Reasonable adjustments

[Catherineanne]

I agree.

Also, the issue of mental illness and demon possession may be more complicated than simplistic answers such as never equating demonic possession and mental illness.

No, it is not complicated. If we would not equate cancer with demon possession then we ought not to equate mental illness with it either. Mental illness is not a second class illness; it is the same as any other kind. If we would not equate dialysis, or heart disease, or a broken leg with demon possession, then we certainly ought not to do so with depression, or schizophrenia, or DID, or anything else.

There is no excuse for making such a connection; none at all. None. Such a connection, made today in 2016 is abhorrent, it is barbaric and it is medieval thinking. There is no justification whatever for making it. All illness is a product of our fallen world; none of it is a product of demon possession.

I hope I have made myself clear.

If we have psychic pain then it is easy to hear things the wrong way.

At the same time I can see Catherine is very concerned about stigma. Maybe she should have a talk with the pastor about her concerns and needs directly instead of using the issue of what is and is not OK to pray about. I also struggle a lot at any church because I have Asperger's and struggle with depression and anxiety as well, I'm broke financially and somewhat isolated from the wider culture- it's hard to relate to anyone when your experiences of the world are so different. You can bet that creates a feeling of alienation. But I don't feel ashamed too much anymore, it's not something I struggle with very much. If God is with us, who can be against us?
.

I will certainly talk if I am listened to. The day the Vicar came here he was in no mood to listen; he had already chosen his position, and it was one of win: lose. With me on the losing side.

I am looking for win:win for one simple reason; when it is a matter of win:lose I always end up being the one who loses. I have lost the support of my Vicar when my mum has a potentially terminal condition. I will find this very difficult to forgive.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why is it barbaric? Maybe you have a peculiar idea of demons as out of a Hollywood horror movie or the Salem witch trials. Some Christians accept them as real without giving up spiritual sobriety.

Physical illnesses can have spiritual components, certainly. All illness is a result of a fallen world, after all, the fallen world is in turn the result of spiritual forces. People with heart disease or kidney disease may have those problems as a result of passions or sins as much as they may have them as the result of genetics. The important thing in the end is that we find healing for our whole persons. This isn't a case of "either/or", but "both".

I am not equating mental illness with demon possession. I'm saying a mentally ill person is a human being, and every human being is capable of becoming a slave to sin and the Devil, and in some cases, that can even result in a person's personality being dominated partially or completely by these influences.

 

[Catherineanne]

Why is it barbaric? Maybe you have a peculiar idea of demons as out of a Hollywood horror movie or the Salem witch trials. Some Christians accept them as real without giving up spiritual sobriety.

Physical illnesses can have spiritual components, certainly. All illness is a result of a fallen world, after all, the fallen world is in turn the result of spiritual forces. People with heart disease or kidney disease may have those problems as a result of passions or sins as much as they may have them as the result of genetics. The important thing in the end is that we find healing for our whole persons. This isn't a case of "either/or", but "both".

I am not equating mental illness with demon possession. I'm saying a mentally ill person is a human being, and every human being is capable of becoming a slave to sin and the Devil, and in some cases, that can even result in a person's personality being dominated partially or completely by these influences.

Can you please take that discussion to another thread? I have explained patiently enough more than once, in this thread and in PM, and I think that is sufficient. This thread is to help me cope with the loss of my church & the potential loss of my mother.

If you can't agree with what I say then that is up to you, but I don't want this thread derailed further by your nonsensical equation of demons with illness. With all due respect I can do without it.

 

[FireDragon76]

OK, I will try to do that. It does seem like you are dealing with a lot, and I'm sorry and I'll try to remember you and your mom in my prayers. The way you organized your thoughts is hard for me to follow.

I have to agree with Atletams. We may be desperate to go to church and receive everything we need individually but pastors have to balance the needs of sometimes hundreds of people. And you were giving him a very tall order to fill, one that might infringe on the liberty of others in their particular understanding of the Bible and their prayer needs. That doesn't excuse his impatience with you... but in the end he's only a human being and he may feel just as helpless as you do, but not very good at expressing it.

Any time I hear something offensive at church I just make a habit to way a few days and think about it, pray about it, before I do anything. I pray for the ability to look at the problem in the most loving way possible. Usually, I get a new perspective on things that at least lets me approach the pastor, if need be, with questions that lead to a productive dialogue.

