Reaching perfection

[Southernscotty]

I actually sat through "part" of a church service where the minister spoke of being sanctified to a place of perfection in this life. This based off of Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
He stated that this shows there is a place of perfection available to us.

Now I personally do not feel this is possible for anyone to reach on this earth, and although we should strive for it, We will never reach that level.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Gal 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
These veres and many others tell me otherwise.

We are saved by grace through faith and this is without any type of works. It is a free gift; Even though with our faith will come works and the two are mutual.

I was curious as to others response on this because I have preached twice lately on pressing on toward the ultimate goal but I had never heard anyone take this ministers approach to this.

 

[SkyWriting]

I actually sat through "part" of a church service where the minister spoke of being sanctified to a place of perfection in this life. This based off of Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
He stated that this shows there is a place of perfection available to us.

Now I personally do not feel this is possible for anyone to reach on this earth, and although we should strive for it, We will never reach that level.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Gal 5:17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
These veres and many others tell me otherwise.

We are saved by grace through faith and this is without any type of works. It is a free gift; Even though with our faith will come works and the two are mutual.

I was curious as to others response on this because I have preached twice lately on pressing on toward the ultimate goal but I had never heard anyone take this ministers approach to this.

He didn't say what you mean.

He stated that this shows there is a place of perfection available to us.

Meaning, there is a small taste of perfection available to us through our relationship with Jesus.

This passage also indicates a tiny sliver of perfection:
Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

 

[Southernscotty]

He didn't say what you mean.


Meaning, there is a small taste of perfection available to us through our relationship with Jesus.

This passage also indicates a tiny sliver of perfection:
Phil 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

No friend, I heard loud and clear. He stated that there is a place of complete and finished sanctification here on earth. Where there is no longer any sin.

 

[Heavenhome]

I take this as Yes we are always to press forwards to the goal but we won't find it this side of heaven.
And I don't think it comes naturally but as when we come to Christ our lives change and going on with our faith the fruits in our life will prove our true faith in God.
We press forward to the goal as Paul says and this is the race we run all of our lives and the finish and prize will be heaven .We won't be perfect in this life although we always try.

 

[Southernscotty]

I take this as Yes we are always to press forwards to the goal but we won't find it this side of heaven.
And I don't think it comes naturally but as when we come to Christ our lives change and going on with our faith the fruits in our life will prove our true faith in God.
We press forward to the goal as Paul says and this is the race we run all of our lives and the finish and prize will be heaven .We won't be perfect in this life although we always try.

Exactly how I see it. The perfect will come when we have finished the race, Not before.
Jesus said He didn't come to bring peace but division :]

 

[mama2one]

Luke 23:34


Jesus forgave while he hung on the cross; imagine an incredibly difficult thing to do.


there are people who have suffered terribly at the hands of others and have forgiven those that hurt them

or people who suffer greatly from car accidents, diseases, etc right before they die and go with acceptance

provided the above die believing in Jesus/having believed "thy will be done"

imagine they have been purified?

 

[Valetic]

I wouldn't quote me on this but I have the feeling that if such a state of being did exist in this day in time that you would just be whisked away to heaven the way Elijah or Philip were.

 

[Southernscotty]

I wouldn't quote me on this but I have the feeling that if such a state of being did exist in this day in time that you would just be whisked away to heaven the way Elijah or Philip were.

I tend to agree. I do not know how a person could get to where their initial thoughts were always sinless. I still have short burst of angry thoughts at some things I hear and even though I do not want to feel that way, I still do. Thank God for grace and the ability to repent and go forth :]

 

[drjean]

Being perfected, being perfect, being sanctified, and not having sin... interesting concepts.

I have no sin.
Wow yep I said that ...and I said it because Jesus told me this--- told all of us who have trusted in Him. I used to have sin but Jesus REMOVED it as far as the east is from the west, right? How many of my sins were in the cross's future... ALL of them, continuing... Jesus died for ALL my sin.. for all sin!

Am I perfect here on earth? Who's doing the 'looking' ? If God is looking, I am perfect because He only sees me (us) through Jesus' blood. [Basic premise: sin is scarlet/red. Looking through Jesus' blood -red filter- God sees NO red/sin.]

Do I still mess up and err? Of course, but Paul tells us that is the flesh...fleshes habits, not us in Christ. The flesh is still corrupted. That's why our bodies will be changed... but who we are, our soul, spirits are already renewed, already sanctified, already pure before God (because of Jesus).

I did a word study awhile back on all the different words in the Bible used for "sin"..in both OT and NT... and it was quite enlightening. Once again the English language fails us...because there are variations of what we only read as the word "sin". [This is one reason I support the word "transgression/transgressor" in the Creed--- it's not a debt but a error of omission or commission of which we are unaware!]

