Rapture Before Wrath

[n2thelight]

We will escape because it is Not the Father's will that we be here when He pours out His wrath. Is this too difficult a concept?

LAMAD

He pours out His wrath at the 2nd coming, yet we shall be here for the tribulation....your problem is not separating the two...wrath and tribulation...As I've asked before, show me where we escape the tribulation......

 

[n2thelight]

Thanks for speaking the truth in love, Brother.

Great Post!

Millions of our Brothers and Sisters are totally unprepared to face the enemy, because of this false doctrine.

 

[MyLordMySavior]

Let me repeat: this is BOGUS. It is while Satan's wrath is AT ITS PEAK that God begins to pour out the vials of His wrath to SHORTEN those days. It is clear then that BOTH Satan's wrath and God's wrath are simultaneous; happening at the same time. How else can I say it, Satan is angry and is murdering saints, but God is MORE ANGRY and will STOP the murder by shortening the days of GT.

Will saints be here for this double wrath? OF COURSE, but it will not be the Bride of Christ who will be raptured BEFORE the week. It will be those left behind, and any new believers. And God has already told us twice, these saints WILL BE OVERCOME.

Readers, ALWAYS REMEMBER, it is not the will of God that ANY believer be overcome. His will is that all believers are READY and found worthy to be caught up in Paul's pretrib rapture.

LAMAD

This feels right in my heart.

 

[MyLordMySavior]

What's the point of Jesus gathering us after the tribulation... almost all of us are already going to be dead....

 

[BABerean2]

What's the point of Jesus gathering us after the tribulation... almost all of us are already going to be dead....

Stephen was stoned to death for speaking the truth. The Apostle Paul was beheaded. All of the other disciples except John were martyred. Thousands were fed to the lions in the Roman Coliseum.

Our Brothers and Sisters in the Middle East are being tortured, and beheaded on camera.

Why do some modern Christians think we may not face the same thing?

I will tell you why. Many of us have accepted the false pretrib doctrine.

Christ did not save your mortal flesh body. All of the dead in Christ will be resurrected to live with him forever.

Your question would seem very strange to the Apostles and members of the early Church. It has now become normal for those who believe the pretrib vision of a teenage girl from the year 1830.

The enemy has deceived millions.

No matter what you have been taught in the past. Do everything in your power to find the truth. Quit trying to defend the doctrine until you find it's true origin.

Do not believe me. Do not believe anyone else on this forum. Look at the historical documentation.

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Genesis of Dispensational Theology (on YouTube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4RS5pDntQ

.

 

[Jerico Miles]

Stephen was stoned to death for speaking the truth. The Apostle Paul was beheaded. All of the other disciples except John were martyred. Thousands were fed to the lions in the Roman Coliseum.

Our Brothers and Sisters in the Middle East are being tortured, and beheaded on camera.

Why do some modern Christians think we may not face the same thing?

I will tell you why. Many of us have accepted the false pretrib doctrine.

Christ did not save your mortal flesh body. All of the dead in Christ will be resurrected to live with him forever.

Your question would seem very strange to the Apostles and members of the early Church. It has now become normal for those who believe the pretrib vision of a teenage girl from the year 1830.

The enemy has deceived millions.

Well if you believe God's destiny for you is to die a horrible death, I think it's obvious who's really being deceive.

My God is good and loving and always delivered His people before passing judgement. What God are you serving?

 

[MyLordMySavior]

Stephen was stoned to death for speaking the truth. The Apostle Paul was beheaded. All of the other disciples except John were martyred. Thousands were fed to the lions in the Roman Coliseum.

Our Brothers and Sisters in the Middle East are being tortured, and beheaded on camera.

Why do some modern Christians think we may not face the same thing?

I will tell you why. Many of us have accepted the false pretrib doctrine.

Christ did not save your mortal flesh body. All of the dead in Christ will be resurrected to live with him forever.

Your question would seem very strange to the Apostles and members of the early Church. It has now become normal for those who believe the pretrib vision of a teenage girl from the year 1830.

The enemy has deceived millions.

No matter what you have been taught in the past. Do everything in your power to find the truth. Quit trying to defend the doctrine until you find it's true origin.

Do not believe me. Do not believe anyone else on this forum. Look at the historical documentation.

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Genesis of Dispensational Theology (on YouTube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4RS5pDntQ

.

