really tough issue - homosexuality

[VelvetCrush]

my dad (guardian) is gay, and he and his partner of seven years are planning to get married next spring in hawaii. i love them both, but i'm not sure if what they are doing is right. for one, my grandparents are really against it, as is most of the family. i think he ought to wait until they come to terms with it, or have a small ceremony and not insist that they go. also, i don't know if what they are doing is right, because they want a wedding with a bible and traditional vows and stuff, which i think goes against christianity. they found a minister to do the ceremony, but my very religious grandparents are totally going crazy from it.
the worst problem is that i know my guardian isn't faithful to his partner, and i don't want them to get hurt later or diseased, etc. also, i really don't want to participate in the wedding, for all reasons, and i don't know what i should do. he's not my real father (long story), but i've lived with him since age 3. i don't know how to choose between him, and my whole life, clubs, etc...and the rest of my family and what i think is right. help! i really need some suggestions on how to deal.
pm me if you need more details..they were too much to mention here.

 

[brindlepit]

Wow - don't know how to answer that one.

All I have is for you. I know it's going to be extremely hard, but love your father (guardian) even through all his mistakes. Let him know how you feel - dislike and love. You can always disagree with anyone, but when it's you family, they make it hard - unapprochable. Don't let this sway you - stay stong in the Lord, pray for His wisdom. Even though your father is making his decision, don't allow his decision to wrap your life up. Move on, learn, and keep going forward.

I used and drank for a long time. I'm a broncial asthmatic and the Doc told me if I ever smoked, I would die really young. Nothing anyone said could stop me from smoking (everything) or drinking, I had to learn on my own, through a million bad decisions, what was really important. Some people wont learn and it could take a disease to teach them. Remember, you can never go back on a decision - make them wisely.

Strength, Love and Prayer.

 

[GodOwnsMe]

Father please give VelvetCrush wisdom about what to do, direct their steps and do the best for her father and his partner. In Jesus' name. Amen

 

[seebs]

If you want some advice on this, one site to look at is:

http://www.reluctantjourney.co.uk/

It's a site written by a Methodist minister about interactions between Christianity and homosexuality, and it's worth a read, even if you don't end up agreeing with his opinions.

 

[forjesus]

What they are doing is wrong. Its against everything God said. I am sorry for your pain, and I pray you find comfort, but this is disgusting in my eyes and Gods.

 

[wvmtnkid]

Hi VelvetCrush~

You are right in your thoughts and feelings that homosexuality is wrong. There will be those that tell you that is not the case, but from a Christian standpoint it is wrong. I don't feel God would honor a homosexual marriage and I must say that I am wondering about a minister that would perform one. However, that being said, hope is not lost for you or your guardian. Jesus Christ offers hope to all lost in sin. As a Christian, I consider homosexuality a sin, but it is a sin that can and will be forgiven. Jesus calls us to love the person but hate the sin. You can love your guardian and not be in agreement with what he is doing or his lifestyle. You talk of not wanting to make a choice between your guardian and your life. Unfortunately, your guardian cannot provide for you eternal life, which only Jesus can. I pray that you will be able to make that important decision, to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour if you have not. From there, what you can do is to be an example of Christ's love to your guardian, realizing that one day there will be a judgement and we will all be called to make an account for the choices we made in this life.

I just pray God will give you strength to stand firm in your convictions and to give you the guidance and wisdom that you need to face this situation.

 

[Gerry]

I am sorry Velvet. You say you are not sure if what they are doing is right. But God is very sure it is wrong. He condemns this activity in the strongest possible way. He destroyed two cities in the OT for this very reason. And nature itself tell you God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve. God LOVES the sinner but hates the sin. There is no way He will bless such a union. You will be right to have no part in it.

If you are a born again Christian, which I do not know if you are or not, get into God's Word. You will quickly see how God feels about this sin.

wvtnkid has given you some good advice.

 

[VelvetCrush]

i don't know if i'm born again, but i do believe in god, probably in a different way then some. my church says homosexuality is okay and welcomes homosexual couples, but the rest of my family really feels this is wrong. thanks for advice, i am praying and trying to figure things out. quentin, my guardian, is certainly not calling off the wedding so i'm not going to get to escape choosing.

