Reaching out to atheists: what mistakes do Christians make?

[LightSeaker]

the love of Christ . . . oh how I'd love to go into that here...

Yes, those who claim to be Christian yet deny scriptures as truth
of God, promote Buddhism along w/ Christianity... etc etc.

"Love" without truth isn't promotion of the gospel tho which I see
alot of these days from people claiming to be Christian

The question is, how best to reach out to atheist? The best place to start is with Love.

.

 

[Nadiine]

The question is, how best to reach out to atheist? The best place to start is with Love.

Is she an atheist?

& I guess we could consider tag team approaches with rebukes &
'anonymous' chastizing comments not very "loving" either maybe?

Aside from all that petty stuff, what good is it to reach someone
when a false message would bring them to destruction anyways?
I'd say they're much better off with Atheism than following a
false religion w/ added moral restrictions.
(not taking into considering levels of judgment that is).

 

[LightSeaker]

Aside from all that petty stuff, what good is it to reach someone
when a false message would bring them to destruction anyways?
I'd say they're much better off with Atheism than following a
false religion w/ added moral restrictions.
(not taking into considering levels of judgment that is).

I have a different feeling all together. I feel that even a little bit of Jesus Christ is better than no Jesus Christ. Atheist, even though they do not believe in Jesus as God, they still have an image of Love when they think of Jesus Christ. That's what they expect from what they consider true Lovers of Jesus as well.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Aside from all that petty stuff, what good is it to reach someone
when a false message would bring them to destruction anyways?
I'd say they're much better off with Atheism than following a
false religion w/ added moral restrictions.
(not taking into considering levels of judgment that is).

So much for preach the Gospel huh folks. Better to pack it in before you've even started.

Thank you LightSeaker for giving a hoot.

Thought the thread was moved to an open forum. My B.

 

[The Lady Kate]

I know your posts around CF... this isn't the first time I've met you
as you know.

I know it quite well... but why should that mean anything here?

We have disagreed quite strongly on past issues... but wouldn't it have been more productive (not to mention civil) to approach this thread without baggage from the past?

& personally, I took your post to me as rude..

Why? I simply wanted to make sure that nobody mistakes criticism with "bashing."

The simple fact of it is that many individual Christians as well as churches are completely off-base when it comes to reaching out to nonbelievers... something I'm sure we can both agree on. Surely it's not "bashing" to point that out.

& I'm not bitter - that would be the wrong word entirely.

Well, there was certainly something in your tone that would've been best left behind... call it what you will.

 

[Nathan45]

So much for preach the Gospel huh folks. Better to pack it in before you've even started.

Thank you LightSeaker for giving a hoot.

quick, someone delete this post.

 

[The Lady Kate]

I have a different feeling all together. I feel that even a little bit of Jesus Christ is better than no Jesus Christ. Atheist, even though they do not believe in Jesus as God, they still have an image of Love when they think of Jesus Christ. That's what they expect from what they consider true Lovers of Jesus as well.

It's important to remember that none of us are going to lead anyone to Jesus Christ... only the Holy Spirit can do that. Our role, at best, is to point them in the right general direction... preferably by example. So I agree, even a hint of Christ is better than none.

A person has to want to walk our path, and we need to give them a reason to want it. The "wrath-and-rebuke" approach is counterproductive for the simple reason that someone who doesn't believe in God simply isn't going to fear Him.

 

[The Lady Kate]

The question is, how best to reach out to atheist? The best place to start is with Love.

.

Is she an atheist?

Were I still an Atheist, I'd hardly consider someone who mocks love as someone who takes the Source of all Love all that seriously.

 

[Nadiine]

Were I still an Atheist, I'd hardly consider someone who mocks love as someone who takes the Source of all Love all that seriously.

oh and now I'm mocking love

First bitterness, now this. Gosh what else will I
diagnosed with next?

This is why I posted what I did from the start.
You continually make false & rude accusations.

I assure you, I have much better & productive things
to do in my day than sit here & fester over such petty postings.


I'm sure another mistake 'christians make w/ Atheists
is that they fight & accuse other christians of horrible things

 

[The Lady Kate]

oh and now I'm mocking love

You were going for a joke at something's expense.

Didn't work.

First bitterness, now this. Gosh what else will I
diagnosed with next?

Were I a psychoanalyst, I might say paranoia.