I think I'm just going to read my Bible and see what it says. I don't like to read articles because they tend to sway my opinion. I want GOD to tell me, so I'll pray for the understanding and will try to figure it out through the Bible. That's where the true answer is anyways, lol.

 

[Bro in Christ]

Can you imagine the catastrophic earthquake required to move every mountain and island in Rev. chapter 6?

Then in Rev. chapter 16 an earthquake has destroyed the mountains and islands.

It does not take much of an imagination to see these are the result of the same event with a reference in both to the mountains and islands.

Rev. 16:10 does not say "everything" is dark. Instead it says the kingdom of the beast was full of darkness. We know there will be some believers who survive, who will not be a part of the beast's kingdom. Including the next verse makes it clear that this verse refers to those not in Christ. Therefore, "everything" is not dark.


Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

So you used your imagination in reading God's word thus changing it to your word...

 

[n2thelight]

Well if you believe God's destiny for you is to die a horrible death, I think it's obvious who's really being deceive.

My God is good and loving and always delivered His people before passing judgement. What God are you serving?

And Christians that are dying horrible deaths as I type this response,what may I ask do you say to them????????

Matthew 10:28"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

A Christian should not be afraid of death no matter how it come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jerico Miles]

And Christians that are dying horrible deaths as I type this response,what may I ask do you say to them????????

Matthew 10:28"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

A Christian should not be afraid of death no matter how it come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you're a Christian and think you're going to hell when you die, I would question your knowledge of what Christ did on the cross for you when you accept Him as your Lord and Savior.

 

[BABerean2]

So you used your imagination in reading God's word thus changing it to your word...

That is a strange response from a Brother who said "everything" was dark and was then shown that the text said something different.

He then turns around and claims I am changing God's Word.


Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

[n2thelight]

If you're a Christian and think you're going to hell when you die, I would question your knowledge of what Christ did on the cross for you when you accept Him as your Lord and Savior.

Where did hell come in?My point was Christians have and still are dying horrible deaths.......Where did I say as a Christian I was going to hell???

Not understanding your response,care to clarify?

Think you misunderstood my post,I fear God,not man,nor satan,so what ever the trib brings,be it death or whatever,Im not worried!!!!!

 

[BABerean2]

I think I'm just going to read my Bible and see what it says. I don't like to read articles because they tend to sway my opinion. I want GOD to tell me, so I'll pray for the understanding and will try to figure it out through the Bible. That's where the true answer is anyways, lol.

You are correct about the finding the truth in your Bible. While you are reading your Bible, see if you can solve the following problems promoted by those who originated your doctrine.

One of Dispensationalism's most glaring problems is the claim to take a "literal" interpretation of scripture and then do the exact opposite. Listed below are a few of the most obvious examples.


Adding a gap to Daniel chapter 9, not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

Stating that Matthew chapter 24 was written to the Jews when the text clearly states Christ was talking to his Apostles, who he knew would be the leaders of His Church.

Ignoring Paul's warning in 2nd Thess. chapter 2, verses 1-4.

Ignoring Paul's clear statements about the difference between Israel of the Flesh and Israel of the Promise in Romans 9, 10, and 11.

Changing the "so" of Romans 11:26 into an adverb of time instead of an adverb of manner.

Producing a pretrib rapture by claiming that 1st Thess. chapter 4 is not related to Matthew chapter 24.

Producing two separate kingdoms, the Church in heaven, and Israel on earth.

Claiming that God offered the kingdom to the Jews, but they rejected it. What would have happened if they had accepted the kingdom?

Claiming the last trumpet in scripture is not the last trumpet.

Turning the word dispensation into a time period instead of the act of administering. A pharmacy dispenses medicine. The Apostle Paul was dispensing the Gospel.

Also, please avoid all historical writings that show the true origin of the pretrib doctrine. It could make you uncomfortable if you see part of it started with the "vision" of a teenage girl in 1830.

 

[Jerico Miles]

Where did hell come in?My point was Christians have and still are dying horrible deaths.......Where did I say as a Christian I was going to hell???

Not understanding your response,care to clarify?

Think you misunderstood my post,I fear God,not man,nor satan,so what ever the trib brings,be it death or whatever,Im not worried!!!!!

I fully understood what you wrote. Look at the last word in that verse. Did you misunderstood the scripture you quoted?

