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.........already contradicting yourself, before you responded to my post and said we're already immortal, now here you say we're changed from mortal to immortal......certainly wouldn't need to be changed to something I already am..................
Yet Christ says He returns after the tribulation....Christians have always gone and continue to go through tribulation to this very day
Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Mark 13:37 "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."
God's wrath and the tribulation are two totally different things
Now,what part of tribulation don't you all understand,and where exactly does it say we escape?
- Romans 5:3 (KJV)
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;- Romans 12:12 (KJV)
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;- Ephesians 3:13 (KJV)
Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.- Judges 10:14 (KJV)
Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.- Mark 13:24 (KJV)
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,- 1 Thessalonians 3:4 (KJV)
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.- 2 Thessalonians 1:4 (KJV)
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:- 2 Thessalonians 1:6 (KJV)
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;- Matthew 13:21 (KJV)
Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.- Matthew 24:21 (KJV)
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.- John 16:33 (KJV)
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.- Acts 14:22 (KJV)
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.- Romans 2:9 (KJV)
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;- Romans 8:35 (KJV)
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?- 2 Corinthians 1:4 (KJV)
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.- 2 Corinthians 7:4 (KJV)
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.- Revelation 2:9 (KJV)
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.- Revelation 2:22 (KJV)
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.- Deuteronomy 4:30 (KJV)
When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;- 1 Samuel 10:19 (KJV)
And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the Lord by your tribes, and by your thousands.- 1 Samuel 26:24 (KJV)
And, behold, as thy life was much set by this day in mine eyes, so let my life be much set by in the eyes of the Lord, and let him deliver me out of all tribulation.- Matthew 24:29 (KJV)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:- Revelation 1:9 (KJV)
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.- Revelation 7:14 (KJV)
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.- Revelation 2:10 (KJV)
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
It is strange how people are focused and determined to fight against the Lord's promise [Revelation 3:10] .... even to the extent that these even call the Lord a liar
I always think about Genesis 3 when I hear the accusation if you know what I mean
Sounds like they might be on the other side over the biggest issue debated .... why would anyone even think to do this thing?
There is something very suspect going on with those who seek the Lord's unprecedented tribulation .... some force has a grip on them
The Lord's coming hour of trial and judgment is designed to punish a world of unbelief and not to "purify" a few believers as they say they are
The argument is all one sided
They will tell you that true believers who look for the Lord's call for them before the tribulation are ignorant and will give up their salvation if the tribulation starts and there is no call .... this is absurd ... no true believer will ever give up on the Lord no matter what
Those professing only would be more likely to abandon their pretended faith
Hopefully the ones who deny the Lord's promise will take His advice and repent after they find them selves in the tribulation [Revelation 3:15-19]
However, the setting of the period will not be conducive for it .... the confusion, vexation, up upheaval, and deceptions will abound .... and Revelation's account does not reflect much evidence for it .... billions will be killed and lost forever
Will some turn in the tribulation? .... yes .... and particularly some of Israel and revelation tells
Of course most against the Lord's "harpazo" action are of replacement theology so they think they are Israel ... these two ideas go hand in hand and are both false
They say the Lord will protect them in the tribulation, however Revelation's account tells the opposite .... protection is not loosing one's head
144000 of the children of Israel will be protected for their mission, but there is no other account of protection during during the period
And they tell that the tribulation is not the Lord's doing at all, yet the scriptural account plainly tells where the judgments are coming from
Even to the extent that the tribulation is caused by Satan, but who will only be the Lord's dupe in the process and cast to the earth to experience his own defeat
So the story of no "rapture" and to seek the tribulation for you purification is very suspect of something going on behind the curtain [by the way a true believer needs no judgment for further "purification" .... this idea is not the gospel of Jesus Christ]
You are confusing your spirit (the real YOU) and soul (both immortal) with your flesh and blood body, which is definitely NOT immortal. It is your body that must be changed. Flesh and blood (body) cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
LAMAD
Daniel1136 said in post 404:
Luke
21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man
Rapture before the wrath - NOPE.
Will Christians have to live and die during the Tribulation - YUP.
Are the Christians of the Western world any more special than Christians in every other part of the world who are dying today or have died by the millions in the past - NOPE.
Is the Rapture, at least until after the return of Jesus Christ, going to happen - NOPE.
In conclusion , the believers that are' in Christ' will not have to endure the wrath of the tribulation, but will be caught up to meet The Lord in the air and forever will be with The Lord . Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thes. 4:17-18.
Source about:
THE ANTICHRIST.