This is why I posted what I did from the start.
You continually make false & rude accusations.

Well, then, why not explain your comment to the lurkers? I'm sure the seekers are quite puzzled by now.

Take a look at your comments thus far and consider what someone seeking the right path would make of it.

I assure you, I have much better & productive things
to do in my day than sit here & fester over such petty postings.

And yet you're still here. Do you really have better and more productive things to do then?

I'm sure another mistake 'christians make w/ Atheists
is that they fight & accuse other christians of horrible things

That wouldn't be a mistake Christians make with Atheists, but a mistake they make with each other. Besides, you haven't accused me of anything horrible... certainly not anything you haven't accused plenty of others before.

I'm sure the seekers won't be offended by you... much.

 

[Nadiine]

You were going for a joke at something's expense.

Didn't work.



Were I a psychoanalyst, I might say paranoia.



Well, then, why not explain your comment to the lurkers? I'm sure the seekers are quite puzzled by now.

Take a look at your comments thus far and consider what someone seeking the right path would make of it.

And yet you're still here. Do you really have better and more productive things to do then?

That wouldn't be a mistake Christians make with Atheists, but a mistake they make with each other. Besides, you haven't accused me of anything horrible... certainly not anything you haven't accused plenty of others before.

I'm sure the seekers won't be offended by you... much.

Yep I'm still here, I just said I dont' FESTER over petty posts, not that
I leave threads if they get tedious or testy... I don't scare easily

Take a look at your comments thus far and consider what someone seeking the right path would make of it.

Well let's look at one of yours for contrast;
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=47983899&postcount=130

My reply is what I stated earlier here regaring this topic:
what good is it to show this "Christian love" while we promote what
the bible directly condemns?
Love by itself doesn't save, God's truth does tho.

they can look thru my posts & notice that I don't support
gay marriages & other immoralities as if God blesses them.
THAT is just as if not more important than "love".

 

[The Lady Kate]

Yep I'm still here, I just said I dont' FESTER over petty posts, not that
I leave threads if they get tedious or testy... I don't scare easily

Why should you be scared? Nobody's accused you or implied anything of the sort.

Well let's look at one of yours for contrast;
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=47983899&postcount=130

Thank you for this blast from the distant past... it's a good thing you weren't FESTERING or anything, and were able to remember an old post of mine from last year by complete coincidence.

My reply is what I stated earlier here regaring this topic:
what good is it to show this "Christian love" while we promote what
the bible directly condemns?

The Bible condemns reaching out to non-believers? Isn't that the crux of the Great Commission? (I ask this simply to keep focused on the topic at hand... I'd hate to assume you've forgotten and drifted off into one of the gay marriage threads)

Love by itself doesn't save, God's truth does tho.

Some might say God's greatest truth is Love. And they might look at John 13:34-35 for comfirmation.

they can look thru my posts & notice that I don't support
gay marriages & other immoralities as if God blesses them.
THAT is just as if not more important than "love".

Glad to hear it... although the lurkers might look at the hundreds of immoralities which the Bible mentions, but modern Christians, including yourself, give a free pass to. They might also wonder about your hangups on gay marriage, to the point of bringing it up in an irrelevent thread... but I'll let you field that question if it ever comes up.

In the meantime, how does stressing God's truths without "love" reach out to non-believers?

 

[LightSeaker]

My reply is what I stated earlier here regaring this topic:
what good is it to show this "Christian love" while we promote what
the bible directly condemns?
Love by itself doesn't save, God's truth does tho.

Just as God IS Love, God's Truth is also Love. Even non-believers understand that. As such, it's a great place to start out in reaching those who do not know God.


.

 

[Nadiine]

Just as God IS Love, God's Truth is also Love. Even non-believers understand that. As such, it's a great place to start out in reaching those who do not know God.


.

I don't recall disagreeing with love, I'm merely making the note
that love without His truth isn't what God calls Christians to.

Showing love while promoting sin or other false religions isn't
leading someone to truth or salvation... (which I see done
on forums often)
Nothing to make a huge issue over - it's true.

 

[Nadiine]

Why should you be scared? Nobody's accused you or implied anything of the sort.

nothing but bitterness and mocking love... other than that,
you're correct.

Thank you for this blast from the distant past... it's a good thing you weren't FESTERING or anything, and were able to remember an old post of mine from last year by complete coincidence.

is THIS loving?

