

Footnote 2(1) of this verse in the Recovery Versions reads -

Sanctification of the Spirit here is not the sanctification of the Spirit which is after justification through the redemption
of Christ, as revealed in Rom. 6:19, 22; 15:16. Here, sanctification of the Spirit, as the main emphasis in this chapter, an emphasis
on holiness (vv.15-16), is before the obedience of faith in Christ's redemption, that is, before justification through Christ's redemption
( 1 Cor. 6:11), indicating that the believers' obedience unto faith in Christ results from the Spirit's sanctifying work. The Spirit's
sanctfication in its two aspects is inclusively revealed in 2 Thess. 2:13, which is for the full salvation of God to His chosen people.
God's full salvation is carried out in the sphere of the Spirit's sanctification.

Second Thessalonians 2:13
in the RcV reads -

But we ought to thank God always concerning you, brothers beloved of the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth,
 
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oikonomia

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The very last verse in the Bible is instructive. After God has unvieled the future in many regards and given us
a glimpse even into eternity He closes the sixty six books of the Bible with this-

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints. Amen. (Rev. 22:21)

This is the final word of the entire Bible's revelation. After seeing all the things and learning all the prophetic things to come
we still need the empowering grace. Only the inner empowering grace of Christ our Lord can equip us to live unto God.
Only the Lord's grace like power steering - a combination of our coordintation with Him within us, can enable us to
walk according to His will. He must live within to allow us to participate in all the blessings of Christ's exhaustless wealth.

The Triune God must flow into us as grace to be everything we need to experience the fulfillment of His eternal purpose.
Only His upholding and empowering grace can deliver us to this absolute satisfaction and complete rest in for eternity in Christ.


Paul's last written word in the New Testament is similar. It is like telling Timothy "Whatever else never forget, always remember, the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ is with you. He is the Lord living in your spirit."

The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you. (2 Tim. 4:22)


So whatever else we know or have seen or will happen, We must be strengthed by the Spirit INTO our innermost being
where Christ is living in us.

 
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John Mullally

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It would take some work to find something like that which I doubt exists.

However, I have a verse which I believe means that there is a sanctifying process of the Holy Spirit
LEADING or DIRECTING the chosen one unto redemption through Christ's blood.

Chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father in the sanctification of the Spirit unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. (1 Pet. 1:2)
Note that this verse uses the term "foreknowledge" instead of "foreordination". Who is being chosen? How were they chosen? What were they chosen to?

Peter, James and John were apostles to the Jews while Paul and Barnabas were apostles to the Gentiles. (Galatians 2:7-9) The greeting in James 1:1 states: “James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.” It is possible that Peter may have had the same audience in mind, namely the scattered Jewish Christian believers. Being chosen “to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood” likely refers to the physical toll of evangelism. The fact that they were driven out of their home land and “scattered” abroad as “aliens” would make them like Daniel, strategically placed, according to the “foreknowledge of God the Father” who knows best how to utilize His servants in the ministry of the gospel. The practical application is that whenever we face trials, we need to look to God, to see how He may be working in the midst of our challenges.
 
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John Mullally

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Do you know any place in the Bible where "in Christ" refers to before someone has faith (except for possibly Eph 1:4).
In Romans 16:7, Paul greets a couple of believers who He says were "in Christ" before He was. This means that the point in time at which people are "in Christ" is knowable to believers, This point in time is identified in Ephesians 1:13 and John 5:24 as when we believe.

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,​
John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.​
 
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zoidar

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In Romans 16:7, Paul greets a couple of believers who He says were "in Christ" before He was. This means that the point in time at which people are "in Christ" is knowable to believers, This point in time is identified in Ephesians 1:13 and John 5:24 as when we believe.

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,​
John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.​
Very interesting translation you got there of Eph 1:13.
 
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John Mullally

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Very interesting translation you got there of Eph 1:13.
Its the NIV, which is the default translation in www.biblehub.com. And as I discover, the wording of the NIV translation does support my point more plainly than other popular English translations.
 
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Brightfame52

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So we know that Christs death wasn't for all without exception when we honestly consider Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Understand, those who had been reconciled to God while enemies, the promise unto them is that they shall be saved [future tense passive voice] by Christ's Life !

Now since we know scripture doesn't teach that all without exception will be saved, because Jesus says some shall not see life, which is future tense Jn 3:36, hence Christ couldn't have died for them, or His word is false and untrue ! 22
 
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zoidar

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So we know that Christs death wasn't for all without exception when we honestly consider Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Understand, those who had been reconciled to God while enemies, the promise unto them is that they shall be saved [future tense passive voice] by Christ's Life !

Now since we know scripture doesn't teach that all without exception will be saved, because Jesus says some shall not see life, which is future tense Jn 3:36, hence Christ couldn't have died for them, or His word is false and untrue ! 22
Where does the Bible say all Jesus died for will be saved? Please quote a few verses.
 
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