Rapture will happen..does it matter when?

[ebedmelech]

"The first resurrection is spiritual! Jesus made that clear to Nicodemus in John 3:1-15"


The born again experience is not a resurrection son .... it is a necessary infilling of the Lord's spirit into the man for his salvation

A resurrection is a changing into immortality .... a transformation

There are two types .... the first one to immortality and there are more than one of these scheduled at different times in Scripture

The second is the one to the second death of a man's spirit .... only one of these

Obviously you're missing on the many synonyms concerning salvation. Just as I correlated it in my scripture references. They all speak of salvation. You and Psalm3704 have missed the point.

Think about why Nicodemus asked "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” . The point being that when one is "born again" they come to life in Christ. Think about it...BIRTH IS LIFE!!!

 

[ebedmelech]

Well the guy who said that didn't bothered to research what the bible meant by the last day, nor did he take into consideration if the last day meant the last day of the week or the last day of the year or the last day of Christ on earth just before He died on the cross. Without giving any though of the number of resurrections ahead, he just assumed the resurrection on the last day was the last resurrection at the great white throne before God, which the bible calls the second resurrection.

Jesus said "I will raise him up on the last day." Jesus resurrects everyone during the first resurrection(s). God is the one who resurrects everyone at the final resurrection before the GWT. Meaning Jesus said "I will" not say "God will" raise him up on the last day. So you can throw that theory about the last day at the GWT out the window.



That also applies to you Eb. Jesus wasn't talking to Nicodemus about a resurrection. He was talking about being born again, a spiritual rebirth.



Here Jesus was talking to Martha about the resurrection. He was not talking to her about being born again as He did with Nicodemus.



That's not the first resurrection and that's also not the second resurrection.

If that to you is the second resurrection, than what's the resurrection at the great white throne, the third resurrection? This is not possible nor mentioned in the bible. The first resurrection(s) belongs to and are performed by Jesus who judges the righteous. The second resurrection belongs to and is performed by God who judges the sinners.

You can't claim to know when the rapture happens if you first don't understand the first and second resurrections.

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This is why you passed on the Romans, Ephesians, and Colossians passages. You can't deny what they say. All passages are nothing more than different ways scripture describes the salvation experience.

When Jesus said "I am the resurrection AND the life" you simply don't get it. He then goes on to say "he who believes in Me will live even if he dies," ...

How does that happen?

 

[Psalm3704]

Obviously you're missing on the many synonyms concerning salvation. Just as I correlated it in my scripture references. They all speak of salvation. You and Psalm3704 have missed the point.

Think about why Nicodemus asked "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” . The point being that when one is "born again" they come to life in Christ. Think about it...BIRTH IS LIFE!!!

Geez Eb! This is one of the most basic stuff about the gospel and you're missing the mark left and right. Look what Jesus said to Nicodemus in verse 10. He rebuked Nicodemus for being ignorant because he thought Jesus was talking about a literal rebirth and not a spiritual rebirth.

John 3:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?​

You're concentrating too much on what Nicodemus said and not listening to what Jesus said.






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[ebedmelech]

Geez Eb! This is one of the most basic stuff about the gospel and you're missing the mark left and right. Look what Jesus said to Nicodemus in verse 10. He rebuked Nicodemus for being ignorant because he thought Jesus was talking about a literal rebirth and not a spiritual rebirth.

John 3:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?​

You're concentrating too much on what Nicodemus said and not listening to what Jesus said..

No...you're the one missing...Jesus said "you must be born again"...think about how that happens! It is Paul who repeatedly says God MADE US ALIVE TOGETHER WITH CHRIST...how were you made alive if you're already living? The same way you must be born again...when you're already living.

Before salvation you're alive in the world but dead to God. This isn't hard...but you're making it that way.

 

[Psalm3704]

This is why you passed on the Romans, Ephesians, and Colossians passages. You can't deny what they say. All passages are nothing more than different ways scripture describes the salvation experience.

When Jesus said "I am the resurrection AND the life" you simply don't get it. He then goes on to say "he who believes in Me will live even if he dies," ...

How does that happen?

Eb, I also passed on commenting you for pulling numerous verses out of context, meshing them all together to form one big fallacy. I passed on the Romans, Ephesians, and Colossians passages for the same reason, because that's all you were doing, pulling verses out of context.

Now, instead of brushing it aside, why don't you go back and comment on what I said about the "Only a pre-trib rapture falls on the last day."







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[Psalm3704]

No...you're the one missing...Jesus said "you must be born again"...think about how that happens! It is Paul who repeatedly says God MADE US ALIVE TOGETHER WITH CHRIST...how were you made alive if you're already living? The same way you must be born again...when you're already living.