The Bible condemns reaching out to non-believers? Isn't that the crux of the Great Commission? (I ask this simply to keep focused on the topic at hand... I'd hate to assume you've forgotten and drifted off into one of the gay marriage threads)

*sarcasm noted*
But it went to my point, so no, it wasn't off topic.

This thread is about what mistakes Christians make w/ Athiests, no?
So while they may try to show love, if they come with a different gospel
or promotion of evil in God's name, then how is that our Christian duty?
This isn't about secularism, it's specifically about Christian errors
w/ atheists.
So yes, I stand behind what I said, not what you're distorting it into.

Some might say God's greatest truth is Love. And they might look at John 13:34-35 for comfirmation.

Sure, if only they believed the Bible was from God... but that's a whole
other thread

Glad to hear it... although the lurkers might look at the hundreds of immoralities which the Bible mentions, but modern Christians, including yourself, give a free pass to. They might also wonder about your hangups on gay marriage, to the point of bringing it up in an irrelevent thread... but I'll let you field that question if it ever comes up.

Red herring?
How does 1 supposed error invalidate another sin?
Just becuz a person makes a mistake on 1 doctrine doesn't mean
all others they claim are sin become lawful.
& again, my post quote wasn't irrelevant, it went directly to my
point which is directly on topic here.

We can show love all day long, but to go promote what the bible
calls sin is hardly helping an atheist, is it? In fact, it would probly
confuse many. My uncle & grandfather were both hardcore atheists
& they are/were more moral than many posts I read here from people
holding Christian icons.
People make the mistake of thinking Atheists are not moral - many
are.

In the meantime, how does stressing God's truths without "love" reach out to non-believers?

And ANOTHER accusation!
So far we have bitterness, mocking love & without love.
Can't wait to see what the next one will be.

There's such a thing as being DIRECT - or harsh, I disagree with unloving...
So I assume yours are the shining example here in comparison that I
should try to be more like?

 

[LightSeaker]

So I assume yours are the shining example here in comparison that I
should try to be more like?

Assume for a moment that I'm an atheist. (there's no way that I am btw) What would a shining example of Love look like as one tried to reach me? What do you think might catch my ears such that I would actually listened to someone? Or, what might one do?

.

 

[Nadiine]

Assume for a moment that I'm an atheist. (there's no way that I am btw) What would a shining example of Love look like as one tried to reach me? What do you think might catch my ears such that I would actually listened to someone? Or, what might one do?
.

Here's part of the problem - the definition of love itself being used
today.
By the definitions today that remove ANYTHING remotely negative or harsh, that rules out love.
The biblical examples of love include rebuke, correction and exhortation.
Today's version removes all that - it's basically watered down
Joel Osteen teachings.

I've heard atheists for YEARS use the bible to say God is cruel & unloving & unfair.
We can ask them to read many segments of the Bible
including Jesus' rebukes, slave laws, rape laws, wars against
pagan nations, death penalties, harsh statements by Paul, Peter or John, physical anger at the moneychangers by Jesus & ask them the same question & see if they recognize "love". They'll tell you no.

The point is, that this thread is not TO atheists, but asking what
mistakes Christians make. I've listed some that I think are fair -

the views on love today seem to be comparatively relative depending
who you ask.

 

[The Lady Kate]

nothing but bitterness and mocking love... other than that,
you're correct.

What does that have to do with "being scared"?

It's getting very confusing trying to carry on a conversation with you... you're drifting from one unrelated topic to another.

is THIS loving?

I'm agreeing with you... a lesser person might accuse of of FESTERING over petty posts, because you went six months into the past to dig up something I said which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

But you said you weren't the type to do that, so, one Christian to another, I'm willing to take you at your word unless/until you give me reason not to.

*sarcasm noted*

What sarcasm? You drifted off-topic again into gay marriage... I'm simply trying to keep you focused on "Reaching out to atheists: what mistakes do Christians make?"

But it went to my point, so no, it wasn't off topic.

This thread is about what mistakes Christians make w/ Athiests, no?
So while they may try to show love, if they come with a different gospel
or promotion of evil in God's name, then how is that our Christian duty?
This isn't about secularism, it's specifically about Christian errors
w/ atheists.

