Reaching out to atheists: what mistakes do Christians make?

[Nadiine]

I was an atheist before I became a believer in Jesus Christ...and I can say that you are absolutely correct. It is ALL about love. It is the "royal" law according to James. Paul was very specific about love and what it does. Jesus' greatest commandments involve love. Most atheists won't come to belief in Jesus Christ...that is just going to be that way it is. I am to love them regardless...and I do. I also enjoy being around them because they challenge my belief system...which just affirms what I've learned and makes my faith stronger!

Free Hugs,
CC

Well the love isn't salvation... & many who claim Christ today promote
& support all kinds of moral sin & reject the scriptures as God's truth to mankind - ie. they make up their own bibles & say they follow God.

So... in fact, I see alot of this "love" today bringing people to a
"love" theology based on Jesus Christ's PHILOSOPHY & then rejecting the Bible as truth & making up their own religions & calling them
Christian.

Love is not the salvation - love without TRUTH (saving knowledge)
is actually useless in eternity.

 

[Nadiine]

I think it's safe to say that a majority of atheists will never have any sort of experience that can equate to meeting up with God "one on one". A majority of us have completely hardened our hearts against the concept of God.

That may be true, but Life has a wierd way of throwing a curve.
My Uncle was a hardcore Atheist all his life - he often avoided my
mom as she was a Baptist Christian (never condemnational & always
loving to him... never preaching about God to him either),
but when he got up in years & got laid off permanently from his lifelong job as a Pharmacist, then had a serious health challenge, then
his father (my grampa) died.... he changed his tune on God when
life got challenging & fear crept in.

Today he's going to home bible studies at my mom's house &
very interested in learning about God.
So... even hard hearts can be changed thru circumstances for
some.

The point that the article was making is that the only way to soften such a hard heart, short of the highly improbable event of a divine intervention, is to show the Christ-like love that you as Christians are supposed to be renowned for. We don't believe in God, so the burden is left on your shoulders.

The burden isn't all on our shoulders - you have equal burden but you often can't get an Atheist to see that.
I like to submit that the interest Atheists have in God & Christian religion
alone proves they do think there's some truth to it to continue wasting
time in something that supposedly doesn't even exist.

But again, as I said, Love is GREAT & nobody is advocating the
Fred Phelps hate signs here... just that I place alot more emphasis
on God's work in the heart than "love".
MANY non Christians are "loving" too, I know some really sweet
ones who are my friends.

 

[chingchang]

Well the love isn't salvation... & many who claim Christ today promote
& support all kinds of moral sin & reject the scriptures as God's truth to mankind - ie. they make up their own bibles & say they follow God.

So... in fact, I see alot of this "love" today bringing people to a
"love" theology based on Jesus Christ's PHILOSOPHY & then rejecting the Bible as truth & making up their own religions & calling them
Christian.

Love is not the salvation - love without TRUTH (saving knowledge)
is actually useless in eternity.

Why are you so quick to downplay Romans 8-10 (KJV) ?:

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

How do we know if we are doing right with regard to our relationship with the atheist? James tells us!

James 2:8 (NIV)
If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.

Atheists don't need the Bible shoved down their throat...they know what it says...they just don't believe it! So...if you are really a child of God...prove it with your love and let God do the saving work!

Never down-play love.

CC

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Why are you so quick to downplay Romans 8-10 (KJV) ?:

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

How do we know if we are doing right with regard to our relationship with the atheist? James tells us!

James 2:8 (NIV)
If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.

Atheists don't need the Bible shoved down their throat...they know what it says...they just don't believe it! So...if you are really a child of God...prove it with your love and let God do the saving work!

Never down-play love.

CC

I don't think she is downplaying love. She's just saying that sometimes love, is not enough to get people to turn to God. Those verse you quote, if you read it, it says that "you fulfill the law" that "you are doing right" it doesn't say that the people are turning to God" or that "you are on the right path to changing others hearts." We all understand that love plays a big role when teaching others about Christ. But we are commanded to teach with love. For faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Sometimes we must open our mouths and proclaim God to others. We can love them to death, but if they don't understand that it comes from God and if we don't tell them about God, then how will they know God?

