Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Psalm 27]

H

Where does the Bible say all Jesus died for will be saved? Please quote a few verses.

Hi Zoidar. hope you're OK.
fight the good fight dear brother

 

[Brightfame52]

Now Christ's death for the Elect does bring about their subjective reconciliation to God [conversion] 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 22

 

[oikonomia]

Now Christ's death for the Elect does bring about their subjective reconciliation to God [conversion] 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Peter exhorts his audience to go on to live the new life. They should not be conformed to their former lusts of ignorance.
As children of obedience, do not be fashioned according to the former lusts in your ignorance; (1 Pet. 1:14)

So further reconciling is in order.

Peter exhorts his audience to GROW into salvation through the drinking of the milk of the word of God.
As newborn babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow unto salvation, (2:2)

So grow[ing] unto salvation involves further reconciliation.

Peter says the saved are in the process of "being built up" as a living spiritual house.
You yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house (1 Pet. 2:5a)

So more building up together means more reconcilation.

Peter exhorts these redeemed ones to exercise to turn away from evil.
And let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it; (1 Pet. 3:11)

So as they learn more and more to turn to Christ from evil more reconcilation takes place.

All these exhortations and more are indications of growing, maturing, developing in the Christian walk
are a part of Christ bringing us to God. This is advancing in subjection reconcilation once objective reconciliation is secured.

And these exhortations are perfectly in tune with Paul entreating the Justified, Redeemed, and Reconciled Corinthians
to be further reconciled to God.

On behalf of Christ then we are ambassadors, as God entreats you through us;
we beseech you on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God. (2 Cor. 5:20)

. . . we also entreat you not to receive the grace of God in vain; (6:1)

 

[Brightfame52]

Peter exhorts his audience to go on to live the new life. They should not be conformed to their former lusts of ignorance.
As children of obedience, do not be fashioned according to the former lusts in your ignorance; (1 Pet. 1:14)

So further reconciling is in order.

Peter exhorts his audience to GROW into salvation through the drinking of the milk of the word of God.
As newborn babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow unto salvation, (2:2)

So grow[ing] unto salvation involves further reconciliation.

Peter says the saved are in the process of "being built up" as a living spiritual house.
You yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house (1 Pet. 2:5a)

So more building up together means more reconcilation.

Peter exhorts these redeemed ones to exercise to turn away from evil.
And let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it; (1 Pet. 3:11)

So as they learn more and more to turn to Christ from evil more reconcilation takes place.

All these exhortations and more are indications of growing, maturing, developing in the Christian walk
are a part of Christ bringing us to God. This is advancing in subjection reconcilation once objective reconciliation is secured.

And these exhortations are perfectly in tune with Paul entreating the Justified, Redeemed, and Reconciled Corinthians
to be further reconciled to God.

On behalf of Christ then we are ambassadors, as God entreats you through us;
we beseech you on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God. (2 Cor. 5:20)

. . . we also entreat you not to receive the grace of God in vain; (6:1)

Those whom Christ died for will be brought to God in a conversion experience, reconciled 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[oikonomia]

Those whom Christ died for will be brought to God in a conversion experience, reconciled 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

After conversion there still remains the need to "grow unto salvation." (1 Pet. 2:2)

It is good to stand on the finished work of Christ but instantaneous full grown Christians is a myth.

 

[Brightfame52]

After conversion there still remains the need to "grow unto salvation." (1 Pet. 2:2)

It is good to stand on the finished work of Christ but instantaneous full grown Christians is a myth.

Thats a different subject, however Christs finished work provides for that as well. Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

After conversion there still remains the need to "grow unto salvation." (1 Pet. 2:2)

It is good to stand on the finished work of Christ but instantaneous full grown Christians is a myth.

Amen. And those who are over zealous at the first, with a zeale that is more personal emotion, than of the Spirit, will endure as a flame for awhile, but flame out and fall, because they were not relying all on Christ. (I know, I did this at the first!)

There are several scriptures that go along with this doctrine:
Philippians 2:12-13
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure"

Romans 11:19-22,
"Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

1 peter 1:22-23
"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

1 John 3:2-11,
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another."

All this to say, it is an ongoing continuance in the Word and in the faith, a growth into Him, going on to perfection, that is, spiritual maturity

 

[Brightfame52]

2 Cor 5:17-19

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

There's a reconciled world, a world of individuals who were reconciled to God, not by their faith or repentance, or baptism, nor anything they did, but solely by Jesus Christ, which means His Person and Work on their behalf. He reconciled this world to God in His very own Person !