Wouldn't you consider focusing on one tangental snippet of doctrine to be a mistake when dealing with atheists? I certainly would. I've got far better things to discuss with them than whether homosexuals should marry or not... my own beliefs on the political issue notwithstanding.

So yes, I stand behind what I said, not what you're distorting it into.

Distorting? How odd...

Sure, if only they believed the Bible was from God... but that's a whole other thread

Ah, but they don't necessarily have to believe the Bible was from God in order to agree with it. Truth is Truth no matter where you think it comes from.

Red herring?
How does 1 supposed error invalidate another sin?
Just becuz a person makes a mistake on 1 doctrine doesn't mean
all others they claim are sin become lawful.

We're not talking about 1 doctrine, we're talking about dozens... and no reason to believe that the prohibitions against homosexuality shouldn't be relegated to the same category as "don't eat shellfish," "don't cut your hair," "kill your children if they disrespect you," or any of the others that I sincerely hope you don't actually follow.

An Atheist is going to point out that the Bible condemns any and all sexual shenanigans outside of marriage, be they hetero or homosexual. From a moral POV, the fact that homosexuals want to get married in the first place should be an encouraging sign. From a civil rights POV, married couples enjoy all sorts of benefits and legal rights from the US government, ranging from the convenient to the darn near essential. There is no secular reason why a secular government shouldn't grant those same benefits to any two people who have chosen to make a public lifelong committment to each other.

This, of course, is all on topic because when you confront an Atheist with your one issue, these are just the sort of arguments they are going to counter you with... I'd hate to see a fellow Christian caught flatfooted and resort to hysterics.

& again, my post quote wasn't irrelevant, it went directly to my
point which is directly on topic here.

So you say...

We can show love all day long, but to go promote what the bible
calls sin is hardly helping an atheist, is it? In fact, it would probly
confuse many. My uncle & grandfather were both hardcore atheists
& they are/were more moral than many posts I read here from people
holding Christian icons.

My brother as well is a hardcore Atheist, and he's shown me far more morality, love and support than most of the people here waving a Christian icon around.

People make the mistake of thinking Atheists are not moral - many are.

Preaching to the choir on that one, Nadiine... of course, I never said anything to indicate that Atheists were immoral, so this is where things get confusing again.

And ANOTHER accusation!
So far we have bitterness, mocking love & without love.
Can't wait to see what the next one will be.

Perhaps the next one will come after some of the others are disproven...

There's such a thing as being DIRECT - or harsh, I disagree with unloving...
So I assume yours are the shining example here in comparison that I
should try to be more like?

You assume incorrctly, Nadiine... I would never want you to be anything but yourself. I only hope and pray you someday see yourself for what you are, not what you think you are.

 

[LightSeaker]

Here's part of the problem - the definition of love itself being used today.

Even non-believers know when another is not approaching them with a Heart filled with Love. And when we don't approach others with a Heart filled with Love, that's where the problem is. Not in definitions.

.

 

[Nadiine]

You know... I"m not even going to finish reading another 20
post segments back & forth on this TLK.

Honestly, it's silly and redundant to continue alot of the
petty stuff & sarcasms so I'll summarize one statement as a reply instead
of diving in to reply all those that will only open another
set of issues.

That post quote was right on topic becuz it went to my point
that I had made earlier on.
If you believe what you posted, I would think you'd
have no problem that it's linked?
I also didn't continue on the topic of homosexuality itself,
but the point of contrary moral doctrines they're told
[in the bigger picture, by liberal vs. conservatives] who claim Christianity.

Frankly, seeing the 2 sides bicker daily over what Christianity is,
would make me (if I were atheist) - RUN from it.
THAT is the bigger problem.
Show love all day long & I'm all for it [unless rebuke or
correction are the best response], but as conflicting doctrines
from orthodox & unorthodox/ conservative/liberal continue,
they do more damage than anything as far as I'm concerned.

That's why I find it completely on topic & relevant to this thread.

You assume incorrctly, Nadiine... I would never want you to be anything but yourself. I only hope and pray you someday see yourself for what you are, not what you think you are.

and now you presume to know what "I think I am" too?
it just continues................

You can try to sound as sincere as you might want, but I take
your last paragraph as an insult since it's of a personal nature against
me & not on topic.

So hopefully this can now end becuz I see no more point trying to
explain this over & over.