Rapture will happen..does it matter when?

[iamlamad]

The resurrection precedes the "rapture" (gathering) of the survivors (this is clearly stated in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). The first resurrection includes the beheaded who don't take the mark of the beast in the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4-6... see Revelation 13 and 14 for more on the mark of the beast). The next big thing is the Tribulation and all its signs. After that, the return of Christ with the resurrection and the gathering.

Matthew 24 is for disciples of Jesus, whether Jewish or Gentile... just like everything else Jesus taught.

You do know that the "first" as in the "first resurrection" in Rev. 20 does NOT mean first in sequence, but first in priority? The same word was translated as "chief" also. It will be the CHIEF of resurrections because it is the ONLY resurrection for the righteous. The two witnesses will take part in it - and they are resurrected some weeks before Jesus returns.

The dead in Christ will take part in this CHIEF of resurrections, and their timing will be over 7 years before Jesus returns. In fact, JESUS was a part of the CHIEF resurrection, but He came first, about 2000 years before anyone else.

 

[iamlamad]

The wrath of the Lamb is coming and when it does the whole world will know that His judgment has begun [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

Revelation 6:12-17 is the portent that defines His coming judgment which will begin in chapter 8

The conditions of this portent will be prevalent throughout the tribulation period .... the same for the first 5 portents [seals]

The 7th portent [seal] tells of a short silence in heaven just before the judgments begin to fall

It really is hard for you to let go of things, isn't it!

The first seal was the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL. Pray tell us, what "portent" is this going to be for the days of tribulation?

Will the Red horse (who has caused war for centuries) be bringing war? OF COURSE there will be war, as the man of sin will take out 3 of ten nations. Ezekiel 38 will take place. But will these be the RED HORSE? I doubt it.

The black horse has brought famine over the years. Will he be causing famine during the 70th week? I doubt it. The two witnesses will be causing NO RAIN. That will bring famine.

These seals are for the CHURCH AGE. There is no scripture that tells us they will continue on into the days of tribulation. If you doubt me, then show us the scriptures.

 

[iamlamad]

Indeed, people go round and round on here all the time. I'm not going to waste our time if your heart isn't open.

I don't think you're hearing me, Farouk. Pre-tribulation rapture is not in the Bible. Two or three verses are used to try to justify it, and a lot of teachers teach it and try to silence those who would question it but the Bible does not teach pre-Tribulation rapture (gathering). The Bible does teach that the time will come when people won't tolerate sound doctrine and they will heap up for themselves teachers who teach what they want to hear, which are fables (2 Timothy 4:3-4). 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is about salvation from the penalty of our sin (a place in the eternal Lake of Fire) not what happens to a believer in their physical life. The gathering of the surviving believers in Christ doesn't happen until after the resurrection, which includes saints slain in the Great Tribulation. It also happens at His coming, which is clearly described as post-Tribulation (the Great Tribulation). See Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 1-2 (esp. 2:1-4), Revelation 20:4-6. Jesus will stay in heaven until He comes back to restore all things (after the Great Tribulation and not before it) (Acts 3:21).

AGain what you mean to say is that YOU CAN'T FIND IT. On the other hand, MILLIONS of people have found pretrib in their bibles. Perhaps you need a different bible. May I suggest you read 2 thes. 2 in Miles Coverdale bible? Or the Tyndale New Testament? Paul tells us there must come a departing first, before the man of sin can be revealed. Paul tells us that the one restraining (and Paul says now we know who) must be "taken out of the way." Paul tells us the very THEME of this passage is His coming and the gathering. It is SO OBVIOUS! The church will be "taken out of the way." the Departing (of the Bride of Christ) must depart first, and THEN the man of sin will be revealed.

Paul did not change his mind between his first and second letter. In his first letter, he told us a SUDDENLY was coming. What will that sudden event be? Of course the dead in Christ rising. AT the SUDDENLY two groups of people will get two different results: those living IN CHRIST will be raptured and get to "live together with Him (so shall we ever be with the Lord). Those living in the darkness will get sudden destruction: a terrible worldwide earthquake caused by the dead in Christ rising. It will be the very same earthquake we see at the 6th seal.

Paul also told us that this great earthquake will be the start of the "day of the Lord." John backs this up as "the day of His wrath has come." John then clinches the nails on the pretrib rapture, showing us the raptured church IN HEAVEN right after the 6th seal.

By the way, just ONE PASSAGE blows your theory out of the water, so to speak. John shows us the marriage and supper will be IN HEAVEN before Jesus comes to earth. So in your theory the entire church will MISS THE MARRIAGE. Ever watch the movie, "run away bride?" Well, God is not going to allow an run away bride: He will come PRETRIB and get those who are expecting Him. We will spend those 7 years in heaven. We will BE THERE for the wedding. It appears you will miss it.