 

[seebs]

Just a note - a few tens of millions of people, studying God's word, have come to about the same conclusion your church has. This isn't an easy question; if it were, there wouldn't be sincere debate among Christians about it, but the debate is there.

Do your best. If you end up wrong, well, that happens sometimes; God will forgive you, as long as you have faith, and you're really seeking His will.

 

[Mister]

Hawaii's added an amendment to their constitution outlawing same sex marriages, the vote was 2-1 in 1998. I'm not sure how they plan on getting married there. I may be missing somthing somewhere but when I read about that I thought that left Hawaii no longer a place for gays to get married. Vermont has a union law however. It allows homosexuals most of the rights of a married couple but they don't call it that. I don't think however other states are required to recognize this union despite the "full faith and credit" clause, at least this issue is still unclear. I don't know if I'm missing a step some where still allowing it. If some one knows please share it.

Mister

 

[Mr.Cheese]

I could tell you how I feel about all this, but how I feel and the right thing for you to do may be different. You're in a hard spot no matter how you look at it. SO I'll give you one of these: *hug*

 

[Gerry]

Since it was mentioned that "sincere debate" goes on among Christians, I would respectfully submit a single verse (though there are many many more) from a variety of English translation readily available on my PC, showing where GOD stands on this "debate".

1Co 6:9: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,” KJV

6:9: “Have you forgotten that the kingdom of God will never belong to the wicked? Don't be under any illusion - neither the impure, the idolater or the adulterer; neither the effeminate, the pervert…” JBP

1Co 6:9: “Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit God's Kingdom? Cherish no delusion here. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime,” WNT

1Co 6:9: “have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,” YLT

1Co 6:9: “Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,” ASV

1Co 6:9: “Do ye not know that unrighteous persons shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,” Darby

1Co 6:9: “You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,” ISV

1Co 6:9: “Or do you not know that unjust ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,” LITV

1Co 6:9: “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,” RSV

1Co 6:9: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,” Webster

1 Corinthians 6
9 “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders” NIV-UK

1 Corinthians 6
9 “Or (1) do you not know that the unrighteous will not (2) inherit the kingdom of God? (3) Do not be deceived; (4) neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [1] effeminate, nor homosexuals,” NASB

1 Corinthians 6
9”Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,” AMP

1 Corinthians 6
9”Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,” NLT

1 Corinthians 6
9”Do you not know that the unrighteous[1] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,” ESV

1 Corinthians 6
9 “Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual” CEV

1 Corinthians 6
9 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[1] nor sodomites,” NKJV

1 Corinthians 6
9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,” KJ21

1 Corinthians 6
9 “Whether ye know not, that wicked men shall not wield the kingdom of God? Do not ye err; neither lechers, neither men that serve maumets [neither men serving to idols], neither adulterers, neither lechers against kind, neither they that do lechery with men,” WYC

1 Corinthians
6:9: “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,” HCSV

Hebrew Names Version of World English Bible

1 Corinthians 6
6:9: “Or don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,” HNVofWEB

1 Corinthians 6
6:9: “Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers:” Douay-Rheims

1 Corinthians 6
6:9: “Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts” GNT

1 Corinthians 6
6:9: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,” TMB

1 Corinthians 6
6:9: “Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites,” NRSV
1 Corinthians
6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, NET

1Corinthians 6
9 “Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,” ASV(1901 ed.)

The question of whether it is right or wrong is not the issue among Christians. The issue is whether or not to accept what God has WRITTEN about it.

Well if you decide not to accept this part, then how can you accept any part. And if you accept any part then you must accept all parts, including those on salvation.

God has sent you a messenger already to explain being born again. Now you see his written Word in more translations than most Christians ever see.

God will give you Grace and Strength and guidance to do what is right.

God LOVES people, but He is very clear how He stands on ALL sin.

 

[forjesus]

Please get away from that so-called church if possible. I pray you can seperate yourself from it. God loves you, and wants you to do right. These people at this chuuuuurch are wrong.