Now exactly what world is this ? Is it everyone without exception ? Absolutely not, but its a world that is in Christ, for God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. There's a world of people God had Chosen for Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him[Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God was in [the sphere of] Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,

This reconciliation did not occur outside of the sphere of Christ ! 23

 

[zoidar]

2 Cor 5:17-19

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

There's a reconciled world, a world of individuals who were reconciled to God, not by their faith or repentance, or baptism, nor anything they did, but solely by Jesus Christ, which means His Person and Work on their behalf. He reconciled this world to God in His very own Person !

Now exactly what world is this ? Is it everyone without exception ? Absolutely not, but its a world that is in Christ, for God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. There's a world of people God had Chosen for Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him[Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God was in [the sphere of] Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,

This reconciliation did not occur outside of the sphere of Christ ! 23

You do see 2 Cor 5:17 speaks about born again believers, Christians with faith in Christ?

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
— 2 Corinthians 5:17

If a person is in Christ he is born again and is a person of faith. You are becoming part of the body of Christ through faith, which is the same thing as being in Christ.

 

[zoidar]

Those whom Christ died for will be brought to God in a conversion experience, reconciled 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

I think you have the same misunderstanding here as in many other verses. Christ "brings believers", gives access to people of faith to God, not unbelievers.

"That he might bring us to God. The Vatican and other manuscripts read "you." St. Peter opens out one of the deeper aspects of the death of Christ. The veil that hid the Holiest was then rent in twain, and believers were invited and encouraged to draw near into the immediate presence of God. The verb used here is προσάγειν; the corresponding substantive (προσαγωγή) occurs in Ephesians 2:18; Ephesians 3:12; also in Romans 5:2. In those places it is rendered "access" - we have access to the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ."
- Pulpit commentary

"For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father"

"[Christ Jesus our Lord] in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him."

"through whom [Jesus Christ] also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God"

 

[setst777]

Do you know any place in the Bible where "in Christ" refers to before someone has faith (except for possibly Eph 1:4).

"Ephesians 1:4" is written to “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1), the “we” who had before hoped in Christ, having believed (Ephesians 1:13). It is these faithful ones who are "in Christ."

 

[BBAS 64]

"Ephesians 1:4" is written to “To the saints,” who are “the faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1), the “we” who had before hoped in Christ, having believed (Ephesians 1:13). It is these faithful ones who are "in Christ."

Good day,

Notice the "time" referenced here "Before"

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

It is true the letter is written to beliers and not unbelievers The "us" would refer to believers (now).

But before the foundation of the world there were no believing ones.

In Him

Bill

 

[oikonomia]

2 Cor 5:17-19

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It is extremely important to proclaim the finished work of Christ as you do.
In no way will I discourage Christians from standing on the accomplishments of Christ.

Amen! If anyone is in Christ there is a new creation. Old things are passed away. Behold they have become new.
So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, they have become new. (2 Cor. 5:17)

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

I know you have disimssed me as a blasphemer and rejector of the truth of God.
That doesn't matter for God knows all.

Once again as I said, We Christians should always believe the word of God and give our heartfelt "Amen!" to whatever it says.
That is WHATEVER . . . it says. So once again, it is superb to stand on the word of the Bible.
But all things are out from God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Christ and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (v.18)

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Amen to the verse 19. And obviously the ministry of reconciliation has not ENDED for Paul and his co-workers at the conversion of
his audience. Obviously Paul is speaking to those Justified, Redemed, Reconciled and placed in a postition of such for ETERNITY.

And he is STILL towards them as an ambassador entreating them (THOUGH THEY BE JUSTIFIED) to be further reconciled to God.
On behalf of Christ then we are ambassadors, as God entreats you through us; we beseech you on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God. (v.20)

There's a reconciled world, a world of individuals who were reconciled to God, not by their faith or repentance, or baptism, nor anything they did, but solely by Jesus Christ, which means His Person and Work on their behalf. He reconciled this world to God in His very own Person !

