Rapture Before Wrath

[n2thelight]

Shame on you n2.

You forgot to post a link to your website you always quote from. 2thess2

And that's no way to treat a lady in here. Plus you still haven't answer my question about Eve.

So what did God cover her with and why after she ate the fruit?



.

Thanks for the link add

Treated her with the Word

They covered themselves with fig leaves,that's why the parable goes all the way back to the Garden....He covered them with animal skins...

Anything else???

 

[bibletruth469]

Why do you all make the wrath and the trib the same?All throughout scripture,we go through tribulations,that's a given Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." The end is not the trib,the end is His return(wrath)..........Until you all learn the difference you won't get it right One could be standing in the middle of a million people,that will deserve His wrath,and not a hair on your head will be harmed....

The period covering the last 2000+ years and the many persecutions and tribulations experienced by believers now and in the past is nothing in comparison to the tribulation period ( Daniel's 70 week, Jacobs trouble ) which is a very different type of tribulation . The last 3 1/2 years will be the time of great tribulation , Look at Matt 24:21,"For then shall be great tribulation , such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be".

I really think that people can get confused in the terminology between tribulation and great tribulation . Yes, the great tribulation is at midpoint, however one still has to include the beginning 3 1/2 years also. That time frame is still part of the 70 th week , or the 7 years .

 

[TPeterY]

Thanks for the link add

Treated her with the Word

They covered themselves with fig leaves,that's why the parable goes all the way back to the Garden....He covered them with animal skins...

Anything else???

Yeah you forgot the why part. I said what and why in my question.

Why did God cover Adam and Eve in animal skin?

 

[Danoh]

In Luke 13:6, the Lord relates a parable concerning a fig tree planted by a man in his vineyard, who, for three years came to seek fruit on this fig tree and found none, v. 7.

According to a very similar parable in Isaiah 5, Israel is His vineyard, v. 7.

Meaning the Fig Tree is NOT Israel.

In Gen 3:7, Adam and Eve, the eyes of their understanding opened as to the difference between good and evil, find themselves ashamed of their nakedness, and sew some fig leaves together as a covering.

One might call that Fig Tree religion - they know they are naked, exposed before God as to their having disobeyed Him, v. 10.

In this, Hebrews 4: 12, 13 assert that the Word of God is alive, and we are thus naked before it as to the thoughts and the intents of our heart.

James 1:21- 27 asserts that Israel's Law was able to liberate them towards their being good, religious Jews, should they, seeing themselves in it, walk in obedience to it.

Luke 1:6 was an example of this righteousness the Law could impute on such a Jew, through the forebearance of God, Rom. 3: 25. See also Rom. 2: 17, 18, 25.

Throughout Mtt. - John, the Lord points Israel to "what did Moses command... what sayeth the Law... what did Moses say?"

In John 8:31, 32, He asserts that if they continue in His Word, they shall know the truth, and the truth shall set them free.

There objection proves them not His disciples

He had told them in John 5:46, 47, that had they believed Moses, they would have believed Him, for Moses had written of Him; they would have believed His Word.

In other words, the Fig Tree represents Israel's God-given Religion under Moses.

For three years, He had come seeking good fruit of this religion and had basically found none, compare Isaiah 5 and Luke 13.

Of course, only the Father knows the timing of the Son's return, Mtt. 24:36, Acts 1:7.

Thus, at best the Mtt. 24:32 parable of the fig tree's being yet tender and putting forth only leaves at a point before it its figs, relates to the restablishment of Israel's Religious system,, though obviously, given Mtt. 24's context; in apostacy.

This makes sense to me because all the Lord said and did,, as evidenced by both His actions and His Words here and there througout His ministry, had been within their prophet: Daniel's Timeline - which did NOT foresee God's TEMPORARY interruption of of its last week with Paul's Mystery, Rom. 11:25..

 

[Riberra]

No, I get it, and I get what you're doing too. You're causing division and your website does not promote a post-trib doctrine, it's against it and all other forms of beliefs.

Below is what your website commented on Post-Trib. http://www.biblestudysite.com/rapture.htm

Post-Tribulation Rapturism:
Post-trib was by far the most popular opinion (among Rapturists) during the time of the Reformation (16th century), but cannot be traced to a specific starting point. There are a lot of variations on this view but in its classic sense post-tribbers believe:

The church must endure the entire 7-year period, to be Raptured at the end of the Tribulation. God will protect his children through His wrath.

This is also in error, but they are the closest to the truth out of all Rapture theories. But they fall off right at the end. They rightly say that the 'Church' will be here for the setting up of satan's kingdom (Great tribulation) and that they will be here for the time of the false messiah antichrist. Then they make a nonsensical statement, they say that they will be Raptured up into the clouds at the end of the Tribulation and then turn right around and come back with Jesus at His Second Advent - this makes no sense at all!