 

[Nadiine]

I don't think she is downplaying love. She's just saying that sometimes love, is not enough to get people to turn to God. Those verse you quote, if you read it, it says that "you fulfill the law" that "you are doing right" it doesn't say that the people are turning to God" or that "you are on the right path to changing others hearts." We all understand that love plays a big role when teaching others about Christ. But we are commanded to teach with love. For faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Sometimes we must open our mouths and proclaim God to others. We can love them to death, but if they don't understand that it comes from God and if we don't tell them about God, then how will they know God?

yes exactly, and I'm actually getting annoyed at the false
implications that I'm ignoring or implying that love isn't important
at all.

Just that alot of people including NonChristians show "love" to
people. Does the love of a nonChristian lead everyone to reject
Christ the same as it supposedly leads them TO Christ?

Love itself saves no one - it HELPS people physically or
emotionally, but it isn't the holy grail in salvation. (the salvation
process). Without God's drawing and working within the mind
& heart, love is just love.

& I continually seek to challenge our postmodern ideals of what
"love" even is anymore. I follow the Bible's definitions & displays of
love, not the esoteric coddling without truth we see today that's frankly been morphed into something unrealistic.

I pretty much expect these false acusations tho becuz I'm not in bed
w/ the PC crowds & their worship of love over truth/substance.
Instead of balance in both, we have one over another sadly.

 

[chingchang]

yes exactly, and I'm actually getting annoyed at the false
implications that I'm ignoring or implying that love isn't important
at all.

Just that alot of people including NonChristians show "love" to
people. Does the love of a nonChristian lead everyone to reject
Christ the same as it supposedly leads them TO Christ?

Love itself saves no one - it HELPS people physically or
emotionally, but it isn't the holy grail in salvation. (the salvation
process). Without God's drawing and working within the mind
& heart, love is just love.

& I continually seek to challenge our postmodern ideals of what
"love" even is anymore. I follow the Bible's definitions & displays of
love, not the esoteric coddling without truth we see today that's frankly been morphed into something unrealistic.

I pretty much expect these false acusations tho becuz I'm not in bed
w/ the PC crowds & their worship of love over truth/substance.
Instead of balance in both, we have one over another sadly.

O.k. Naadine...how many Atheists have you "won" over to Christ in the past year with your hard-line approach? Exactly. And...for the record...I typed "down-play"...I didn't accuse you of ignoring love.

1 John 4:8 (NIV)
Whoever does notl ove does not know God, because God is love.


CC

 

[Blackmarch]

I think a great many Christians do a terrible job at trying to bring atheists to Christ, and that's because they tend to make sweeping generalizations about them. Once you do things like ridiculously label them all as, say, communists, you just end up pushing people away even further. When I was an atheist, I was never a "communist" nor did I have any desire to deny Christians or anyone else their religious freedom (in fact, I had no problem with voluntary school prayer).

People lose faith in God for various reasons and it's absurd to paint all of them as Madalyn Murray O'Hair clones.

I'm not sure if this area of Christian Forums was the right place to put this, but I'm putting it here because I couldn't seem to find another forum where it would fit.

I think thte first mistake many make is that they try to prove some belief of theirs is wrong.

 

[sunlover1]

1 John 4:8 (NIV)
Whoever does notl ove does not know God, because God is love.


CC

And when we love someone, we tell them the 'truth'.
I can 'love' on someone all day, but they need to hear
me "speak the truth" in love. If I lie to them, what
darn good am I? Just because truth is sometimes
uncomfortable, doesnt make it wrong.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Spirit draws him.
So it's not by might or by power but by His Spirit.

The answer?
Walk out your faith every moment.
As He is, in this world, so are we.
What did Jesus do? He brought the answer to
their problems. We should be problem solvers,
the ones that can offer hope to the hurting.
We carry God, (inside of us) to the lost world.
So speak as He leads, and of course it will always
be... in love.

Love doesnt harm, might feel 'uncomfortable' but
discomfort is a 'good' thing. It warns of a problem.
Something that needs to be 'remedied'

And we HAVE that remedy!

