Rapture will happen..does it matter when?

[Straightshot]

My coment

Those who worship the beast will take his mark because they will want to identify with him .... Satan's number will be the number of his beast Abaddon/Apollyon, a fallen angel

This marking is being displayed and worn by Islamic terrorists today [flag, head and arm bands]

The ex-terrorist Walid Shoebat defines this Arabic symbol .... you can find his rendering on the Internet

Any man who follows and worships the beast will voluntarily display his marking for all to see .... so the number will be the marking of the man

Revelation
13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Handmaid for Jesus]

It saddens me that we all argue about when it happens. However at the last day and when we all approach God the Father and account for our lives. Will He say "Well done good and faithful rapture student, teacher, and master." or rather "Well done good and faithful servant." I would rather He know that my heart was for him and that I sought the lost for His cause and never faltered in mt faith.

Go in peace, the Lord be with you all.

Don't let it bother you one bit. Paul said this.
2 Timothy 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 

[Psalm3704]

So you got the fact that I answered your question about Matthew 24:31?

You haven't posted anything about the rapture. You only posted verses you assume is the rapture like Matthew 24:31. The angels gather the elects from heaven. You can't rapture anyone already in heaven. In a rapture, people go up, they don't come down.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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The elects are being gathered from heaven after the tribulation because they were already raptured into heaven before the tribulation and told to wait until after the indignation. Isaiah 26:19-21.

Isaiah 26:19-21 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.​

Both Matthew 24:29-31 and Isaiah 26:19-21 pretty much refutes any possibility of a post-trib rapture, as well as Revelation 19.

Revelation 19 is the most elaborate and explicit documentation of Jesus' coming to earth in all the bible and yet nowhere did John mentioned Christ rapturing the church when He leaves heaven and descends upon Armageddon.

~From Revelation 19:1-6, the great multitude is seen in heaven.
~From Revelation 19:7-9, the marriage supper of the Lamb takes place in heaven.
~From Revelation 19:11-16, Christ descends from heaven and heads to Armageddon. No rapture mentioned anywhere during His coming.
~From Revelation 19:17-21, the a/c and his army defeated. Still no sign of the church being rapture.​

Revelation 19 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!” 6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!

7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.” 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.​

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Was John complacent? Did John forget to mentioned one of the most important event in prophecy involving the rapture of the church? No, he did not. John mentioned the great multitude in heaven from Revelation 19:1-10. There's no need for a post-tribulation rapture because the church is already in heaven.











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[Psalm3704]

Yes! Now you are catching on.

Well, I pretty much caught on that 1) you love giving commentaries of what you believe and 2) you shy away from posting scriptures to support your claims.

Your mistake above (which is the common pre-trib mistake) is that you say the tribulation (by that I think you mean the great tribulation?) begins at the breaking of seal 7. But that is not the case. At the breaking of the 7th seal, the Day of the LORD begins. The Day of the LORD is God's day of gathering (rapture) and then subsequent judgement of the unbelieving world. The Great Tribulation, on the other hand, is the time of satan's persecution of Israel and the church. Jesus says that this is the event mentioned by Daniel, and that event begins at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week (see Daniel). And as Paul says in 2nd Thes. 2, the Day of the LORD does not begin until after antichrist (son of perdition) has been revealed - which again happened at the mid-point. So then, the "rapture", which is what we appear to see happening in Rev. 7 when the great crowd appears in heaven, occurs after the Great Tribulation.

So the sealing of the 144,000 is not to protect them from the Great Tribulation at the hands of satan, but it is to protect them from God's Day of the LORD judgement which follows the Great Tribulation.

The biggest mistake that is commonly made is to assume that the Great Tribulation is the entirety of the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week. Think of Daniel's 70th week like this: 1st half is beginning birth pains; the first portion of the 2nd half is satan's period of intense persecution called the Great Tribulation; the 2nd portion of the 2nd half is a time called the Day of the LORD, when God rescues his saints from satan's persecution and brings His judgments upon the world. (We do not know when, during the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week, that the Day of the LORD occurs. But once antichrist appears and begins his time of great tribulation, we know that the LORD's return is very soon.)

A lot of errors in this post. At least one thing wrong with each paragraph.