It's call a personal relationship with God through the holy spirit. John 14-16, read it and learn.

No relationship = you're dead!

A relationship with God = Alive!





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[ebedmelech]

It's call a personal relationship with God through the holy spirit. John 14-16, read it and learn.

No relationship = you're dead!

A relationship with God = Alive!.

Still missing the point. It's clear when Adam sinned he DIED SPIRITUALLY first...and physically later. Recall 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22:
21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Notice I let the scripture speak...you didn't...you impose your reasoning on scripture.

 

[Psalm3704]

Still missing the point. It's clear when Adam sinned he DIED SPIRITUALLY first...and physically later. Recall 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22:
21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Notice I let the scripture speak...you didn't...you impose your reasoning on scripture.

This is old news Eb! Why anyone would need to argue over this topic is foolish! Everyone knows that Adam sinned, everyone knows Adam died a spiritual death and everyone knows 900 years later he died a physical death. This is Sunday school lesson 101 material. Old news Eb!

Instead, tells us something we don't know. Why did God cover Adam and Eve in garments when He visited them when they were already covered with fig leaves?







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[ebedmelech]

This is old news Eb! Why anyone would need to argue over this topic is foolish! Everyone knows that Adam sinned, everyone knows Adam died a spiritual death and everyone knows 900 years later he died a physical death. This is Sunday school lesson 101 material. Old news Eb!

Instead, tells us something we don't know. Why did God cover Adam and Eve in garments when He visited them when they were already covered with fig leaves?.

This may be old news but you've missed what the news is saying. We all died spiritually in Adam, so we who are saved have been resurrected spiritually in Christ, which is the "first resurrection". It makes us ALIVE TO GOD which is why Paul explains we have been RAISED to walk in newness of life. It's spiritual and you simply can see it even though it's right there. Romans 6 makes this so plain and it's obvious you can't see it, and I can't help you see it.

Perhaps one day the Holy Spirit will help you see "the first resurrection".

I posted this to another member a while back clearly pointing out the "first resurrection". This is not just in response to you because I know others read in these threads, so they too can consider what the scripture is saying:

What you have in the "spiritual resurrection" of Romans 6, Ephesians 2, and Colossians 3...is the apostle telling us in spiritual terms that we are resurrected from spiritual death, which separated us from God...and that Christ has RAISED us (resurrected us), the word is "synegeiro" in Greek...to WALK A NEW LIFE IN HIM. Just as Paul associates baptism as DYING TO SIN (buried with Him), and being raised (resurrected) in Christ to NEWNESS OF LIFE.

This is "synegeiro" from Blue Letter Bible:
Greek Lexicon :: G4891 (NASB)

The Greek "egerio" is used for the actual physical resurrection. You can see that if you look up as it is used in Romans 6:4 of Christ's physical resurrection.

The prefix "syn" is placed in front of it (synegeiro) which you could say makes is "synthetic" OR a "synthetic resurrection"! So the point made is a "spiritual resurrection" of us when we come to Christ.

That Spirtual reality will manifest itself in the physical ressurection to come.

For those interested in studying this out...this is a very well done study of the first and second resurrections described in scripture:
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/first-and-second-resurrection/

 

[Riberra]

"Only a pre-trib rapture falls on the last day."

Can you back that claim from the Scriptures ?I doubt that you can.

 

[Psalm3704]

Can you back that claim from the Scriptures ?I doubt that you can.

OF COURSE I CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SLAM DUNK EASY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Riberra, haven't you learned by now? I never ever make claims or ask a question about prophecy unless I already know the answer and can back it up.

If I ever write something I'm not sure about, I will tell readers I'm speculating.

This is how I've always done things here.

_________________________________________

The post-tribulation rapture happens after the tribulation. Post means after. Am I wrong?

Matthew 24:29 New King James Version (NKJV)
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.​

Riberra,

How can the post-tribulation rapture fall on the last day of the tribulation? That's not after the tribulation!

The last day of the tribulation is still within the tribulation!

Throw the post-tribulation rapture theory out the window! It doesn't fit the last day scenario.

____________________________________

Riberra,

ONLY A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE FALLS ON THE LAST DAY.

Do you know what "Pre" means?










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[Psalm3704]

This may be old news but you've missed what the news is saying. We all died spiritually in Adam, so we who are saved have been resurrected spiritually in Christ, which is the "first resurrection". It makes us ALIVE TO GOD which is why Paul explains we have been RAISED to walk in newness of life. It's spiritual and you simply can see it even though it's right there. Romans 6 makes this so plain and it's obvious you can't see it, and I can't help you see it.

Perhaps one day the Holy Spirit will help you see "the first resurrection".