 

[Catherineanne]

Update. My mother has been admitted to hospital again. We are waiting to hear whether she is well enough for surgery this time or not.

She asked for the Vicar yesterday while she and I were at A&E, and he came and was very kind. As noted above, he is not a bad man.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Update. My mother has been admitted to hospital again. We are waiting to hear whether she is well enough for surgery this time or not.

She asked for the Vicar yesterday while she and I were at A&E, and he came and was very kind. As noted above, he is not a bad man.

Prayers for your mother.

 

[Catherineanne]

Prayers for your mother.

Thank you, Anastasia; I very much appreciate your prayers.

Mum is not well enough for surgery at present; the Drs are hoping that medication will do something. After that we will have to wait and see.

 

[~Anastasia~]

You're very welcome. It is an honor to pray for others.

God be with you both.

 

[Catherineanne]

Not sure if anyone is still following this thread, but my mum is continuing to improve, gradually. We seem to have passed the crisis, this time. The medium to long term outlook is not so good, but she is still with us, and improving.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Not sure if anyone is still following this thread, but my mum is continuing to improve, gradually. We seem to have passed the crisis, this time. The medium to long term outlook is not so good, but she is still with us, and improving.

Glory to God!

Continuing prayers ...

 

[Paidiske]

Still following, and glad to hear your mum is doing a bit better.

Sorry I've been quiet, this week has been crazy-busy for me in real life, but I haven't entirely disappeared!

 

[Catherineanne]

Thanks, both.

Mum is home from hospital again; my brother brought her yesterday. She has to have daily injections, but is happy enough with that; at least she is home. This is good timing for us as I am off to my daughter's graduation; staying away tonight, graduation in the morning (MA).

So a little bit of silver among those clouds, at least.

 

[Tigger45]

Amen!

 

[Paidiske]

How are you going, CatherineAnne? How was the graduation?

 

[Catherineanne]

How are you going, CatherineAnne? How was the graduation?

Thanks for asking, Paidiske. I appreciate your continuing concern.

I have heard nothing from the Vicar; he was away at Synod some of the time. The rest of the time, who knows?

The graduation was perfect, thank you. A really wonderful day at a first class university; below are some pictures of RoHo. The graduation took place in the chapel, and I was sitting in the front row, about half way along. It was a truly perfect day; so many young people full of hope and promise for the future.

I have been sorting out a date for my car to be serviced, and for an engineer to fit a new boiler in our house. Now all that is done I am about to go and see how mum is doing since I last saw her, so more later.

Thanks again.

https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/...Z0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Royal+Holloway&fr=mcafee

 

[Paidiske]

Wow! That is some serious architecture!

 

[Catherineanne]

Wow! That is some serious architecture!

Yes, it is totally superb! Ranked 17th in the world, with world class research happening there; some of it by my daughter. It hardly seems possible.

Anyone with an hour to spare can watch the video.

https://www.royalholloway.ac.uk/stu...n/summer-graduation/video/monday-10-30am.aspx

 

[~Anastasia~]

That is a beautiful chapel! It's an interesting setup. The seating (pews?) run two deep along the sides, facing the aisle?

The architecture and the painting are very beautiful. I can imagine with a choir it would be impressive.

 

[Fish and Bread]

That picture looks almost identical to something I saw on The Tudors (A dramatic television series based on a fictionalized account of the time period involving Henry VIII and such- first aired on one of the major premium cable outlets in the US and now available on Netflix and the like). I wonder if there is a famous Church of England building set up like that somewhere that other buildings draw on for inspiration. I also think I may have seen Roman Catholic monastery chapels depicted like that at times.

 

[Catherineanne]

That picture looks almost identical to something I saw on The Tudors (A dramatic television series based on a fictionalized account of the time period involving Henry VIII and such- first aired on one of the major premium cable outlets in the US and now available on Netflix and the like). I wonder if there is a famous Church of England building set up like that somewhere that other buildings draw on for inspiration. I also think I may have seen Roman Catholic monastery chapels depicted like that at times.

I think a lot of chapels were like that in former times. The chapel used for the original English Parliament had facing pews, from which we get the concept of left & right wing politics.