 

[pwsoldier]

That may be true, but Life has a wierd way of throwing a curve.
My Uncle was a hardcore Atheist all his life - he often avoided my
mom as she was a Baptist Christian (never condemnational & always
loving to him... never preaching about God to him either),
but when he got up in years & got laid off permanently from his lifelong job as a Pharmacist, then had a serious health challenge, then
his father (my grampa) died.... he changed his tune on God when
life got challenging & fear crept in.

Today he's going to home bible studies at my mom's house &
very interested in learning about God.
So... even hard hearts can be changed thru circumstances for
some.

I won't deny that people can have a change of heart, but I think it's safe to say that it's a very rare occurrence. And it's important to note that it was your uncle's circumstances, not the witnessing of a Christian, that made him reconsider his worldview. Things like that happen. Every rule has exceptions. But it's still usually a good idea to build your attitude towards non-believers around the rule, and not the exceptions.

The burden isn't all on our shoulders - you have equal burden but you often can't get an Atheist to see that.
I like to submit that the interest Atheists have in God & Christian religion
alone proves they do think there's some truth to it to continue wasting
time in something that supposedly doesn't even exist.

Religion (and Christianity in particular_ plays a huge role in the world we live in. So it behooves us as atheists to try to have at least a basic understanding of it even if we don't see any truth in it. Besides, it's still possible to find certain aspects of different religions fascinating and even beautiful without believing in the doctrines and teachings that they promote. For example, I think the biblical story of Eden is a beautiful and very intriguing allegory of the human race's emergence into consciousness as we evolved as a species. I find many Buddhist beliefs to be very sublime despite the fact that I'm not a Buddhist.

 

[Nadiine]

I won't deny that people can have a change of heart, but I think it's safe to say that it's a very rare occurrence. And it's important to note that it was your uncle's circumstances, not the witnessing of a Christian, that made him reconsider his worldview. Things like that happen. Every rule has exceptions. But it's still usually a good idea to build your attitude towards non-believers around the rule, and not the exceptions.

Actually my mom was a living witness to him all their lives - and
he did talk to her about Christianity several times.
It was a combination of living and verbal witness in consistency.
A living witness IS a witness/testimony - and sometimes a more
powerful one that just sharing information about doctrines.

Religion (and Christianity in particular_ plays a huge role in the world we live in. So it behooves us as atheists to try to have at least a basic understanding of it even if we don't see any truth in it.

From what I see, it's ALOT more than just 'basic understanding' that's
going on.
I see people working to rip it to pieces & cause doubt about God
& Christianity. Some may have general passive interest, but not
many I've ever met.

Additionally, they SHOULD be alot more concerned about Islam since
it's growing and spreading in so many countries - and carries a
whole lot more threat than Christianity ever would.
Islam goes ignored tho ironically. (which again is a big clue to me
about which one they pick out to go after)

Besides, it's still possible to find certain aspects of different religions fascinating and even beautiful without believing in the doctrines and teachings that they promote. For example, I think the biblical story of Eden is a beautiful and very intriguing allegory of the human race's emergence into consciousness as we evolved as a species. I find many Buddhist beliefs to be very sublime despite the fact that I'm not a Buddhist.

I don't see anyone going after Buddhists to try to challenge
their beliefs or get them to doubt their religion any tho . .
they're completely left alone for the most part.

 

[Carpediemxx]

Chamdar, this is a Christian only section of the forums. You may want to check with the moderators and see if they can direct you to the area in which everyone is allowed to post.






Ohhh boy.



And here we go. I pray to GOD that you're not showing up to an atheist meeting purporting to represent Christ and then saying that all humans have a doubt about God's existence.




There's a difference between faith and foolishness. I hope you're not leading them to believe that their foolishness is the equivalent of faith when it is the very absence of faith that causes them to say what they do.



You could interview the devil and he'd probably admit the same.



Why would we be treating them as evil? They are lost just as we all once were. But their foolishness is to be pointed out as such.




Sounds like a religion.



So that's where you got that notion from in the other thread a while back. Dude, rather than salting, you're being salted.





Again, this is foolishness. Ain't nobody who loves Christ and who loves his neighbor as himself gonna sit around and tell folks that God loves them all day without explaining that God also has a wrath that He takes out against those who unrepentently, uncovered in the blood of Christ,sin against Him.


