Reading Malachi

[brinny]

yeah, astounding meanings in that word "fear"...worthy of astute examination and study....

 

[faroukfarouk]

yeah, astounding meanings in that word "fear"...worthy of astute examination and study....

Ms. brinny:

Yes, in Scripture there are at least two kinds of fear:

1) fear of judgment, associated with unblelief

2) a wholesome reverential fear, pointing to faith.

Blessings.

 

[Rebecca Sue]

Very nice thread, I'm enjoying it and learning. Thanks

 

[faroukfarouk]

Very nice thread, I'm enjoying it and learning. Thanks

YW, Ms. Rebecca Sue. All comments appreciated. (It was a bit slow at first on this thread.)

Blessings to you and yours.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Malachi also discusses tithes...from an Old Testament perspective.

The giving of tithes to Levites was all part of life under the old economy.

I think that if people today who are born again, under grace, wish to give freely a tenth or more than a tenth of their income, this is commendable.

But under grace, liberty rules, not law.

I don't see that tithing is enforceable under grace.

If there really is tithing in New Testament Christianity, then where are the Levites?

Some would say, Oh, the pastors have replaced the Levites. But this is to raise all sorts of questions about the nature of priesthood.

So we need to remember that Malachi is for our profit and benefit. But Malachi does not describe directly the situation of the New Testament believer, because there is a new system in place now, under grace, through faith in the Lord Jesus.

 

[brinny]

....i'm reminded of theses verses:

"And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had." ~Luke 21:1-4

What do you think Jesus meant when He said this?

 

[faroukfarouk]

....i'm reminded of theses verses:

"And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had." ~Luke 21:1-4

What do you think Jesus meant when He said this?

Ms. brinny:

The Lord Jesus is talking about generosity and abundance; God see the heart, and loves a cheerful giver.

Neither the Lord Jesus, nor the Apostles, sought to put New Testament Christians saved by grace, back under the Old Testament law, which, with the Levites who were supposed to collect them, is where tithing strictly belongs.

If we give more than one tenth now, freely and without obligation, this is commendable. But we are not under the Old Testament law.

So my point earlier was, when we profit from books such as Malachi, we need to remember its dispensational background.

Blessings.

 

[brinny]

...i agree that Jesus saw the widow's heart....she gave because she loved God...it sorta' represented her giving her heart and all that she was, to God, didn't it? Maybe a literal intention to "bless" God?

 

[faroukfarouk]

...i agree that Jesus saw the widow's heart....she gave because she loved God...it sorta' represented her giving her heart and all that she was, to God, didn't it? Maybe a literal intention to "bless" God?

Ms. brinny:

I'm sure this is true, yes.

Blessings.

 

[brinny]

...i truly believe that we can never ever out-give God

 

[faroukfarouk]

...i truly believe that we can never ever out-give God

Well, exactly.

2 Corinthians 9.15: "Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift".

John 3.16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son..."

And the response of an eternally grateful heart is the opposite of being put back under legal bondage!

Blessings.

 

[brinny]

...giving as an expression of thanksgiving for his inexplicable Gift and utter delight in a gloriously gracious and merciful God, to give from a thankful, celebrating heart.....similar to when Mary poured the costly oil on Jesus feet and wiped His feet with her hair.....

aren't there verses in the new Testament that speaks of the generosity of believers and how this was used as an example of their love for one another?

 

[faroukfarouk]

...giving as an expression of thanksgiving for his inexplicable Gift and utter delight in a gloriously gracious and merciful God, to give from a thankful, celebrating heart.....similar to when Mary poured the costly oil on Jesus feet and wiped His feet with her hair.....

aren't there verses in the new Testament that speaks of the generosity of believers and how this was used as an example of their love for one another?

2 Corinthians 8.2-5:

"...in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. 3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
5 And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God."


Blessings.

 

[brinny]

Beautiful verses, thank you...

 

[faroukfarouk]

Beautiful verses, thank you...

Ms. brinny:

YW; there are probably more as well.

Paul also commended the Philippians for the gift they gave him, not because he desired a gift, but so that they would be rewarded.

Blessings.

 

[brinny]

yes, i think perhaps many times Paul is misunderstood when he speaks of those who give to him....

 

[sheina]

Malachi also discusses tithes...from an Old Testament perspective.

The giving of tithes to Levites was all part of life under the old economy.

I think that if people today who are born again, under grace, wish to give freely a tenth or more than a tenth of their income, this is commendable.

But under grace, liberty rules, not law.

I don't see that tithing is enforceable under grace.

If there really is tithing in New Testament Christianity, then where are the Levites?

Some would say, Oh, the pastors have replaced the Levites. But this is to raise all sorts of questions about the nature of priesthood.

So we need to remember that Malachi is for our profit and benefit. But Malachi does not describe directly the situation of the New Testament believer, because there is a new system in place now, under grace, through faith in the Lord Jesus.

Glad you brought up the subject of tithes. Malachi 3:8-10 is one of the most misused, abused, and misinterpreted passages in Scripture which is probably preached every Sunday morning in most church pulpits.

Here is a link to one of my husband's articles that he wrote some years ago. He has studied the subject of tithing for 30 years and has written many articles against the church's practice and teaching of the monetary NT tithe.

Will A Man Rob God?
by Ronald W. Robey

On any given Sunday, there will be Pastor’s who will stand behind the pulpit and will preach a well-known message out of the 3rd Chapter of the last book of the Old Testament, Malachi.