You are shortsighted if you think of only individual salvation of individuals is important to God.
You are ignorant of God's purpose to build the church. And for that Paul established churches where Christ could
grow in believers building them up in transformation into God's living temple.

I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused the GROWTH.
So then neither is he who plants anything nor he who waters,
but God who causes the growth. (1 Cor. 3:6,7)

The more GROWTH of God's life within the saved the MORE reconciliation to His purpose
beyond just forgiving individuals for individual blessing.

Here the church in Corinth was a FARM [cultivated land] for growing God's life in people.
The more they grew in the divine life the more the building of God was being built up.

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s cultivated land, God’s building. (1 Cor. 3:9)

This reconciliation did not occur outside of the sphere of Christ ! 23

And in Christ is the growth of God for the building up of the dwelling place of God in spirit.

In this case Paul addesses the church in Ephesus. But the purpose of God to
grow divine life in man for the building of His living spiritual habitation is the same.

Being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone;
In whom [in Christ] all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord;
In whom [in Christ] you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit. (Eph. 2:20-22)

You Brightframe are shortsighted about this. And only individual selection for individual salvation
is all you were taught. Being shortsighted then there is scant appreciation for
reconciliation in terms of growth, transformation, conformation, building up into a corporate expression of Christ in man.

Here again something you never learned because you know only individual election.
There is a higher realm of reconciliation of growth into one corporate "full-grown man".

Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, That we may be no longer little children tossed by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching in the sleight of men, in craftiness with a view to a system of error,

But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ,
Out from whom all the Body, being joined together and being knit together through every joint of the rich supply and through the operation in the measure of each one part, causes the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love. (Eph. 4:13-16)

With this eternal purpose in mind Paul beseeches the saved to be further reconciled to God and not to receive
His grace in vain.

On behalf of Christ then we are ambassadors, as God entreats you through us; we beseech you on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God. (2 Cor. 5:20) . . . And working together with Him, we also entreat you not to receive the grace of God in vain; (6:1)

 

[Brightfame52]

Enemies of God by nature

All of Gods Elect, Sheep are by nature like all others enemies of God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

However the huge difference is, Gods Elect even in this sinful condition, they have been Justified, washed in the Blood of Christ and are clothed with His righteousness, whereas the non elect are not, they are under Gods condemnation and wrath ! 23

 

[oikonomia]

Brightframe52 informs -
However the huge difference is, Gods Elect even in this sinful condition, they have been Justified, washed in the Blood of Christ and are clothed with His righteousness, whereas the non elect are not, they are under Gods condemnation and wrath ! 23

Was this suppose to be something most Christian posters here were not aware of?

Brightfame52 accuses me of comitting blasphemy. No retraction has come. Brightframe52 must still consider
me as a blasphemer. Nothing more he will discuss with me.

But - And indeed all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. (2 Tim. 3;12)

 

[zoidar]

Enemies of God by nature

All of Gods Elect, Sheep are by nature like all others enemies of God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

However the huge difference is, Gods Elect even in this sinful condition, they have been Justified, washed in the Blood of Christ and are clothed with His righteousness, whereas the non elect are not, they are under Gods condemnation and wrath ! 23

The Bible says everyone is a child of wrath before coming to faith.

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
— Ephesians 2:3-8

 

[Brightfame52]

The Bible says everyone is a child of wrath before coming to faith.

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
— Ephesians 2:3-8

Too bad you don't see the difference

 

[zoidar]

Good day,

Notice the "time" referenced here "Before"

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

It is true the letter is written to beliers and not unbelievers The "us" would refer to believers (now).

But before the foundation of the world there were no believing ones.

In Him

Bill

I don't understand how you mean God chose us IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world. You mean God chose those who are in Christ now before the foundation of the world that they would come to be in Christ?

 

[zoidar]

Too bad you don't see the difference

I have not said whether I see a difference or not. What I said is all are children of wrath before faith. Because it's what the Bible say.

 

[Brightfame52]

One of the blessed truths about reconciliation by the death of Christ which men naturally overlook and even ignore is the that being reconciled to God by the death of His Son Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Its relevant with non imputation of sin 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Thats why when sinners Christ died for are still in nature enemies with God, sinful and ungodly, that's why they are still reconciled to God, because all their sinfulness, disobedience, unbelief, rebellion isn't charged, imputed to them, instead the verdict for them is reconciled to God !