Anyway I digress.

We are perfect in Christ.

Let us lay aside the "sin" that so easily besets us.... that of guilt! If we don't live without guilt of sin but with fear of error then we cannot truly serve God, imo. We are free... the Truth makes us that way.

 

[Dave G.]

In a way he is right, in that our perfection is in Christ Jesus. But full sanctification, where we reach the full goal in these bodies is not possible, we have to shed the old man who is still in these bodies. In fact it would lead to works, not just the work of the spirit once born again but works to improve ourselves. We won't be fully sanctified till we leave these bodies, in spirit we already are but in Christ's purity. I'll be glad to be corrected if it makes any sense but this is how I understand it to be.

 

[Southernscotty]

Being perfected, being perfect, being sanctified, and not having sin... interesting concepts.

I have no sin.
Wow yep I said that ...and I said it because Jesus told me this--- told all of us who have trusted in Him. I used to have sin but Jesus REMOVED it as far as the east is from the west, right? How many of my sins were in the cross's future... ALL of them, continuing... Jesus died for ALL my sin.. for all sin!

Am I perfect here on earth? Who's doing the 'looking' ? If God is looking, I am perfect because He only sees me (us) through Jesus' blood. [Basic premise: sin is scarlet/red. Looking through Jesus' blood -red filter- God sees NO red/sin.]

Do I still mess up and err? Of course, but Paul tells us that is the flesh...fleshes habits, not us in Christ. The flesh is still corrupted. That's why our bodies will be changed... but who we are, our soul, spirits are already renewed, already sanctified, already pure before God (because of Jesus).

I did a word study awhile back on all the different words in the Bible used for "sin"..in both OT and NT... and it was quite enlightening. Once again the English language fails us...because there are variations of what we only read as the word "sin". [This is one reason I support the word "transgression/transgressor" in the Creed--- it's not a debt but a error of omission or commission of which we are unaware!]

Anyway I digress.

We are perfect in Christ.

Let us lay aside the "sin" that so easily besets us.... that of guilt! If we don't live without guilt of sin but with fear of error then we cannot truly serve God, imo. We are free... the Truth makes us that way.

While I agree that we are sinless of spirit in Christ, We are still being made Christlike in our physical lives and actions on this earth and that is what I am talking about. The physical side of our christian walk. All of us fall short of God's glory

 

[Dave G.]

I wouldn't quote me on this but I have the feeling that if such a state of being did exist in this day in time that you would just be whisked away to heaven the way Elijah or Philip were.

OOOOOh now that is good !

 

[Southernscotty]

In a way he is right, in that our perfection is in Christ Jesus. But full sanctification, where we reach the full goal in these bodies is not possible, we have to shed the old man who is still in these bodies. In fact it would lead to works, not just the work of the spirit once born again but works to improve ourselves. We won't be fully sanctified till we leave these bodies, in spirit we already are but in Christ's purity. I'll be glad to be corrected if it makes any sense but this is how I understand it to be.

Exactly what I believe. In Spirit we are new creations but we still live in this sinful flesh and it is returning to the earth

 

[RaymondG]

I say, waste not your time striving for the impossible. I do believe believe that Jesus was telling us to do the impossible when He said : "Be Ye Perfect." For those who believe.....This is possible.

 

[Dave G.]

Exactly what I believe. In Spirit we are new creations but we still live in this sinful flesh and it is returning to the earth

Even when it is called back out of the earth it will be transformed .

 

[Southernscotty]

I say, waste not your time striving for the impossible. I do believe believe that Jesus was telling us to do the impossible when He said : "Be Ye Perfect." For those who believe.....This is possible.

How can you stop the sinful thoughts and actions that are done without recognition?

 

[Southernscotty]

I say, waste not your time striving for the impossible. I do believe believe that Jesus was telling us to do the impossible when He said : "Be Ye Perfect." For those who believe.....This is possible.

I think that He meant by being wrapped or "clothed" in His righteousness

 

[RaymondG]

Exactly how I see it. The perfect will come when we have finished the race, Not before.
Jesus said He didn't come to bring peace but division :]

This is true. however, are you to have us believe that death concludes the race? when Jesus stated the following? :
"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

 

[RaymondG]

How can you stop the sinful thoughts and actions that are done without recognition?

No more I, But Christ that liveth in me. I of my own self can do nothing. Also note, that it is a personal interpretation that being Perfect, implies stopping thoughts and actions.....

 

[RaymondG]

I think that He meant by being wrapped or "clothed" in His righteousness

I see nothing wrong with this. But how is it that one wrapped in righteousness, can sin?