Reaching out to atheists: what mistakes do Christians make?

[Carpediemxx]

One can believe correctly yet have poor delivery method in ignorance.

Indeed

 

[Im_A]

I think a great many Christians do a terrible job at trying to bring atheists to Christ, and that's because they tend to make sweeping generalizations about them. Once you do things like ridiculously label them all as, say, communists, you just end up pushing people away even further. When I was an atheist, I was never a "communist" nor did I have any desire to deny Christians or anyone else their religious freedom (in fact, I had no problem with voluntary school prayer).

People lose faith in God for various reasons and it's absurd to paint all of them as Madalyn Murray O'Hair clones.

I'm not sure if this area of Christian Forums was the right place to put this, but I'm putting it here because I couldn't seem to find another forum where it would fit.

for me, your "love of Christ" showing thru will not lead me back to faith. my issue is not lack of love. we see amazing Christians loving people in an amazing way, the same as we other religious people doing the same thing. plus in my opinion, if people leave the faith because of failures of the religious folk, that's nonsensical on the person leaving the faith. for several reasons:
1. they have the same issues, so they are being a hypocrite
2. human beings according to religion are described as finite, non-perfect beings. if you want to hunt for an ideal based in perfection, don't make human beings the standard and even looking at it without religious lens, human beings are capable of immense good, and immense immorality. so why would i look to humans to show me an absolute, perfect being?
3. just because one's sensitive heart, mind, emotions are offended, that doesn't give a sense of "rational thought" to just up and give up a belief. that's a purely irrational reason for disbelief that will not stand strong if one is a non-religious person because their emotions got hurt.

so to end this, me as a atheist, there's nothing you can do to lead me to belief. i believed in Christianity for around 13 years of my life. went through strong periods, not so strong periods, constant justifying myself to believe through so many fine tuned thinking, believed in so many different variations of a supposed "one religion". i've met many great Christians in my life, and i know i will do so as i live.

i do not believe god exists. i do not believe god has ever existed, doesn't exist now and will never exist. i believe the god concept is a man made concept without rational, scientific grounding because it requires faith a reasoning beyond our methods of finding the truths of our existence, so any new concept is going to be just that. since science's goal is not to prove or disprove the god concept, any evidence that we find is going to have another explainationn that is more rational than believeing in some god, or a proof of some god. any philsophical reasoning has always failed the tests to prove the god concept where science gives no reason to prove or disprove the concept of god.

what got me to my atheism is, i want pure, unadulterated, sober truth. truth that doesn't support religion, or skeptism and i wanted to be moral and stop lying to myself.

so, by reading your post, it seems your a good guy with a good heart. your goodness will not lead me to christ, because that's not my problem with religion. regardless of the immoral things we do see in religion, that isn't my big problem with religion or the god concept. i've known more good, amazing christians, than i have of radical immoral fanatics. i know Christians are great people.

the only chance you would have to make an impact on me to reconsider my atheism is, you and i would have to have a long discussion, probably for many days to make sure we cover all the areas. i'm talking philosophically, scientifically, ethics, history of our species, using critical examination to come to a conclusion that cannot be denied but has to be accepted regardless of how one feels about it. we'd become pen pals then because, it can't be done in a simple internet post, or a phone coversation or one simple email, or one simple letter in the mail. there's just too many areas to cover and not to mention the fact that i was a serious believer for 13 years. people that know me, my family, my friends, pastors from several churches, highschool teachers, people i've been in relations with me can verify this. so with 13 years behind me and i'm not meaning to boast about this at all, i'm just trying to say, you'd have to show me something that i didn't try all them years prior. besides that, if there is a god, that being is really going to have to open my mind and eyes up because currently i see everything pointing far from that being and convinced of the outcome that, that being doesn't exist.