All I can say is, I hope your theory works out for you. I cannot find it anywhere in scripture.

 

[iamlamad]

Strongly Jewish background to Matthew; I'm not sure it's the church in view here. As I see it, the rapture is in view in 1 Thess. 4, the next big event for the church, not signs and wonders.

I agree 100%. The Olivet discourse is not about the church. We don't go to synagogues.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Straightshot]

Your views and mine are miles apart V4

Study on

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Psalm3704]

The day of the Lord is the same as the day of Christ and it begins after the great tribulation has ended.

Nope! Absolutely, undeniably, utterly wrong! His arrival to earth doesn't begin after the great tribulation.

~Who ends the tribulation by killing the antichrist at His coming? "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved" ~ Matthew 24:22
~Why do we need Jesus to come and end the tribulation before everyone nukes each other's head off? "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved" ~ Matthew 24:22
~How will the tribulation end with anyone alive if Christ comes to earth after the tribulation? "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved" ~ Matthew 24:22

vinsight4u, Pay attention and learn something new!

Your doctrine on a post-tribulation rapture involving Christ descending upon the earth after the tribulation falls apart under scrutiny. Read Luke 21:26-27. Does this sound anything like the tribulation is over? Does this sound anything like Christ coming to earth after the tribulation?

Luke 21:26-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.​

Luke 21:26 (KJV) Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Luke 21:26 (BBE) Men's strength will go from them in fear and in waiting for the things which are coming on the earth; for the powers of the heavens will be moved.

Luke 21:26 (GNT) People will faint from fear as they wait for what is coming over the whole earth, for the powers in space will be driven from their courses.

Luke 21:26 (GW) People will faint as they fearfully wait for what will happen to the world. Indeed, the powers of the universe will be shaken.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/21-26-compare.html​

vinsign4u, where does Christ go to when He descends upon the earth? He goes straight to Armageddon to defeat the a/c and end the war! He does not circle the globe for a cameo before saving the world from a nuclear annihilation. Every second counts. All it takes is one second for a maniac to press a button and launch a nuclear warhead over a metropolis killing millions. "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved" ~ Matthew 24:22

Isaiah 26:19 - 27:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.

21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.
1 In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
Leviathan that twisted serpent;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.​

Revelation 16:12-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” 16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.​

vinsight4u, Christ leaves heaven at the 6th vial heading to Armageddon. The tribulation hasn't ended yet. You still have a 7th vial. The tribulation ends after the 7th and last vial.

1) How can there be a post-trib rapture when Christ doesn't come to earth after the tribulation?

2) How can there be a post-trib rapture when Christ doesn't come to earth after the tribulation?

3) How can there be a post-trib rapture when Christ doesn't come to earth after the tribulation?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

vinsight4u, Pay attention and learn something new!

1) Christ's coming in Luke 21:26-27 is not the same event found in Matthew 24:29-30 and Mark 13:24-26.

2) Christ's coming in Luke 21:26-27 is not the same event found in Matthew 24:29-30 and Mark 13:24-26.

3) Christ's coming in Luke 21:26-27 is not the same event found in Matthew 24:29-30 and Mark 13:24-26.

When Christ leaves heaven and descends upon Armageddon and to judge the world, He comes on "a" cloud (singular).

After the tribulation, Christ is seem on clouds (plural).

Luke 21:26-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:29-30 New King James Version (NKJV)
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mark 13:24-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Christ on a cloud during the judgement. (singular)

Revelation 14:14-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

After the tribulation, Christ is then seem on clouds (plural).

Matthew 24:29-30 New King James Version (NKJV)
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mark 13:24-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.​

vinsight4u, guess why Christ is now on many clouds?

vinsight4u, guess why Christ is now on many clouds?

vinsight4u, guess why Christ is now on many clouds?

Isn't the answer obvious? The tribulation is not over before or at Armageddon. You still have the 7th vial. The 7th vial involves massive thunderstorms.

Guess who will put out all the firestorms from the nuclear war? Guess who will bring in massive thunderstorms that can produce 100 pound hails to extinguish all the fires? Guess what the 7th vial is for?

At the end, Jesus will return to earth like the rain, massive rain! He will flood the Middle East putting out all the fires.

Hosea 6:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.
3 Let us know,
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.
His going forth is established as the morning;
He will come to us like the rain,
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.

Matthew 24:27 New King James Version (NKJV)
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Daniel 9:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.​

Then is when He has time and finally appears to everyone on earth while coming on clouds after the tribulation! Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Revelation 1:7.

Revelation 1:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.​

Bottom line. Not such thing as a post-tribulation rapture because He doesn't descend upon Armageddon after the tribulation.

The different between Luke 21:26-27 versus Matthew 24:29-30 is at least 75 days. I'll let you figure out how to get the number of days.