I posted this to another member a while back clearly pointing out the "first resurrection". This is not just in response to you because I know others read in these threads, so they too can consider what the scripture is saying:

What you have in the "spiritual resurrection" of Romans 6, Ephesians 2, and Colossians 3...is the apostle telling us in spiritual terms that we are resurrected from spiritual death, which separated us from God...and that Christ has RAISED us (resurrected us), the word is "synegeiro" in Greek...to WALK A NEW LIFE IN HIM. Just as Paul associates baptism as DYING TO SIN (buried with Him), and being raised (resurrected) in Christ to NEWNESS OF LIFE.

This is "synegeiro" from Blue Letter Bible:
Greek Lexicon :: G4891 (NASB)

The Greek "egerio" is used for the actual physical resurrection. You can see that if you look up as it is used in Romans 6:4 of Christ's physical resurrection.

The prefix "syn" is placed in front of it (synegeiro) which you could say makes is "synthetic" OR a "synthetic resurrection"! So the point made is a "spiritual resurrection" of us when we come to Christ.

That Spirtual reality will manifest itself in the physical ressurection to come.

For those interested in studying this out...this is a very well done study of the first and second resurrections described in scripture:
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/first-and-second-resurrection/

I see you still passed on answering the question. You seem to be pretty bad at dodging a simple question with your strawman.









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[Riberra]

ONLY A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE FALLS ON THE LAST DAY.

Do you know what "Pre" means?

Do you know what LAST DAY mean ?

/Pre/ which mean /before/ cannot happen on the LAST DAY.

 

[Psalm3704]

That Spirtual reality will manifest itself in the physical ressurection to come.

For those interested in studying this out...this is a very well done study of the first and second resurrections described in scripture:
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/first-and-second-resurrection/

We have two ebedmelech on CF.

I know this because yesterday ebedmelech #1 claims the first resurrection is spiritual involving one being born again.

Yesterday ebedmelech #1 wrotes:

The first resurrection is spiritual! Jesus made that clear to Nicodemus in John 3:1-15.

Jesus defined it when He spoke before raising Lazarus from the dead...read carefully...John 11:25, 26 as Jesus responded to Martha:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”​

The first resurrection is spiritual! Jesus made that clear to Nicodemus in John 3:1-15.

Jesus defined it when He spoke before raising Lazarus from the dead...read carefully...John 11:25, 26 as Jesus responded to Martha:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Today ebedmelech #2 writes:

"That Spirtual reality will manifest itself in the physical ressurection to come."

​

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Now there can be absolutely no way ebedmelech just realized he was wrong after digging for information on the 1st and 2nd resurrection on google last night and realized the 1st resurrection is a physical resurrection from all the websites he visited and feels the embarrassment to cover up his error by changing his stance and posting a link.

This definitely didn't happen right eb? It's ok, you can deny it, nobody reads this stuff anyways.












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[Psalm3704]

Do you know what LAST DAY mean ?

Nope, sure don't.

Now tell us when is the last day as mentioned in the bible, Riberra.











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[Riberra]

Nope, sure don't.

Now tell us when is the last day as mentioned in the bible, Riberra.

If you don't know that the LAST day mean exactly what it means ...ie the LAST.

Then you admit that your statement is only hot air and means nothing.

''ONLY A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE FALLS ON THE LAST DAY.''

 

[Psalm3704]

Then you admit that your statement is only hot air and means nothing.

''ONLY A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE FALLS ON THE LAST DAY.''

No, my last day and your last day aren't the same. You probably think the last day is the day of the great white throne judgement.

Again ''ONLY A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE FALLS ON THE LAST DAY.''

You're good at avoiding the question aren'tt you? When's the last day mentioned in the bible Riberra?







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[Psalm3704]

Riberra,

Your definitely of last day is not the same as Jesus'.

There lies your problem.







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[Riberra]

No, my last day and your last day aren't the same. You probably think the last day is the day of the great white throne judgement.

No ,we know that the caught up (Rapture) to meet Jesus in the air will happen unto the Coming of Jesus AFTER the tribulation.
Those who study the Bible know that because there is only one Coming of Jesus yet to come.
The Coming of Jesus will be the LAST DAY of the tribulation and the destruction of the sinners which will put and End to our present civilization....and the beginning of the Kingdom of Jesus.

 

[Psalm3704]

I see you're still avoiding the question.

No ,we know that the caught up (Rapture) to meet Jesus in the air will happen unto the Coming of Jesus AFTER the tribulation.
Those who study the Bible know that because there is only one Coming of Jesus yet to come.

The day AFTER the tribulation is not the last day. Get it through your knuckle head, the post-tribulation rapture falls on the first day of the millennium.

Only with Riberra can we get boring and dumb debates.







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