Reaching out to atheists: what mistakes do Christians make?

[Nadiine]

Even non-believers know when another is not approaching them with a Heart filled with Love. And when we don't approach others with a Heart filled with Love, that's where the problem is. Not in definitions.

.

I know some people on CF - they have a post history Light.
There are reasons I reply in the ways I do w/ some. How I might
be with 1 person isn't how I 'd be with another.
& everyone is like that to some degree & you'll also find that supported
in scripture.

So please, you've made your points, let's let it rest now, K?

 

[The Lady Kate]

I don't recall disagreeing with love, I'm merely making the note
that love without His truth isn't what God calls Christians to.

So noted. But focusing exclusively on one relatively minor rule at the expense of the others... including love, isn't what God calls us to either.

Showing love while promoting sin or other false religions isn't
leading someone to truth or salvation... (which I see done
on forums often)
Nothing to make a huge issue over - it's true.

Good thing nobody's doing that here.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Even non-believers know when another is not approaching them with a Heart filled with Love. And when we don't approach others with a Heart filled with Love, that's where the problem is. Not in definitions.

.

Indeed... a heart filled with love doesn't have a laundry list of things that they're just waiting to rebuke someone for.

 

[The Lady Kate]

and now you presume to know what "I think I am" too?
it just continues................

I only know what you present yourself as, Nadiine... I can only assume you think it is who you are.

You can try to sound as sincere as you might want, but I take
your last paragraph as an insult since it's of a personal nature against
me & not on topic.

So, rebukes and corrections are signs of love so long as they're not directed against you. Any other time, they're insults. Check.

So hopefully this can now end becuz I see no more point trying to
explain this over & over.

Agreed. Let's continue. I agree with you that rebukes and corrections are vital aspects of all Love, especially God's. However, when dealing with nonbelievers, using them as the first club out of the bag, so to speak, never works.

 

[LightSeaker]

Show love all day long & I'm all for it [unless rebuke or
correction are the best response], but as conflicting doctrines
from orthodox & unorthodox/ conservative/liberal continue,
they do more damage than anything as far as I'm concerned.

If a person starts in God...they will end in God. If a person starts in rebuke, rebuke is where they end. There are over 34,000 different Christian sects through out the world, with quite a few conflecting doctrines among them. The place of unity between all of them is in our Love of Jesus Christ. The need to rebuke can get in the way of the Love for Jesus Christ as the focus. The result is that our differences become the focus while our unity in Christ becomes diminished.

.

 

[Nadiine]

If a person starts in God they will end in God.

which God? defining Him is about ambiguous as I've been reading in
many posts.

If a person starts in rebuke, rebuke is where they end. There are over 34,000 different Christian sects through out the world, with quite a few conflecting doctrines among them. The place of unity between all of them is in our Love of Jesus Christ. The need to rebuke can get in the way of the Love for Jesus Christ as the focus. The result is that our differences become the focus while our unity in Christ becomes diminished.

& not ALL of them are Godly denominations with sound doctrine;
Not all of them preach the same Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 2:1
[ False Teachers and Their Destruction ] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.
They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)

Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.
They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.


I'm sorry but I don't lump in ALL churches/denoms as "Christian" just becuz they erect the title "Christian" on their front doors.
The "I'm a Christian becuz I say I am" isn't the definition of a Christian.

When a church or person is preaching a false gospel or promoting
evil in God's name, it is what it is: False.

Matthew 7:13-15


The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit

15"Watch out for false prophets.
They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 10:16
I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.
Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

Acts 20:29
I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you
and will not spare the flock.

Matthew 24:10-12

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold


Luke 6:26
Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.

1 John 4:1
[ Test the Spirits ] Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God,
because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Lots of warnings on the false are given & to pay attn. to the
messages they bring in God's name. Biblical warning means something
is very important for us to watch for.
& since it's repeated in scripture so many times, I
think it's key to expose those false things openly & I will do that.

Ephesians 5:11
11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness,
but rather expose them.

Love is not robotically smiling at everybody with a Miss America
Pageant wave... I have never viewed it that way but that's what
alot of people portray these days.

I think there needs to be alot more balance in how love is shown.

 

[Nadiine]

I only know what you present yourself as, Nadiine... I can only assume you think it is who you are.