“Will a man ROB GOD?,” will boom through the air with emphasis on ‘rob God.’ Many preacher’s will put the emphasis on ‘rob God’ to instill an automatic fear into the very minds of the hearer. It causes the automatic cringing of the people the preacher wants to put in a spirit of condemnation.

“Yet YOU HAVE ROBBED ME. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for YE HAVE ROBBED ME, even this whole nation.”

Every single believer in the congregation who is not placing money in a tithe envelope and placing it in the offering plate is automatically pointed out by this man (figuratively) who is supposed to be speaking for God as being robbers and are therefore under a curse which will NEVER BE LIFTED as long as one is disobedient to God.

This is why it is important for each and every person who has been adopted into the family of God by faith in the substitutionary blood of Jesus Christ on the cruel cross of Calvary to “Study to shew thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Jesus said in John 17 during His prayer to His Father acknowledging all that the Father gave Him these wonderful words that we all need to embrace and realize that He wants us to study diligently; “Sanctify them through Thy Truth; Thy Word is Truth.”

Once we learn that it is God’s Holy Word that sanctifies, that sets us apart from the world, that separates us from false teachings, then we have a responsibility to study that Word and begin to apply its truths to our walk. When we walk according to the Word of God, we will not be so easily swayed by preachers who do not study as they should.

Oh, but the preacher has doctorates given him by a famous seminary that has turned out many wonderful men of God! Don’t be fooled, Brethren. The only thing that will turn out a wonderful man of God is God Himself.

And the best place to go to learn who God is and what He expects of man is to the very Words of God… The Holy Bible.

In the accusation of man robbing God in today’s Christian community, a charge is generally given out of Malachi that not only was not speaking of money, but it was not speaking of the Gentile nations at all.

The Gentile nations were not required to tithe according to God’s Word.

Let’s begin to look into the passage and learn what God is truly addressing when the prophet Malachi said “Will a man rob God? But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.”

Continued HERE:

If a person wants to give a tenth of their gross income to the church, then that's fine. But NOBODY should be coerced into doing so. A Christian should not be told that he/she is "under a curse" or that he/she is "robbing God" if they don't "tithe". But remember, one tenth of your gross income is NOT a biblical tithe. The biblical tithe was never money...but crops, flocks and herds, according to Leviticus 27:30-34.

The Scripture I use as a "guide" for "grace giving" is found in 2 Corinthians 9:7:

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Glad you brought up the subject of tithes. Malachi 3:8-10 is one of the most misused, abused, and misinterpreted passages in Scripture which is probably preached every Sunday morning in most church pulpits.

Here is a link to one of my husband's articles that he wrote some years ago. He has studied the subject of tithing for 30 years and has written many articles against the church's practice and teaching of the monetary NT tithe.


If a person wants to give a tenth of their gross income to the church, then that's fine. But NOBODY should be coerced into doing so. A Christian should not be told that he/she is "under a curse" or that he/she is "robbing God" if they don't "tithe". But remember, one tenth of your gross income is NOT a biblical tithe. The biblical tithe was never money...but crops, flocks and herds, according to Leviticus 27:30-34.

The Scripture I use as a "guide" for "grace giving" is found in 2 Corinthians 9:7:

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Ms. sheina:

Yes, I think I would broadly agree very much with the lines of what is expressed her.

Malachi is Old Testament, the church is not in the Old Testament, I'm a dispensationalist!

The only thing I would add is that Paul speaks of 'the Jew...the Gentile...the church of God' (1 Corinthians 10.32). If I'm born again and thus in the church spiritually, then other identities I had have been absorbed by my new identity in Christ, even if to some extent those old identities are still there culturally.

Blessings.

 

[sheina]

Ms. sheiana:

Yes, I think I would broadly agree very much with the lines of what is expressed her.

Malachi is Old Testament, the church is not in the Old Testament, I'm a dispensationalist!

The only thing I would add is that Paul speaks of 'the Jew...the Gentile...the church of God' (1 Corinthians 10.32). If I'm born again and thus in the church spiritually, then other identities I had have been absorbed by my new identity in Christ, even if to some extent those old identities are still there culturally.

Blessings.

Paul was speaking of three "groups" of people (Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, which is composed of saved people from both of the other two groups...Jews and Gentiles). Spiritually speaking, there is neither Jew, nor Gentile...but we are all ONE IN CHRIST JESUS (Galatians 3:28-29). The ground is level at the foot of the cross...all are sinners ...all come to Christ the same way, by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

"Nothing in my hand I bring,
Simply to Thy cross I cling;" (Rock of Ages, Augustus M. Toplady, 1776)

 

[faroukfarouk]

Paul was speaking of three "groups" of people (Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, which is composed of saved people from both of the other two groups...Jews and Gentiles). Spiritually speaking, there is neither Jew, nor Gentile...but we are all ONE IN CHRIST JESUS (Galatians 3:28-29). The ground is level at the foot of the cross...all are sinners ...all come to Christ the same way, by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

"Nothing in my hand I bring,
Simply to Thy cross I cling;" (Rock of Ages, Augustus M. Toplady, 1776)

Ms. sheina:

Yes, I would certainly agree with all you say.

When Bible readers stay confused about these distinctions it can lead to misunderstandings.

Malachi is at the end of the Old Testament, of course, but still Old Testament dispensationally.

I love that Toplady hymn! There is such a wealth of truth in the classic hymns of the church. I do like Christian hard rock, as well, particularly if is has good. Biblical lyrics - which some of it does.

Blessings.