Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Revelation Chapter 6 is a preview or summary of thing that come later.
When Christ returns there is a great earthquake when he sets foot on the Mount of Olives. The rich and mighty hide themselves from the wrath of Christ at His Second Coming when He returns in flaming fire and pours out his wrath on the ungodly.
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
This is the beginning of 7 years of judgement . The first 1260 days or 3 1/2 years
MyLordMySavior said in post 412:
I hope for a pre-trib rapture more than the post-trib.
MyLordMySavior said in post 412:
Why would God allow this to happen to the people He loves! Where's the mercy?
MyLordMySavior said in post 412:
God saved Noah and His family from the Flood, why wouldn't He save us from the awful judgement the world deserves.
Can you back up your opinion with scripture?
Matthew 24:7 (NKJV)
For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
Earthquakes and places are plural.
.
Yes, a pre-wrath rapture is my take _ at the last trumpet (which #7 in the series). But that does not mean we won't have to endure the first six trumpets. These are the last trumpets sounding the alarm, testing those who have faith and giving the final warnings to the rest.
"Blow a trumpet in Zion,
And sound an alarm in my holy mountain:
Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:
For the day of the Lord IS COMING,
For it is at hand: A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
Like the morning clouds spread over the mountains.
A people come great and strong,
The like of whom has never been;
Nor will there ever be any such after them.
Even for many successive generations.
A fire devours before them,
And behind them a flame burns;
The land is like the Garden of Eden before them,
And behind them a desolate wilderness;
Surely nothing shall escape them ...
The earth quakes before them, the heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark, and the stars diminish their brightness."
Joel 2:1-3, 10
You just terrified me. I've read the Bible. I LOVE God. I try my best, even though I suck at it and fail at being a Christian, I still keep trying over and over again.
I've read the Revelations multiple times, and it's so incredibly confusing, I don't know what to believe. I know of things that will happen, I just don't understand the when and who parts. I hope that God will be merciful and take us away before He passes his Judgement on to the world, but so many Christians argue with each other over this, it scares me. My biggest fear is believing something not ttrue that is why I believe strictly what the Bible says...because it's truly the only words I can trust with my heart & soul.
Now, I hope for a pre-trib rapture more than the post-trib. Both uses scripture to support their claim, but obviously someone is misconstruing it, but I don't know who! It's so incredibly confusing, and I'm not Bible Scholar! I'll never know everything, but gosh do I try to keep learning.
And the fact that you say, that those who believe pre-trib will go to worship Satan!!!! WHAT!!!!!! No!!!! I don't believe this because if they will be deceived, who knows what will happen to me!!! Why would God allow this to happen to the people He loves! Where's the mercy? God saved Noah and His family from the Flood, why wouldn't He save us from the awful judgement the world deserves.
I'm not smart enough to understand revelations. I honestly don't think I can believe anyone unless God Himself told me in simple stupid terms. But with how sucky and awful the world is today, it makes me feel like the End is near. I'm running out of time to understand if it really is that easy to deceive the world :'(.
Can you back up your opinion with scripture?
Since Stephen was stoned to death, our Brothers and Sisters have been tortured and killed for their faith. It is happening now to our Brothers and Sisters in the Middle East. The persecution will intensify during the 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation. We know there are Christians here during the trib. If some want to call them "tribulation saints" that is OK, however they have the witness of Christ and are willing to die for their faith in Christ. I believe we would have to call them Christians if we are being honest with the text. When these believers are beheaded during the trib. is it the wrath of God or Satan? The answer is obvious in my humble opinion. God is not beheading these believers. It would be like saying, God beheaded John the Baptist.
If we look at the interpretation used at the time of the Revolutionary War, it was understood that we would be raptured/resurrected at Christ's Second Coming. After we are gathered to Christ, then the wrath of God will be poured out on the unbelievers.
Will members of the Church be here for Satan's wrath? Yes. Many will be killed for their faith.
Will members of the Church be here for God's wrath?. Yes, but not in our flesh bodies. God's wrath will be poured out on unbelievers during the last day of the trib, after we are raptured/resurrected.
Let me repeat, the 3 1/2 year trib is not God's wrath. According to Rev. 12:12 it is Satan's wrath.
goingBABarean2 wrote;
According to Rev. 12:12 the tribulation is Satan's wrath. God's wrath will be poured out on unbelievers after we are gathered at the 7th trumpet. Based on Romans 5:9 and 1st Thess. 5:9 Christ took our part of God's wrath, at the cross.