So, rebukes and corrections are signs of love so long as they're not directed against you. Any other time, they're insults. Check.

I was going more towards CF rules w/ making negative personal comments, not that rebuke isn't ever warrented.

But it was more personal insult based on assumption.
Seriously, if you want to push Love, you might want to pay more attn. to your own posts than judging others'. Just a suggestion.

Agreed. Let's continue. I agree with you that rebukes and corrections are vital aspects of all Love, especially God's. However, when dealing with nonbelievers, using them as the first club out of the bag, so to speak, never works.

Well I agree on that.

I never do - & most of my friends are unsaved... they sure don't feel
attacked or preached at. In fact, the only time religion gets brought
up is if they start it.

Most of what I do in forums is go after false teaching in God's name,
so alot of my posts will APPEAR a certain way due to where I post - that's not
how I am with everyone or in real life.

So that might take care of your personal "assumptions" about me & why
I dont' view myself the way you think I should.

 

[LightSeaker]

which God? defining Him is about ambiguous as I've been reading in many posts.

Your God. God is not a definition. God is experienced with in ones heart and soul. When one starts with God in ones heart, they will end with God with in ones heart. Love and Harmony will be theirs.

& not ALL of them are Godly denominations with sound doctrine;

Not all of them preach the same Jesus Christ.

And...when one starts with division and separation, they will end with division and separation...even in Jesus Christ they find division and separation. Anguish and unhappiness with be theirs.

 

[Nadiine]

Your God. God is not a definition. God is experienced with in ones heart and soul. When one starts with God in ones heart, they will end with God with in ones heart. Love and Harmony will be theirs.

And...when one starts with division and separation, they will end with division and separation...even in Jesus Christ they find division and separation. Anguish and unhappiness with be theirs.

& when one starts with heresy & false teaching, they will end up with
false religion.

Sorry, this isn't a biblically sound reply at all.

You're going by "peaceful feelings" about God rather than truth.
The truth is, many who convert find themselves in alot of spiritual
turmoil all of a sudden & many who feel "warm inside" after they
convert to another religion disprove this.

This just sounds new agey to me.

 

[LightSeaker]

& when one starts with heresy & false teaching, they will end up with
false religion.

In Jesus Christ, there is no false teaching.

Sorry, this isn't a biblically sound reply at all.

Love, Forgiveness and putting others first in ones life isn't Biblically sound?

You're going by "peaceful feelings" about God rather than truth.

Nope. I'm going by the Light of God.

The truth is, many who convert find themselves in alot of spiritual
turmoil all of a sudden & many who feel "warm inside" after they
convert to another religion disprove this.

I agree. Yet, even in the spiritual turmoil, the Light of God as seen in Jesus Christ shines through. It is in that Light that we find unity.

In the end, it's all between God and a Lover of God. But our job as Lovers of God is to keep our eye on God and to make the Light of God a reality in our lives. That is where Truth is found and that's what even non-believers can see in believers.

This just sounds new agey to me.

You know more about new agey stuff more than I.

The reason why this all matters is that it reflects the way one approaches non-believers. If one starts with God, they will show Love. All human beings respond to Love. I can't think of a more perfect way to approach not only non-believers, but everyone else for that matter.


.

 

[Nadiine]

In Jesus Christ, there is no false teaching.

Love, Forgiveness and putting others first in ones life isn't Biblically sound?

Nope. I'm going by the Light of God.

So anyone who claims to be of God IS then? Just becuz they say they
believe?

Matt. 7 & other verses refute that.

I agree. Yet, even in the spiritual turmoil, the Light of God as seen in Jesus Christ shines through. It is in that Light that we find unity.

LIGHT is in truth, not "unity". And if you think there's unity
btwn. orthodox & unorthodox..... I don't know where to even
begin in shattering your dream there.

In the end, it's all between God and a Lover of God. But our job as Lovers of God is to keep our eye on God and to make the Light of God a reality in our lives. That is where Truth is found and that's what even non-believers can see in believers.

This isn't new agism, God IS definable, not esoteric.
Which god? The one of the Bible? Or the one many here claim
isn't in the scriptures - when scripture isn't God's truth; that it's full of error & then they deny all sorts of scriptures that they dislike?

You know more about new agey stuff more than I.

Do I?