Your mistake above (which is the common pre-trib mistake) is that you say the tribulation (by that I think you mean the great tribulation?) begins at the breaking of seal 7.

You assumed wrong. Don't guess my understanding of prophecy based on those you've spoken to in the past. How many people have you debated over the differences between Revelation 6:12 and Matthew 24:29?

The tribulation is not the same in length as the great tribulation. The tribulation is the new testament reference to Daniel's 70th week, while the great tribulation is the name in the new testament for the time of Jacob's Trouble.

The great tribulation doesn't begin at the 7th seal. You assume me thinking that is wrong. Get to know me first before commenting. Get to know what the bible said first before commenting. The great tribulation is approximately 3.5 years in length and starts at the middle of Daniel's 70th week.

At the breaking of the 7th seal, the Day of the LORD begins. The Day of the LORD is God's day of gathering (rapture) and then subsequent judgement of the unbelieving world.

Also not correct. The rapture already happened at the 6th seal and the church seen in heaven in Revelation 7:9-17. Below is the 7th seal.

Revelation 8:1-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw itto the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake. 6 So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.​

The Great Tribulation, on the other hand, is the time of satan's persecution of Israel and the church. Jesus says that this is the event mentioned by Daniel, and that event begins at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week (see Daniel). And as Paul says in 2nd Thes. 2, the Day of the LORD does not begin until after antichrist (son of perdition) has been revealed - which again happened at the mid-point. So then, the "rapture", which is what we appear to see happening in Rev. 7 when the great crowd appears in heaven, occurs after the Great Tribulation.

Utterly false and clear manipulation of the bible. Anyone can twist with the greatest of ease, try this instead.

The Great Tribulation, on the other hand, is the time of satan's persecution of Israel and the church. Jesus says that this is the event mentioned by Daniel, and that event begins at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week (see Daniel). And as Paul says in 2nd Thes. 2, the Day of the LORD does not begin until after antichrist (son of perdition) has been revealed - which again happened at the mid-point. So then, the "rapture", which is what we appear to see happening in Rev. 7 when the great crowd appears in heaven, occurs before Daniel's 70th week!​

Boy, that was easy. Didn't even need to reference the bible either!

So the sealing of the 144,000 is not to protect them from the Great Tribulation at the hands of satan, but it is to protect them from God's Day of the LORD judgement which follows the Great Tribulation.

Daniel's 70th week ends when the great tribulation ends.

Jesus is the one who comes to end the war and the tribulation. The day of the Lord's judgement doesn't come after the tribulation. Who ends the tribulation if Jesus descends upon Armageddon after the tribulation? If God let the tribulation play out without intervention, there be no flesh left when everyone nuked each other to death. Matthew 24:21-22

Do some studying and find out when Christ descends from heaven when He goes to fight the a/c. The post trib theory completely missed the mark.

The biggest mistake that is commonly made is to assume that the Great Tribulation is the entirety of the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week.

I don't know where you get your information. It's not the biggest mistake, it's a fact. The great tribulation aka Jacob's Trouble is the entire 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week.

Think of Daniel's 70th week like this: 1st half is beginning birth pains; the first portion of the 2nd half is satan's period of intense persecution called the Great Tribulation; the 2nd portion of the 2nd half is a time called the Day of the LORD, when God rescues his saints from satan's persecution and brings His judgments upon the world.

LOL! The birth pains are the signs just before Daniel's 70th week. It doesn't happen within the tribulation. Once you're in the tribulation, do you still need signs telling you you've entered the tribulation when all hell breaks loose on earth?

DingDing, the a/c is given authority for 42 months. That would make him ruler for the entire second half of the tribulation, not half of the second half of the tribulation.

WOW! I don't know where you get your information but it might be a good idea to refrain from teaching others about bible prophecy for now.











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[Psalm3704]

@DingDing

Contrary to what the Post-Trib rapture teaches, did you know Christ doesn't leave heaven and descend upon the earth after the tribulation?

Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
​

In Matthew 24:29-31, Christ has already been on earth at least 75 days. Did you know that? The bible mentions Christ on earth before the end of the tribulation. Did you know that?