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[Psalm3704]

Verse 31 is not the rapture. Read it carefully, the elects are gathered from heaven. You can't rapture people already in heaven. Read my signature. Scrutiny is king. The 6th seal doesn't happen near the end of the tribulation either.

Read the more complete version in Mark 13:27.
"And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather
together His elect from the...earth...heaven."

Mark 13:27 is the same as Matthew 24:29-31, the elects are also gathered from heaven. You can't rapture people already in heaven. Meaning Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:27 is not the rapture.

Mark 13:27 New King James Version (NKJV)
And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.​

Do you know who the elects being gather on earth are? They're the 144,000.

The elects of the church are the Firstfruit. The elects of Israel are the 144,000. The elects are the chosen ones of God.

Pay attention vinsight because this is the gathering on earth after the tribulation. Do you see a rapture in any of the scriptures below? There's none, no rapture whatsoever.

God has always regathered the Jewish people back to their homeland after being scattered, whether it be immediately after or 70 years after or 2000 years after, God always brings His people back to the land He promised to Abraham.

There has never been a rapture involving any gatherings in the past, there will not be one this time either. The only difference is, this time will be their last gathering and this time, Christ is waiting for them in Jerusalem after He sends His angels to gather.

If you haven't figured it out, in the rapture, we meet Christ, not His angels.

Isaiah 49:8-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 Thus says the Lord:

“In an acceptable time I have heard You,
And in the day of salvation I have helped You;
I will preserve You and give You
As a covenant to the people,
To restore the earth,
To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages;
9 That You may say to the prisoners, ‘Go forth,’
To those who are in darkness, ‘Show yourselves.’

“They shall feed along the roads,
And their pastures shall be on all desolate heights.
10 They shall neither hunger nor thirst,
Neither heat nor sun shall strike them;
For He who has mercy on them will lead them,
Even by the springs of water He will guide them.
11 I will make each of My mountains a road,
And My highways shall be elevated.
12 Surely these shall come from afar;
Look! Those from the north and the west,
And these from the land of Sinim.”

13 Sing, O heavens!
Be joyful, O earth!
And break out in singing, O mountains!
For the Lord has comforted His people,
And will have mercy on His afflicted.

14 But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me,
And my Lord has forgotten me.”
15 “Can a woman forget her nursing child,
And not have compassion on the son of her womb?
Surely they may forget,
Yet I will not forget you.
16 See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands;
Your walls are continually before Me.
17 Your sons shall make haste;
Your destroyers and those who laid you waste
Shall go away from you.
18 Lift up your eyes, look around and see;
All these gather together and come to you.
As I live,” says the Lord,
“You shall surely clothe yourselves with them all as an ornament,
And bind them on you as a bride does.

19 “For your waste and desolate places,
And the land of your destruction,
Will even now be too small for the inhabitants;
And those who swallowed you up will be far away.
20 The children you will have,
After you have lost the others,
Will say again in your ears,
‘The place is too small for me;
Give me a place where I may dwell.’
21 Then you will say in your heart,
‘Who has begotten these for me,
Since I have lost my children and am desolate,
A captive, and wandering to and fro?
And who has brought these up?
There I was, left alone;
But these, where were they?’”

22 Thus says the Lord God:

“Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the nations,
And set up My standard for the peoples;
They shall bring your sons in their arms,
And your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders;
23 Kings shall be your foster fathers,
And their queens your nursing mothers;
They shall bow down to you with their faces to the earth,
And lick up the dust of your feet.
Then you will know that I am the Lord,
For they shall not be ashamed who wait for Me.”

24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty,
Or the captives of the righteous be delivered?

25 But thus says the Lord:

“Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away,
And the prey of the terrible be delivered;
For I will contend with him who contends with you,
And I will save your children.
26 I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh,
And they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine.
All flesh shall know
That I, the Lord, am your Savior,
And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”

Ezekiel 39:21-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’

25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations,28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”

Jeremiah 31:1-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 “At the same time,” says the Lord, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people.”

2 Thus says the Lord:

“The people who survived the sword
Found grace in the wilderness—
Israel, when I went to give him rest.”

3 The Lord has appeared of old to me, saying:
“Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt,
O virgin of Israel!
You shall again be adorned with your tambourines,
And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.
5 You shall yet plant vines on the mountains of Samaria;
The planters shall plant and eat them as ordinary food.
6 For there shall be a day
When the watchmen will cry on Mount Ephraim,
‘Arise, and let us go up to Zion,
To the Lord our God.’”

7 For thus says the Lord:

“Sing with gladness for Jacob,
And shout among the chief of the nations;
Proclaim, give praise, and say,
‘O Lord, save Your people,
The remnant of Israel!’
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country,
And gather them from the ends of the earth,
Among them the blind and the lame,
The woman with child
And the one who labors with child, together;
A great throng shall return there.
9 They shall come with weeping,
And with supplications I will lead them.
I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters,
In a straight way in which they shall not stumble;
For I am a Father to Israel,
And Ephraim is My firstborn.