How satan, as antichrist claiming to be the True Christ, is enabled to deceive and cause the various "belief systems" of the world into unknowingly worshiping him as the True Messiah
Atheists and agnostics will believe him to be the true Christ when the antichrist shows up in person performing miracles and stating that he is the Savior, also offering forgiveness if they believe upon and worship him.
Moslems will follow, when the antichrist states that he is the one they call "The One" who has come to lead them to the promised land.
Satan worshipers and the occultists will convert, when antichrist comes stating that he offers salvation to them if they repent and worship him as the True Messiah.
Pagans as well as those who worship many different gods (sun gods, earth gods, wind gods, water gods, warrior gods...), will forsake their deities and worship antichrist as their messiah, when he comes showing wonders and making lightning come down from heaven on command; satan will have this power, allowed to him by God (Rev 13:13+14).
Religious Jews who are still waiting for the First Advent of the Messiah, will flock to antichrist, as he shows himself off to be the True Messiah written of in the Torah. The first time the True Messiah came to them, they not only rejected Him, they murdered Him, and now when the fake comes they will accept and worship him - sad, is it not?
All Christian denominations and the Christian Rapturists will believe the first supernatural being that comes to the earth claiming to be Jesus Christ. And for the Rapturist who had been deceived with the false PRE-TRIB Rapture doctrine, he will be led away with the promise of a Rapture. They will ALL unknowingly worship satan as an instead-of Christ, the antichrist.
Not because they are evil, but because they were not warned by the false teachers/preachers whom are nothing more than the wolves in sheep's clothing.
These are perhaps the saddest of all the deceived; for they had a fair chance, they had the truth set before them by God in their own Bibles. They just preferred the "feel good" doctrines of men over the Word of our Lord. They have degenerated into a pitiful state of being a hypocrite and a 'finger pointer.' Jesus foresaw this and He spoke of it: "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel." (Matt 23:24).
They worry more about whether brother so-and-so was at the tavern having a drink, or if he's a divorcee or not, rather than the fact that they are spiraling into worshiping satan as the imposter to the Lord they love; sad, is it not?
If you are still following us here, then I say to you, "Pretty scary, huh?" And if we have left anyone out above, don't worry, satan will be sure to give them every opportunity to participate in the great apostasy. This is not some new revelation, or some off-the-wall new prophecy, this has been written in your Bibles all along - but the false teachers/preachers have hid it from you. What are you going to do? Lay down and die - eternally, or study your Heavenly Father's Written Word whereby you can overcome! The choice is yours, and you do have to make a choice or satan will make it for you.
Satan was not always evil though, he was once good, believe it or not, he was a "Cherubim that covereth" (Ezek 28:14), which is a protecting Angel that guarded the Mercy Seat; a seat that Christ Himself sits upon. Satan was at the first a good angel: "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." (Ezek 28:15). But his first transgression was vanity, he didn't want to guard the Mercy Seat, he wanted to sit on it, as Christ, as God, and still seeks that today. And for a five month period in the end times, he will accomplish just that as the antichrist:2nd Thess 2:1-4Satan is "that man of sin" and"the son of perdition". Some will try to tell you that Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Christ, is the son of perdition. This is untrue and to document: In verse 4 above we see: "the son of perdition" who: "opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." Judas Iscariot never did that, Judas never said that he was God. In fact after he realized that they were really going to crucify Jesus, and that Jesus was going to let it happen; Judas threw the money that he was paid to betray Jesus down onto the temple floor.
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV)
We aren't anymore special, but... the reason God would spare us is because no Christian in the world has ever faced the wrath and judgement that we would have to face if the Rapture didn't happen. It will be so horrible, so awful, beyond what the world has ever gone through(including The Flood). That is why God will spare us. Not because we are special, but because He is merciful.
According to Rev. 12:12 the tribulation is Satan's wrath. God's wrath will be poured out on unbelievers after we are gathered at the 7th trumpet. Based on Romans 5:9 and 1st Thess. 5:9 Christ took our part of God's wrath, at the cross.
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Soo.. does that mean you believe we will be here for satan's wrath just not Gods?
Don't act as if you don't know: you know very well what Luke 21:36 says.
LAMAD
Yet how do you deal with rev 6:16 the wrath of the lambAccording to Rev. 12:12 the tribulation is Satan's wrath. God's wrath will be poured out on unbelievers after we are gathered at the 7th trumpet. Based on Romans 5:9 and 1st Thess. 5:9 Christ took our part of God's wrath, at the cross.
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Yet how do you deal with rev 6:16 the wrath of the lamb
Revelation 6:16 "And said to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"
This is the 2nd coming
Yet how do you deal with rev 6:16 the wrath of the lamb
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