One of the biggest flaw of the post-trib rapture claims that Christ descend upon earth after the tribulation. It's impossible if He comes after as there be no one left on earth to save. Matthew 24:21-22. He won't be able to rapture anyone alive since everyone is dead.

The tribulation doesn't end till sometimes after the antichrist is destroy.









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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Inkfingers]

Time-line of the Rapture (If anyone is remotely interested )



Rev 6:1-2 First Seal White horse – conquest (false Christs? – Matt 24:5)

Rev 6:3-4 Second Seal Red horse – War (Matt 24:6)

Rev 6:5-6 Third Seal Black horse – Famine (Matt 24:7)

Rev 6:7-8 Forth Seal Pale horse – Death (Pestilence – Matt 24:7)

Rev 6:9-11 Fifth Seal Martyrs (The tribulation of Matt 24:9-12)

Rev 6:12-14 Sixth Seal Earthquake, Red moon, Sackcloth sun, stars fall (Matt 24:29)

Rev 8:1/7 Seventh Seal ______ 1st Trumpet – hail and fire

Rev 8:8-9 __________________ 2nd Trumpet – Mountain of fire into sea

Rev 8:10-11 ________________ 3rd Trumpet – 1/3rd death in rivers, Wormwood star

Rev 8:12 ___________________ 4th Trumpet – 1/3rd sun and moon dark

Rev 9:1-11 _________________ 5th Trumpet – Apollyon from 'pit', not harm the sealed of God - 1st woe

Rev 9:12-21 / Rev 11:7 _______ 6th Trumpet – Army, Beast kills 2 witnesses, 1260 days-2nd woe

Rev 11:15 / 10:7 / 12/13/16 ___ 7th Trumpet ______ 1st Bowl – Sores, AofD, mark, Dragon, Rapture,3rdwoe

Rev 16:3 _____________________________________ 2nd Bowl –death of the sea

Rev 16:4 _____________________________________ 3rd Bowl –dead rivers

Rev 16:8 _____________________________________ 4th Bowl –suns heat

Rev 16:10 ____________________________________ 5th Bowl –Darkness and sores

Rev 16:12 ____________________________________ 6th Bowl –Euphrates dries, armies come

Rev 16:17 ____________________________________ 7th Bowl –Quake, Hail, Babylon, Armageddon

Rev 19 / 20 1000 years reign, Gog-Magog war, Satan final defeat

Rev 21+ White Throne Judgement, Tares cast into fire, Eternal Kingdom, New Jerusalem

 

[keras]

Just post the verse that actually says that God will take living people up to heaven.
Until I see it stated and I sure can't see it in the quotes you give, then I will continue to refute it as a false theory.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Inkfingers]

stars fall --after the great tribulation is over

Immediately after the tribulation...shall the sun be darkened...
the stars...

I'm not sure what your point is, as I say:


Rev 6:9-11 Fifth Seal Martyrs (The tribulation of Matt 24:9-12)

Rev 6:12-14 Sixth Seal Earthquake, Red moon, Sackcloth sun, stars fall (Matt 24:29)

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Inkfingers]

The 5th seal is the great tribulation...on that we agree.
This means the trumpets must have started as the two
witnesses are slain by the beast out of the bottomless pit, and
die during the 6th trumpet time.

What makes you think that the witnesses are slain during the tribulation of the 5th seal though? The 7th seal explictly states that it is the beginning of the 1st trumpet.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Inkfingers]

Rev. 7:1 John introduces us to ...four angels.

Rev. 8:2 John introduces us to already he told us
about angels. the seven angels

the seven angels which stood before God
John has just reminded us what he already saw them do.
Why did they stand before God earlier?
They stood and gave the numbers report as to how many
people of the tribes they had just sealed on the earth.

seven angels - are the sealed people set of "we" angels
from Rev. 7
This is why John refers to them as already seen - "the seven
angels" in Rev. 8:2.
They have already stood before God back in chapter 7 and the
great tribulation is over, but now John will see them again and
choose here to tell us their already done jobs when they acted
as to sounded the seven trumpets.
They are really only showing up now in chapter 8 because it is
time for the vials of God's wrath full to be poured.

I actually have no idea how that answers my question.