Well, a quick google came up with the number 65% of women have experienced verbal and physical street harassment. That was for America. In Australia, it was 87%.
Unfortunately, when I looked, I only found numbers from a source called "Stop Street Harassment"....which obviously might be biased. When I looked for studies....it was also problematic because they included things like "leering"...which seems rather vague and subjective.
So with that in mind, can you just provide a link or two?
Okay, that, right there, is an entitlement mentality. I want to do something which impacts you, and I don't care if you don't like or don't want it or don't feel safe while I do it.
Dude, really? How does that meet any sort of basic ethical standard?
If I go to the store and purchase a candy bar....that could negatively impact someone. I might get the last one available that doesn't have any peanuts....and now the next person who comes in that has a peanut allergy won't be able to purchase a candy bar!!!
Everything....literally
everything we do has the
potential to negatively impact
someone. That's not a reasonable basis for ethical considerations....it's not even a possible basis for ethical considerations.
Awesome shift to blaming the victim there.
Whoa....lol ok. Here's what you said...
Almost all men who commit domestic violence have three things in common; they believe themselves superior to women with a right to control women (a belief in gender hierarchy), they find violence acceptable, and they hold to fairly rigid gender roles/stereotypes. So primary prevention aims at breaking down those beliefs and attitudes which - in the minds of these men - legitimate their actions.
You described a situation where men with very negative feelings are impacting their lives, and the lives of others, and how you think they need to be responsible for them and change them. How? By changing their beliefs and perspectives....
Yet for the whole time you've been posting....you're talking about negative feelings and thoughts that women have (I'm scared when I'm in public around large men! Women feel intimidated and powerless!) and you want men to be responsible for those as well.
Yet the second I suggest that women might bear some responsibility for the situation....I'm "victim blaming".
This begs the question, at what point are women responsible for their own feelings??? Never??? If men have negative feelings that impact their lives...it's their fault and they need to change their perceptions. If women have negative feelings that impact their lives....it's men's fault and they need to change.
Congratulations...you've rationalized your way to a point where women are never ever at fault or responsible for anything negative in their lives lol.
I am very clear that I don't know enough about the American situation to make any sort of informed comment.
Well don't feel too bad....it looks like you're not the only one.
I'm not just saying that because I've felt something, so have most women. I've had these discussions with many, many women. I'm well informed on the feelings and reactions of other women on this matter.
And did you read post 280 where I posted an article written by a feminist talking about how she enjoys catcalls?
You know, on another forum I belong to, there's also a discussion about this ad running. It developed into mentioning a tweet from some person I'd never heard of, saying: "Women, imagine that for 24 hours, there were no men in the world. No men are being harmed in the creation of this hypothetical. They will all return. They are safe and happy wherever they are during this hypothetical time period.
What would or could you do that day?"
And the really sad thing, was that most of the women answering said they'd go for a walk. Like, that's what not having men around meant for lots of us; we could take a walk, wherever we wanted, in safety.
No, actually, the really really sad thing, was that just for asking the question, the person who started that discussion got rape threats...
I think women would probably start complaining about the negative and belittling comments/snide remarks that they get from other women.
It's not behaviour I've seen a lot. Is it something all men experience?
I would be surprised if anyone has studied the topic. We simply don't consider men's problems as seriously as we do women's.
I don't remember the comedian who commented on this recently...but I vaguely remember the bit. He asked the audience to consider how #MeToo would've went had Harvey Weinstein been a woman and the actresses been men instead.
The point of the bit was that at the very most....it would've been considered a humorous anecdote when the actors came forward and described the sexual assaults from "Harvina"....culminating in the question "So did you get the part?"
I think we as a community get to decide that masculinity shouldn't be harmful.
I think we get to decide some issues as a community...I don't think masculinity or femininity are amongst those things though. Those tend to arise a bit too organically to be controlled by social mandate.
On a very very basic level....I think what we're talking about is generally, the problem of overly aggressive sexual behavior in men. There's some very basic biological underpinnings here that you can't simply change with a discussion.
Men won't stop wanting to have sex. Men are more sexually aggressive for the simple reason that women don't "reward" sexually passive men with...sex. In other words, the men who get sex are the ones who go out and seek it. Percentage-wise...it's a small number of us who are either attractive enough or high status enough to have women chasing after us.
The only way I can see to realistically change men's behavior long term is going to sound ridiculous. You'd have to convince women to have lots of sex with low-status, plain or unattractive, sexually passive men. If that were the world we lived in....you'd probably see men stop hitting on women all the time.
If we see evidence that our ideals and narratives of masculinity are harming men themselves, their families and our society, then it's time to examine those ideals and narratives.
This "narrative" wasn't dreamt up by some group of men. Nobody really controls what they find attractive.
Have you ever looked at the "incel" community? It gets press when it's overly negative...but the reality is, it's a group of men who want females (and not just sex, but relationships as well) but cannot get them. For some, it's because they're honestly quite ugly. For others, it's because they have some serious problems/character flaws....
But there is a group in there who probably could have intimate relationships with women, but don't simply because they're intimidated, anxious, and lack any real self esteem or confidence. They really respect women...to the point of idealizing them a bit...and are paralyzed by fear of rejection. They would not approach a woman...even in an appropriate setting...and this leaves them depressed and alone because women will not approach them.
Now imagine if all guys were like that....you'd have a world where you never need fear walking around in public. No women would ever be harassed in the slightest way. In fact, if a woman did desire a relationship with a man....she could just approach a man whenever she pleases and decide the terms of the relationship herself.
Even if we could do that....and somehow avoid the depression and loneliness of all those single men who are likely to die alone....do you really think men and women would really be happy or better off in that world?
Be honest...how many men do you think you've tried to initiate some sort of romantic relationship with in your entire life? Do we need more than one hand to count the number?
Yes, many women enjoy rape fantasies. The key word there is "fantasy," which is a safe way to explore a bunch of emotions and motivations. Real rape isn't a fantasy, it's a ticket to PTSD.
My point was about what women find attractive....not trying to say women want to be raped. Give me some credit here.
Women might be attracted to a level of aggression and risk-taking (and I can see the sense in that) but the attraction wears pretty thin when the aggression is turned against her.
And that's the irony here. When we're talking about men...the traits that attract them are almost always physical and it's a fairly short universal list. Men are fairly simple in this regard....and the result is that we're attracted to many women.
Women on the other hand are far more complex...they don't just go for the physical features like being tall, physically strong, deep voiced, wide jawed, and narrow eyed. They're also attracted by high social status (doctors, lawyers, CEOs) physically aggressive, socially aggressive, domineering, adventurous/risk-taking, etc. The fantasy is that not only will they find this man...but despite his almost immeasurable self reliance, control, and invincibility...he's going to open up to that one special woman who can see his brief vulnerability and fall passionately in love with her.
It's a complicated, contradictory list, and no guy is really going to live up to it lol....if anything, that's all the more reason not to just let women decide what masculinity should be.
I'm glad that you can appreciate why most women are attracted to the idea of an aggressive and even potentially violent man. I can certainly appreciate that no woman wants her man to be violent to her....just others...especially those who might be threatening to the woman herself.
Now all I really need you to realize is that isn't a simple request. When you spend hundreds of thousands of years sexually selecting men in favor of aggressive tendencies and behavior....well, sometimes that comes in combination with other traits and characteristics that result in dangerous behavior.
I don't think we can all just decide to get rid of it....and I'm certainly not convinced that we should.