The reason why this all matters is that it reflects the way one approaches non-believers. If one starts with God, they will show Love. All human beings respond to Love. I can't think of a more perfect way to approach not only non-believers, but everyone else for that matter.

Sorry this sounds like a hippy love-in or something.
Yes I'm sorry, I don't get all into this "love' jargon & lava lamps.
I love people, I don't sit & idealize "love" itself like this is relaying.

I'd LOVE to know what some of you guys think we do when we meet
people or relate to regular people? Walk up & demand they give us their entire spiritual story & background & then whip out a huge bible & start preaching about hell & homosexuality?

You act as if we're from mars sometimes. Honestly, some of these
posts are eerie to me.

 

[LightSeaker]

Sorry this sounds like a hippy love-in or something.
Yes I'm sorry, I don't get all into this "love' jargon & lava lamps.
I love people, I don't sit & idealize "love" itself like this is relaying.

Jesus is a hippy?!? He sort of looks like one...I don't know about that one though.

.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

The question is, how best to reach out to atheist? The best place to start is with Love.

.

I think the question was what mistakes do Christians make when trying to reach out to atheists?

Honestly., I don't know. I just continue sharing the gospel, I figured, I'll plant the seed and God will give the increase.

I know for me, when someone taught me the gospel, showing love to me didn't work. I am not the type of person that responds to love, I respond to what is truth. And that is how I came to know God. I was searching for Truth and I found it in Him, by people telling me about Him, by me asking question, by researching and seeking, I found the truth in God. Showing Christ through examples are good, but if you show examples but don't let people know that the reason you believe is in Christ, then how would they know Christ? Sometimes people really do need to hear the message of Christ, not every example show be shown. God said faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, meaning we do need to share the gospel and words are included in the gospel message.

 

[Nadiine]

I think the question was what mistakes do Christians make when trying to reach out to atheists?

Honestly., I don't know. I just continue sharing the gospel, I figured, I'll plant the seed and God will give the increase.

I know for me, when someone taught me the gospel, showing love to me didn't work. I am not the type of person that responds to love, I respond to what is truth. And that is how I came to know God. I was searching for Truth and I found it in Him, by people telling me about Him, by me asking question, by researching and seeking, I found the truth in God. Showing Christ through examples are good, but if you show examples but don't let people know that the reason you believe is in Christ, then how would they know Christ? Sometimes people really do need to hear the message of Christ, not every example show be shown. God said faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, meaning we do need to share the gospel and words are included in the gospel message.

I'm the same way.
I grew up in a Christian home, having to go to church 3-4 times
per week for a long time.

In my really rebellious years, I had LOVE showered on me by
more people than I can count & it didn't change anything.
Some of them I figured were faking it, some of them I liked, but I
just didn't care what they said becuz I had my own life going &
theirs was boring & restrictive.....
others I disliked entirely & knew they really didn't care.
Most of them I was jealous of actually - I wanted to be happy with
God & religion, but I just couldn't/wouldn't be willing to give up
the lifestyle I was in.

Anyways, love to me was weakness & wimpyness or fake or sickening.
& it's no doubt why I don't worship the concept like I see so many
others doing... if something doesn't work or make you respond to it,
then you tend to promote the method that worked more in reaching
you.
Like you, for me it was Truth too. Until God really revealed Himself
to me directly & I saw things for what they were in reality,
THEN the lightbulb came on and I wanted to follow Him.

I'm sure this is why Jude gives 2 forms of reaching others -
thru gentleness and/or warning-fear.
warning doesn't work for some, they respond to love.
Love doesn't work for some, they respond to truth & reality.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

I'm the same way.
I grew up in a Christian home, having to go to church 3-4 times
per week for a long time.

In my really rebellious years, I had LOVE showered on me by
more people than I can count & it didn't change anything.
Some of them I figured were faking it, some of them I liked, but I
just didn't care what they said becuz I had my own life going &
theirs was boring & restrictive.....
others I disliked entirely & knew they really didn't care.
Most of them I was jealous of actually - I wanted to be happy with
God & religion, but I just couldn't/wouldn't be willing to give up
the lifestyle I was in.