There is little or no truth in the above statement. "The tribulation" - or more correctly Daniel's 70th week, is a 7 year period of time in which God's wrath is felt throughout the ENTIRE week, but Satan's wrath is felt ONLY after he is defeated and kicked down to earth, at the midpoint of the week. So during the last half of the week, God is angry and Satan is angry, and BOTH are pouring out their wrath AT THE SAME TIME.
Next, THERE IS NO GATHERING at the 7th trumpet. That is MYTH. Paul's gathering will be just before the 6th seal, and the gathering Jesus spoke of will be in Rev. 19 as Jesus returns to earth to fight Armageddon. Indeed, Paul wrote that God will not make an appointment for His kids to suffer His wrath. In saying that, Paul is showing us that we get RAPTURED just before God's wrath begins, at the earthquake of the 6th seal, and before the 7th seal that opens the 70th week. Paul's rapture is CLEARLY pretrib. That is because GOD IS PRETRIB.
LAMAD
That I do
Luke 21:35 "For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth."
The "snare" is a trap.
Romans 11:9 "And David saith, "Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway."
If you were expecting a trap right in front of you, you would make sure you would not step into it, but if you did not know that snare and trap was there, you would walk right into it with eyes wide open. This coming of Satan and the deceptions that come over the earth will be very unexpected. When you hears rumors, and things happening that are drawing you to Satan, that he is here, why would you put yourself into that temptation. Those that don't know the truth of these end times will actually think that Satan is Jesus and will run to him. They will be proud to say that they are Satan's harlot, though they will not word it that way. And the things that they do and say for Satan, they will be thinking all the time that they are doing it for Christ. Through their own traditions, they will set their own traps and fall right into the pit they prepared. They just did not study enough to know the difference between Jesus and Satan, yet they call themselves Christians. The trials and temptations are coming, and Jesus told you in the eighth verse; "Take heed that no man deceive you by any means." They will be coming and telling you that Christ sent them. In their minds Satan is Christ. The Holy Spirit will open your eyes as to which are from God, and those that are from Satan.
Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
We are to ask for wisdom to our Heavenly Father's Word, and His guidance daily so we don't fall into those traps and snares of these end times. So lets go into the Greek text to get a better view of what this verse is saying. Why do you stand before the Son of man? You stand there for judgment. Pray that you will have the wisdom to stand against Satan, so by your words and actions you will stand there undefiled and condemned by our Lord. Pray that you will be the one to hear Him say, Well done My good and faithful servant, enter into the gates of heaven. Many will stand before Christ in shame, and Jesus will say to them, "Get away from me, I know you not."
The subject for this entire hour of temptation is being deceived. Do you consider it a blessing when you are not deceived, or does it make any difference to you? the purpose of this chapter is to keep you from being deceived by those that come in Christ's name peddling their false doctrines and traditions that go against God's Word. So if Satan says that he is Christ, and your pastor and denomination tell you that the man in Jerusalem is Christ, and Satan does and says the things you expect Christ to do, will you follow your pastor and bow to that fake? That is the test and trial for this time. Can you be tempted when your family, your church, your friends tell you Satan is Christ, and to top it all off, when you see supernatural acts happening right before your eyes? Jesus is telling you to expect it.
II Thessalonians 2:1, 2 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
Paul is telling you to not be taken in by any means, and they will use every trick in the book to get you to join them.
II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,"
Did you get that? Before Jesus comes, there will be a massive falling away , and Satan, who is the man of sin, also called the son of perdition, will actually sit in the his temple in Jerusalem, and the entire world will believe it.
II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
It is Satan who opposeth and exalteth himself above our Heavenly Father. Satan will demand that you worship him, and he will sit in his temple in Jerusalem and do and say the things to try and make you believe it. He will try to appear as you think Jesus ought to appear. I hope that in that day when Satan arrives, instead of being tempted in worshipping him, that you would find him the abomination that he is. That is why you will have your gospel armor on and in place to make a stand and be ready for those spiritual battles.