Matthew 10:28"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[Danoh]

You are correct about the finding the truth in your Bible. While you are reading your Bible, see if you can solve the following problems promoted by those who originated your doctrine.

One of Dispensationalism's most glaring problems is the claim to take a "literal" interpretation of scripture and then do the exact opposite. Listed below are a few of the most obvious examples.


Adding a gap to Daniel chapter 9, not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

Stating that Matthew chapter 24 was written to the Jews when the text clearly states Christ was talking to his Apostles, who he knew would be the leaders of His Church.

Ignoring Paul's warning in 2nd Thess. chapter 2, verses 1-4.

Ignoring Paul's clear statements about the difference between Israel of the Flesh and Israel of the Promise in Romans 9, 10, and 11.

Changing the "so" of Romans 11:26 into an adverb of time instead of an adverb of manner.

Producing a pretrib rapture by claiming that 1st Thess. chapter 4 is not related to Matthew chapter 24.

Producing two separate kingdoms, the Church in heaven, and Israel on earth.

Claiming that God offered the kingdom to the Jews, but they rejected it. What would have happened if they had accepted the kingdom?

Claiming the last trumpet in scripture is not the last trumpet.

Turning the word dispensation into a time period instead of the act of administering. A pharmacy dispenses medicine. The Apostle Paul was dispensing the Gospel.

Also, please avoid all historical writings that show the true origin of the pretrib doctrine. It could make you uncomfortable if you see part of it started with the "vision" of a teenage girl in 1830.

Clearly, you do NOT understand Dispensationalism. Yours is YOUR reading YOUR understanding INTO what you read. Obviously you do the same when "studying" Scripture.

Further, you are so obviously intent on disproving what you have yet to prove you understand, that you have no problem citing words out of context, nor mixing various points of refinement within Dispensationalism soley towards proving your strawman valid.

There really is no point addressing your distorted "points."

I already know what you'll respond with. Just as I already know you really do not want to understand these issues.

 

[n2thelight]

I fully understood what you wrote. Look at the last word in that verse. Did you misunderstood the scripture you quoted?

Gotcha,Im the one that mis-understood....My apologies...........

 

[TPeterY]

The earthquake in my last post was not plural.

We went over this a few weeks ago where I told you if you see the same word in other scriptures, it doesn't necessarily mean the bible are speaking of the same thing as you will need to read everything thoroughly.

Here's the same example I've use as last time. If we assume every scripture in the bible refers to the same teaching because the same word is used, does this also mean the daughter of Diblaim is the one mention in Ezekiel 38 attacking Israel in the future?

Hosea 1:3 (NKJV)
So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.

Next time, I'm just gonna say GOMER PYLE.



.

 

[n2thelight]

We went over this a few weeks ago where I told you if you see the same word in other scriptures, it doesn't necessarily mean the bible are speaking of the same thing as you will need to read everything thoroughly.

Here's the same example I've use as last time. If we assume every scripture in the bible refers to the same teaching because the same word is used, does this also mean the daughter of Diblaim is the one mention in Ezekiel 38 attacking Israel in the future?

Hosea 1:3 (NKJV)
So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.

Next time, I'm just gonna say GOMER PYLE.



.

I could take your same analogy and say,just because a word is not there on a subject,dos'nt make it different.......

 

[TPeterY]

I could take your same analogy and say,just because a word is not there on a subject,dos'nt make it different.......

Poor logic and reasoning. That can assume anything is possible.

A dog has two eyes, two ears, a nose and mouth just like you. If I didn't call it a dog, would this make you a dog also?

How about this one? Same subject with different wordings. Why did God cover them in animal skin after they had already covered themselves?

Genesis 3:7 (NKJV)
Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Genesis 3:21 (NKJV)
Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

You still haven't answered this question from a month back.

.

 

[n2thelight]

Poor logic and reasoning. That can assume anything is possible.

A dog has two eyes, two ears, a nose and mouth just like you. If I didn't call it a dog, would this make you a dog also?

How about this one? Same subject with different wordings. Why did God cover them in animal skin after they had already covered themselves?

Genesis 3:7 (NKJV)
Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Genesis 3:21 (NKJV)
Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

You still haven't answered this question from a month back.

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It was the first blood(animal) sacrafice until the Cross.....