10 “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations,
And declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
‘He who scattered Israel will gather him,
And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’
11 For the Lord has redeemed Jacob,
And ransomed him from the hand of one stronger than he.
12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion,
Streaming to the goodness of the Lord—
For wheat and new wine and oil,
For the young of the flock and the herd;
Their souls shall be like a well-watered garden,
And they shall sorrow no more at all.

13 “Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance,
And the young men and the old, together;
For I will turn their mourning to joy,
Will comfort them,
And make them rejoice rather than sorrow.
14 I will satiate the soul of the priests with abundance,
And My people shall be satisfied with My goodness, says the Lord.”​

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[ebedmelech]

The rapture is concurrent with the resurrection! Dead believers rise first and living believers are caught to meet the Lord in the air.

The total misunderstanding is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 which is Pail's abbreviated way of saying the same thing 1 Corinthians 15:20-58 says.

All happens on THE LAST DAY...just as Jesus said repeatedly in John 6.

 

[Psalm3704]

The rapture is concurrent with the resurrection! Dead believers rise first and living believers are caught to meet the Lord in the air.

The total misunderstanding is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 which is Pail's abbreviated way of saying the same thing 1 Corinthians 15:20-58 says.

All happens on THE LAST DAY...just as Jesus said repeatedly in John 6.

The last time someone posted the rapture happening on the last day, he later confessed the last day being the day God resurrects everyone before the great white throne judgement. As in the 2nd resurrection.

But of all things, a preterist should know this was already fulfilled in the first century.

Only a pre-trib rapture falls on the last day.







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[ebedmelech]

The last time someone posted the rapture happening on the last day, he later confessed the last day being the day God resurrects everyone before the great white throne judgement. As in the 2nd resurrection.

But of all things, a preterist should know this was already fulfilled in the first century.

Only a pre-trib rapture falls on the last day.
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Whoever that was simply couldn't correlate the scripture.

The first resurrection is spiritual! Jesus made that clear to Nicodemus in John 3:1-15.

Jesus defined it when He spoke before raising Lazarus from the dead...read carefully...John 11:25, 26 as Jesus responded to Martha:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Paul makes it clear in Romans 6:1-11, Ephesians 2:1-7 and Colossian 3:8-14.

The first resurrection makes one alive to God through Jesus our Lord...the second resurrection is that of dead believers at the return of Christ...and living believers are raptured.

Furthermore it is Jesus who will raise from the dead...John 6:40:
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

 

[Straightshot]

"The first resurrection is spiritual! Jesus made that clear to Nicodemus in John 3:1-15"


The born again experience is not a resurrection son .... it is a necessary infilling of the Lord's spirit into the man for his salvation

A resurrection is a changing into immortality .... a transformation

There are two types .... the first one to immortality and there are more than one of these scheduled at different times in Scripture

The second is the one to the second death of a man's spirit .... only one of these

 

[Psalm3704]

Whoever that was simply couldn't correlate the scripture.

Well the guy who said that didn't bothered to research what the bible meant by the last day, nor did he take into consideration if the last day meant the last day of the week or the last day of the year or the last day of Christ on earth just before He died on the cross. Without giving any though of the number of resurrections ahead, he just assumed the resurrection on the last day was the last resurrection at the great white throne before God, which the bible calls the second resurrection.

Jesus said "I will raise him up on the last day." Jesus resurrects everyone during the first resurrection(s). God is the one who resurrects everyone at the final resurrection before the GWT. Meaning Jesus said "I will" not say "God will" raise him up on the last day. So you can throw that theory about the last day at the GWT out the window.

Whoever that was simply couldn't correlate the scripture.

The first resurrection is spiritual! Jesus made that clear to Nicodemus in John 3:1-15.

That also applies to you Eb. Jesus wasn't talking to Nicodemus about a resurrection. He was talking about being born again, a spiritual rebirth.

Jesus defined it when He spoke before raising Lazarus from the dead...read carefully...John 11:25, 26 as Jesus responded to Martha:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Here Jesus was talking to Martha about the resurrection. He was not talking to her about being born again as He did with Nicodemus.

The first resurrection makes one alive to God through Jesus our Lord...the second resurrection is that of dead believers at the return of Christ...and living believers are raptured.

That's not the first resurrection and that's also not the second resurrection.

If that to you is the second resurrection, than what's the resurrection at the great white throne, the third resurrection? This is not possible nor mentioned in the bible. The first resurrection(s) belongs to and are performed by Jesus who judges the righteous. The second resurrection belongs to and is performed by God who judges the sinners.

You can't claim to know when the rapture happens if you first don't understand the first and second resurrections.







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