Some people are so biblically illiterate that they will try to tell you that this 36th verse is all about the rapture theory. But it doesn't say that, but the Greek is very specific, "That you stand before Christ at the judgment." You stand before Christ, after these things have come to pass. Then you will be judged by what you did while Satan was in the temple pretending to be God. Did you go to Satan and bow to him, or did you stand your ground? Be prepared to speak up when their lies and deceit are spoken to you. So now stop and think for a moment, why do you put your gospel armor on in the first place? You put on the gospel armor for the sole purpose of making a stand and defending yourself from those fiery darts of Satan's lies. Take the time an study Ephesians 6:10-20. Jesus is telling you to ask Father, pray for the wisdom so that you can be accountable on that day of Jesus' return.
luke
Christians over in the Middle east,have they escaped?How about China?
Why do you think you will ?Heck even the apostles were persecuted,yet you think you're special,WoW!!!!!
The earthquake in my last post was not plural.
This prewrath theory is pretty much myth. Yes, indeed God is prewrath and the rapture will be prewrath,
Sounds like you are contradicting yourself.
I am not an adherent to the 70 weeks of Daniel Gap theory. I believe it was a specific time frame leading up to the first coming of Jesus - that's all.
The sixth seal was opened long ago as were all the other seals when Jesus was given the scroll. It is a scroll of written orders that will take place in the future - not when they were opened. We would not know what was in them otherwise. It is simply a book, orders that represent what will happen. The scroll is like a play written. That's why, when every seal is opened, the angel says. "come and see", bringing John to another place, a vision in the future. It is not chronological. If it were, then all the events in the seals would take place prior to any events in the seven trumpets or bowls. The pale horse alone in the fourth seal kills 1/4 of the population on earth -- that hasn't happened yet and we are taken out at the last trumpet - which is #7 btw.
I have to acknowledge the various views other than mine and respect them. Their are some brilliant scholars out there who disagree as to the order of events.
I think the reason is because they look at the "Seals' events in a chronological way coming before the events in the seven trumpets and the seven bowls. I look at it three dimensionally like a sphere. The sphere is the scroll, but events don't take place until the trumpets sound. The trumpets and bowls fall within the scroll, so that when you turn the sphere around and look through it, you see different vantage points, events overlapping and accumulating. It doesn't make sense if you read it in a linear fashion.
The trumpets sound the alarm. They are the last warnings to the world. We endure six of them and at the sound of the last trumpet, we are taken. Then the bowls of wrath are leased.
***That said, the worldwide earthquake that happens in Rev. 16:18, when the 7th bowl is released IS THE SAME EARTHQUAKE DESCRIBED IN REV.6:12, when the sixth seal is opened!
This is only one of many places that demonstrate the events of the trumpets and bowls written in the seals.
So, according to my view, we won't experience any of the bowl events (God's wrath) including this solar flare event where the sun scorches the earth. We'll be gone.
The festival of trumpets beginning on Rosh Hashanah this year or next year may ignite the GT. I'm leaning towards one of the two solar eclipse/blood moons in 2015: March 20/ April 3 or Sept 12/ Sept. 28.
If nothing happens by 2016, I think I'll burn my book, trade in my "gloom and doom badge", and try to live a peaceful retirement with an optimistic hope for the future generations and stop being absorbed with all the bad world news.
God Bless,
Ronald D. Bruno
*author of "Hell ... If I Know", a concise study of Christianity, with special attention given to the nature of Hell and the Great Tribulation Period.
Rev 6:12-14 sky is red , every mountain and island move
Rev 16:18-20 no more islands and no more mountains
Yet in rev 16:10 everything is complete darkness
Look at differences
Of course we understand, for someone trying to make a FALSE THEORY fit, they can just SAY these are the same earthquake. For those of us who can read, WE KNOW BETTER.
LAMAD
LAMAD
it's not a question of what you can read but rather what you as all pretribbers do.......read into verses what's not there to begin with..........for example 1Thess 4........one of your favorite "pretrib proof texts"......anyone can read the whole chapter and what's evident is the fact that Paul doesn't even mention tribulation, either before or after and yet you and the pretrib camp INJECT your false pretrib theory into the chapter / verses........when this is brought to the attention of pretribbers you simply ignore the fact and continue to MISREAD,inject and assume this false doctrine into these verses as you do with EVERY verse you make use of as "proof text".........you can't even prove your doctrine with ONE SINGLE VERSE in all of scripture that explicitly states that Christ returns before tribulation, what's sad is the fact that you/pretribbers will continue to support this lie using the same old methods while ignoring any valid points made as to the great many flaws of this false doctrine.......you may think you "know better" but scripture proves you wrong at every turn
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?