 

[hanaya]

I empathise with your situation. I am in a similar situation right now. My "daughter" (not biologically) recently came out to me. She wants to date other girls but at the same time wants me to approve of it. She's a Christian and she goes to church but she says that being gay is not a sin even though clearly God says that it is. I love her and I want to support her, which I do but God always comes first.

My suggestion for you is that you attend and be supportive. Just because you support his life decision doesn't mean that you agree with it. Not attending would probably cause a rift between the two of you.

As for the being unfaithful part I suggest you confront him about that. Gay or straight, unfaithfullness is still wrong and you shouldn't let it go on without saying something when you know better.

Finally, tell your dad that you support him, but don't tell him you agree with him on this if you don't. You don't have to agree with all of his life choices, just like he doesn't have to agree with all of yours.

-Hanaya

 

 

[seebs]

Gerry, you forgot to mention the Vulgate Latin, which makes it much clearer; the word in question is translated "masculorum concubitores".

Of course, maybe, having another 1600 years between us and the culture Paul was writing in, we're more familiar with it than Jerome was. Or maybe not.

I don't object to people disagreeing, but the attacks on people who have come to believe otherwise are as sickening now as they were when the new idea was the idea that slavery might not be part of God's plan for us. Same attacks, word for word, used over and over, any time someone feels led to a different interpretation.

We're only mortals, O Lord. Forgive us our arrogance when we claim to know Your Will better than others.

 

[Gerry]

Originally posted by seebs
Gerry, you forgot to mention the Vulgate Latin, which makes it much clearer; the word in question is translated "masculorum concubitores".

Of course, maybe, having another 1600 years between us and the culture Paul was writing in, we're more familiar with it than Jerome was. Or maybe not.

I don't object to people disagreeing, but the attacks on people who have come to believe otherwise are as sickening now as they were when the new idea was the idea that slavery might not be part of God's plan for us. Same attacks, word for word, used over and over, any time someone feels led to a different interpretation.

We're only mortals, O Lord. Forgive us our arrogance when we claim to know Your Will better than others.

Also falied to mention the Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem versions, as my copy is loaned out, and the only copy of the Latin Vulgate I personally have is in Latin so I saw no point in posting it that way or translating it myself as I am sure that would be rejected. But I did not leave them out because they contradict any other version. But no matter what version you use, God is clear in both His Words and in His intent. Disagreeing with that is not disagreeing with me, but rather with the written Word of God.

I simply posted these in reply to the mention that there was "sincere debate" going on over this issue. Man has many opinions. I simply quoted God's. Sorry if that offended anyone, but that is the way God wrote it.

 

[Gerry]

BTW Seebs, I would also add to your prayer: God forgive us for NOT knowing Your will, when You have plainly written it for us, and given us Your Holy Spirit to guide us into ALL truth.

 

[wvmtnkid]

Just stepping in to do some proactive moderating:

Before this goes any further, I am asking that you please do not turn this into a debate about homosexuality. There are other forums more suited for that. Opinions have been stated. I understand that there are high emotions on both sides of this issue. If you would like to discuss your opinion further with VelvetCrush or any other member, you are free to do so via PM. Arguing or debating here, in the Prayer Forum, will not help her solve her problem.

Thanks for your cooperation!

 

[Blade]

There is some power in those posts (wvtnkid, Gerry). You can hear and see that Jesus loves you so much. He will show you a way out.

 

[Gerry]

Originally posted by wvmtnkid
Just stepping in to do some proactive moderating:

Before this goes any further, I am asking that you please do not turn this into a debate about homosexuality. There are other forums more suited for that. Opinions have been stated. I understand that there are high emotions on both sides of this issue. If you would like to discuss your opinion further with VelvetCrush or any other member, you are free to do so via PM. Arguing or debating here, in the Prayer Forum, will not help her solve her problem.

Thanks for your cooperation!

Amen wvmtnkid! I do not believe in debating period, and especially not over Bible doctrine. That is why I only post scriptures and let people believe or disbelieve as they like. Thanks for intervening!