the only mistakes i could see is, how us atheist are offered time and time again, reasonings and proofs that fail every tests and we aren't offered anything new. and ideas of living that to many of us seem immoral. but with that said, i can't point the finger at the christian or even the atheist. i see no reason to call it a "mistake" tho. because we do not have the same "eyes" as one another. so our perception will never be congruent with one another. its like with everyone. we're not going to find someone that agree eye to eye on everything. we're gonna both have strong disagreements towards each other, things we think are immoral about our thinking, moral about our thinking, things that make sense, things that don't make sense. it seems fruitless to me to say, "look at the christians, they are making so many mistakes with trying to reach us atheists so they need to do this and this to reach us" type of thing. its demeaning to the Christian, and it just does both sides no good.

so sorry for a long response. to end this i say this with conviction, my atheism is strong, and i'm extremely convicted about my atheism...so short of some god breaking every scientific law we have found, breaking every psychological knowledge we have about our senses, our bodies and our minds, at least me personally, the only shot your going to have to even begin to even hope there's a chance out of a million chances for me to believe again, is become friends and let's talk and provide both of our arguments in the fullest, cordial, adult, respectable, kind but bluntly honest manner.

happy st. pattys day

 

[Nadiine]

I'll skip a few disagreements I had thru your post to focus on
what I liked about it.
You say what I've been saying for years now and nobody
listens to me... I often get attacked for not being "loving
enough" (go figure) lol

I have always said that this "love" being shown and promoted
often doesn't reach people like many Christians seem to
think it does for a number of reasons.

Love just doesn't reach some/many people.

With that said, I'm not saying NOT to be nice & kind and
treat people like you'de like to be treated - just that I
think people are somewhat deluded in thinking that
THEY save people by it.
Unless someone is convinced of God on a personal level
with God reaching them & softening their heart,
love won't do anything accept keep them from having
something to point at in accusations.
(altho, attacking them for false kindness is always possible)

So while it's important TO be this way with people who
reject God, it's not doing what they think it is with
everyone. It will only reach those who God is getting
through to.

I didn't respond to love either... so I relate to this and
shared your same feelings. I usually felt it was phony
to begin with.
Even when I felt it was real love from them, it turned
me off anyways. I saw it as weak and lame.
The bottom line was that I wanted to live my own life
my own way.

 

[Tenebrae]

1. Talking at me instead of talking to me. That just leaves me with the feeling of wanting to stick my fingers in my ears.

2. Dont assume that I dont know the bible. I know many other non christians and non christian theists that probably have a better knowledge of the bible than you do.

3. If you want to tell me about your faith, dont form a relationship with me for the sole purpose of witnessing to me and converting me. Get to know me as a person, find out about the things that inspire me and the things that I'm passionate about. Allow me to see the real you, learn something about who you are as a person

4. Dont assume that kindness and genuine concern is somehow weak and wishy washy this is a sucky world at time, and you'd be suprised how far a little bit of genuine concern and kindness can take you.

What speaks to me more about your faith?

Not the christian fundamentalist who is speaking out about the evils of homosexuality and how bad gay marriage is. It was the one who held me, and told me that it didnt matter whether I was gay, or that I'd been a harlot, and a prodomme. Who didnt offer their opinion unless it was asked for, and who asked me how they could support me.

It was their unfailing love and support and non judgemental approach, not their tedious rants against gay people or hookers or sex workers, that helped me to get out of the sex industry. when I was still working, they werent lecturing me every week on how bad the situation was that I was in. I knew that. By being consistent I knew that when I chose to leave I could count on their support, and they were fantastic.

St Francis of Assisi nailed the point well I think. "Preach the gospel at all times and when necessary use words"

 

[Tenebrae]

Its nice to see the thread for non christians being throughly side tracked by christians. Perhaps you could take the debate elsewhere, not derail this platform for non christians to answer the OP

 

[stranger]

Is it not significant to the OP that most who call themselves 'Christian' do not have a clue about what it means, the only reason Jesus gave for his coming as a man ? :

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Why should anyone listen to them at all when they do not have any idea about why Jesus said he had come , have no idea who the lost House of Israel are ?