You seem to really be about making folks feel good, and thinking their attempt at morality is in line with that of a Holy God.



Dude, you're a CHRISTIAN. Get an understanding of what faith is. What you described is a lack of faith so why on earth are you telling these folks they have faith when it's obvious that they don't?

Lord Jesus help us if you are the only Christian sharing with them. Where is this group?We need to send some people cause you just ain't up to the work.

I disagree with EVERYTHING you have said. I think that the person you are critising is doing a better job than the majority of christians i have known. Your responses show me that if you were to try to " convert" the many athiest freinds i have, you would have no chance in hell.
The ability to open your mind and listen is just as important, if not arguably more so than the traditional "BE SAVED, or BURN IN HELL"

I praise the Lord for the thoughtfullness of Chamdar, but pray for you
God bless

 

[Nadiine]

I disagree with EVERYTHING you have said. I think that the person you are critising is doing a better job than the majority of christians i have known. Your responses show me that if you were to try to " convert" the many athiest freinds i have, you would have no chance in hell.
The ability to open your mind and listen is just as important, if not arguably more so than the traditional "BE SAVED, or BURN IN HELL"

I praise the Lord for the thoughtfullness of Chamdar, but pray for you
God bless

how about the ENTIRE message of God gets witnessed -
this stereotyping that goes on is tragic.

By the way, it's becuz so many "open their minds" to evil, that
they end up becoming like the world instead of a faithful
follower of Jesus Christ.
They overobsess and get out of balance towards the world
instead of keeping truth. Embracing sin in the process.

These polarizing stereotypes are what are eroding Christianity -
and don't think that you might not be doing this right either.

GOD SAVES, we don't. I dont care how much "love" (which is
so loosely defined in our PC'd world) you show people and
coddle them - until God can work in their hearts, they'll be
hostile to spiritual truth and find ways to attack Christians.

 

[pwsoldier]

Actually my mom was a living witness to him all their lives - and
he did talk to her about Christianity several times.
It was a combination of living and verbal witness in consistency.
A living witness IS a witness/testimony - and sometimes a more
powerful one that just sharing information about doctrines.

Fair enough. I won't comment on this further because I don't want to pry into your private affairs. You know better than I what your uncle went through in his private life, and I respect that.

From what I see, it's ALOT more than just 'basic understanding' that's
going on.
I see people working to rip it to pieces & cause doubt about God
& Christianity. Some may have general passive interest, but not
many I've ever met.

You're right, there are a lot of atheists who study religion (and Christianity in particular) quite enthusiastically in hopes of tearing it down. Personally, I see no reason to tear down someone's faith. I prefer to live and let live. However, I still want to understand the religion that dominates the culture in which I live.

Additionally, they SHOULD be alot more concerned about Islam since
it's growing and spreading in so many countries - and carries a
whole lot more threat than Christianity ever would.
Islam goes ignored tho ironically. (which again is a big clue to me
about which one they pick out to go after)

Actually, there's a pretty significant outcry from atheists in Europe over some of the laws that have been passed recently to accommodate Sharia law. There are things being said that would most likely be considered anti-Muslim bigotry here in the States. Atheists aren't ignorant of the fact that Islam is a rapidly growing religion. We are just as wary of it as we are of Christianity, but the fact remains that Christianity is the most influential religion in Western society, and the US especially.

I'll submit that many of my fellow atheists are overly zealous in their attempts to discredit and tear down Christianity. But you have to think about how atheists are viewed in many parts of the country. In certain regions, we're practically viewed as hell-bound heathens. It's understandable that we would want to fight that image, just as you want to fight the negative things that people say about Christianity.

I don't see anyone going after Buddhists to try to challenge
their beliefs or get them to doubt their religion any tho . .
they're completely left alone for the most part.

Buddhists normally get some slack because Buddhism is a non-theist religion. In fact, there are some atheists who are practicing Buddhists. Atheism means lack of belief in God. It's not necessarily anti-religion. Buddhism is also a very peaceful religion, which can't be said of the Abrahamic religions if you look at Western and Middle-Eastern history.