Anyways, love to me was weakness & wimpyness or fake or sickening.
& it's no doubt why I don't worship the concept like I see so many
others doing... if something doesn't work or make you respond to it,
then you tend to promote the method that worked more in reaching
you.
Like you, for me it was Truth too. Until God really revealed Himself
to me directly & I saw things for what they were in reality,
THEN the lightbulb came on and I wanted to follow Him.

I'm sure this is why Jude gives 2 forms of reaching others -
thru gentleness and/or warning-fear.
warning doesn't work for some, they respond to love.
Love doesn't work for some, they respond to truth & reality.

I also thank God that He found me and allowed me to learn His truth. It's funny when you look at life through God's perspective, you seem to get a clearer picture of the world and the deception that you've been holding on for so long vanishes in time, especially when you are maturing in Christ.

 

[Nadiine]

I also thank God that He found me and allowed me to learn His truth. It's funny when you look at life through God's perspective, you seem to get a clearer picture of the world and the deception that you've been holding on for so long vanishes in time, especially when you are maturing in Christ.

Boy isn't that the truth (I only hope I'm maturing in Christ -
alot of days I'm really not so sure about that )...

I haven't met 1 converted Christian who wishes that God gave
them more time in their sin life & kept them in the dark longer.
It's amazing what He shows you when you give your life over
to Him.
The ironic thing is that in different perspectives it's a blessing &
curse - in the World's eyes, it's a curse becuz you're not going
along with the world's program & you catch alot of attack for it.
The Blessing is that you see the light & truth & that this isn't
our "world" - we'll be eternally with God becuz we're His
children. =0)

I wish I wasn't so obnoxious & hard headed all those years, but the
only consolation is that I can use that today for something good.

 

[pwsoldier]

I recently came across an article that I think all Christians should read before trying to convert atheists (link).

I agree with those who have said that love is the most important thing when approaching someone. Nothing else is going to come close to converting someone who honestly believes that God does not exist.

 

[Nadiine]

I recently came across an article that I think all Christians should read before trying to convert atheists (link).

I agree with those who have said that love is the most important thing when approaching someone. Nothing else is going to come close to converting someone who honestly believes that God does not exist.

Well noone is knocking Love - but until God is able to penetrate a hard heart (like the person who wrote that page), they'll ignore all the obvious
signs & information that's out there.

I don't care HOW much love a Christian shows, it doesn't convert
a soul until they soften up. They'll just remain a "nice delusional
Christian" instead of a fanatical one.
It took about 13 years for me to finally turn around even when I
DID believe in God.
Paul was out killing Christians when he met up with God one day &
finally changed.

People have to meet up with God one on one when the time is
right.

 

[pwsoldier]

Well noone is knocking Love - but until God is able to penetrate a hard heart (like the person who wrote that page), they'll ignore all the obvious
signs & information that's out there.

I don't care HOW much love a Christian shows, it doesn't convert
a soul until they soften up. They'll just remain a "nice delusional
Christian" instead of a fanatical one.
It took about 13 years for me to finally turn around even when I
DID believe in God.
Paul was out killing Christians when he met up with God one day &
finally changed.

People have to meet up with God one on one when the time is
right.

I think it's safe to say that a majority of atheists will never have any sort of experience that can equate to meeting up with God "one on one". A majority of us have completely hardened our hearts against the concept of God. The point that the article was making is that the only way to soften such a hard heart, short of the highly improbable event of a divine intervention, is to show the Christ-like love that you as Christians are supposed to be renowned for. We don't believe in God, so the burden is left on your shoulders.

 

[chingchang]

I think it's safe to say that a majority of atheists will never have any sort of experience that can equate to meeting up with God "one on one". A majority of us have completely hardened our hearts against the concept of God. The point that the article was making is that the only way to soften such a hard heart, short of the highly improbable event of a divine intervention, is to show the Christ-like love that you as Christians are supposed to be renowned for. We don't believe in God, so the burden is left on your shoulders.

I was an atheist before I became a believer in Jesus Christ...and I can say that you are absolutely correct. It is ALL about love. It is the "royal" law according to James. Paul was very specific about love and what it does. Jesus' greatest commandments involve love. Most atheists won't come to belief in Jesus Christ...that is just going to be that way it is. I am to love them regardless...and I do. I also enjoy being around them because they challenge my belief system...which just affirms what I've learned and makes my faith stronger!

Free Hugs,
CC