 

[Carpediemxx]

how about the ENTIRE message of God gets witnessed -
this stereotyping that goes on is tragic.

By the way, it's becuz so many "open their minds" to evil, that
they end up becoming like the world instead of a faithful
follower of Jesus Christ.
They overobsess and get out of balance towards the world
instead of keeping truth. Embracing sin in the process.

These polarizing stereotypes are what are eroding Christianity -
and don't think that you might not be doing this right either.

GOD SAVES, we don't. I dont care how much "love" (which is
so loosely defined in our PC'd world) you show people and
coddle them - until God can work in their hearts, they'll be
hostile to spiritual truth and find ways to attack Christians.

BE SAVED!



Or burn in hell

 

[Nadiine]

BE SAVED!



Or burn in hell

have you read Jesus' message lately?

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
46 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire—
48 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’

Or here?

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you,
unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
--------

Jesus Begins His Galilean Ministry
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.
Repent, and believe in the gospel.”


Typically what folks like you do is claim that people who preach the WHOLE gospel [which includes warning of thepenalty of rejection of Christ], are actually only out screaming 1 hellfire message in a megaphone in hatred.

It's a tired and lame false accusation - & sadly the main reason
we HAVE to preach it is becuz so many fail and refuse to witness
the entire truth of God.

If God warned of it repeatedly, then it shouldn't be ignored in our
witnessing for Him.
If you want to mock it, then you mock God - it's HIS message.

 

[Carpediemxx]

Nah, i dont mock it, i just think your not going to "convert" many people using that method

 

[Carpediemxx]

Also you suggest i do not know the Bible very well, and you have added me into a stereotype "folks like you", which is very nieve. It is wise not to make assumptions about me.
You also suggested that i ignore the whole "fire and sulfur of hell, and all sinners will burn in the lake forever" kinda thing, when i tell people about the message of Christ. This is another assumption ill supported.
Indeed, my original post was just to suggest that people would do well to open their mind, rather than close other people's.

Finally, perhaps you didn't catch the sarcasm in my post, so i will let you know that it was sarcastic. To my horror, i have actually seen "christians" " preach" in this manner, and was most alarmed. I pray that you do not try to retaliate on this matter, since it was no attack.

God bless

 

[Revelation1217]

I think that there are multiple sides to this issue.

 

[Nadiine]

Also you suggest i do not know the Bible very well, and you have added me into a stereotype "folks like you", which is very nieve. It is wise not to make assumptions about me.
You also suggested that i ignore the whole "fire and sulfur of hell, and all sinners will burn in the lake forever" kinda thing, when i tell people about the message of Christ. This is another assumption ill supported.
Indeed, my original post was just to suggest that people would do well to open their mind, rather than close other people's.

Finally, perhaps you didn't catch the sarcasm in my post, so i will let you know that it was sarcastic. To my horror, i have actually seen "christians" " preach" in this manner, and was most alarmed. I pray that you do not try to retaliate on this matter, since it was no attack.

God bless

I have no reason to 'retaliate', and I appreciate that you clarified
that you were using sarcasm.

I come to the defense of Christians often becuz they already have
the world who's against them and fighting God's standard,
I have a hard time accepting it from those who claim to be of
the same family... granted, we all screw up & all should be
held accountable for our wrongs & rebuked where necessary.

I know there's plenty of blame to go around, but the same ones
shoveling it out are also guilty in other ways and things too.
If it's accurate and constructive and fair and based in love (to
help not wound), I see it as a positive step.

When it's blaming Christians for doing what God instructs them
to do and believe, then it's just not ok.
One can believe correctly yet have poor delivery method in ignorance.

Anyways, balance of God's word is key. No, we don't go up hammering
people with hellfire and wrath, but we also shouldn't ignore it.
I find that most Atheists first ASK about hell (and it's usually
quite often).
That's just my personal experience. We know they already know
about that doctrine, so why start with that? We preach
Christ crucified ultimately.

Every once in awhile a wing nut will obsess on damnation - they are
the exception tho from all the Christians I know and churches I've
been to.

 

[Nadiine]

I think that there are multiple sides to this issue.

definitely