This version errs in that they feel that only a portion of the people on the planet (the 'Church') will be removed before the wrath of God, which in fact commences the "Day of the Lord." But there is no selective removal before God's wrath is executed on the ungodly. The 'Church' witnesses the destruction of the ungodly but is itself protected from it. Observe this Scripture showing that some are destroyed while others yet REMAIN and witness that destruction of the ungodly: "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." {Rev 11:13}.

You forgot to include the next chapter who come after your quoted part. Lets see the explanation you left behind in yous haste of discrediting that website.

see link
The Rapture according to 'Them'

The website is not saying that there is no Post Trib Rapture but that the fundamental error is saying that only a selective Group of People will be caught up



The fundamental error in all the above 'Rapture' scenarios is that they all, in one fashion or another, believe that at some point in time only a portion of the people will be removed.

First of all, they misunderstand the Bible when it says that "all will be changed" to read "will be Raptured' The change is a change of body, it is us going from our flesh body into our spiritual body. and this happens to ALL people on the earth at Christ's coming AT THE SAME TIME! It is the consummation of the age, which is the beginning of the Millennium. Read the below Scripture carefully and put out of your mind all that false 'Rapture' stuff. The below Scripture speaks of us going from our flesh body into our spiritual body. Those who are asleep (dead) have already changed into their spiritual body at the moment of their individual deaths. Their flesh corpse is the only thing in the grave. But those who shall still be living when Christ returns must also go into their spiritual bodies, but the are changed without actually dying a flesh death, they just discard these flesh 'Tabernacles' and the spiritual man emerges. For the in the Millennium we are no longer in our flesh bodies, but rather, we are in our spiritual bodies.

1 Cor 15:51-55
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (KJV)
​

And I never said anything about satan having power to rapture. You're just not getting what you're reading.

I wanted to make it clear to all including -you- about my starting of the thread called - The Pre-Tribulation rapture theory is a Satanic deception-that it does not mean that Satan as the power to make a Rapture ...but that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture THEORY is a DECEPTION because it will not happen... Different members participating have pointed out the dubious origin of the false Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory doctrine mounted as a religion on its own.

No. That's not the right source of information to verify biblical prophecy. The right source to advise others is to read the bible, not your website you keep promoting.

And if you can't understand the bible, use other translations till it sinks in, not XYZ.com.

When I say that people can verify by themselves I mean that they can use their Bible to verify what that Website present against the false Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine and other raptures versions saying that only a selective Group of People will be caught up-

So to all ,go for it ,verify with your Bible and
It will be observed by the reader that the false Rapture doctrines so closely mimic the true plan of God for these end times that it is difficult for those not fully versed in the Scriptures to determine were the truth stops and the crafty lie starts, if the only Bible teaching that someone has received came from a Rapture teacher, does it not stand to reason that their every knowledge of Scripture will turn upon a 'Rapture of the Church' type interpretation?

Link demonstrating the twisting interpretation of verses taken out of context from God's Word perpetrated by the Rapture "doctors":
Here:
The Rapture Theory; What Does God's Word Say About It?
Excerpts:
The Rapture 'doctors' (those who create, fabricate, and perpetuate the many different Rapture theories) have searched the Bible over and have found a finite number of Scriptures that they were able to pull violently out of context, twist and mould, reshape and join unnaturally one to the other until they have formed a new product, a new doctrine, seemingly supported by Biblical Scripture,

 

[bibletruth469]

I wanted to make a point: scripture is so clear about a literal translation happening. It mentions the dead and alive in a Christ will ALL be caught up' raptured'. I do not believe in a partial rapture of certain believers who are found worthy. This is not what happens . For example' the dead in Christ ( who died believing in Him) had no time to become worthy. They are ALL taken up. We believers are all worthy' over-comers ' because of our belief and trusting in our savior for salvation, therefore will be taken at the rapture . It is not what we have done; there is no partial rapture .

Also, believers at that time will all receive glorified bodies fit for the kingdom. We are do not become a ' spiritual' body at that time . Study all of 1 cor 15.

 

[Daniel1136]

And study Romans 8

And there is no partial "rapture" .... this is an inserted ruse made by those who have proprietary ambition

But there will be many of the professing "church" at the time not included [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]

These will have to turn to the Lord and repent during the tribulation and most likely killed and have to wait for their resurrection at the end of it [Revelation 6:9-11; 13:7; 14:13; 15:2-3; 20:4] [those beheaded]

 

[BABerean2]

And study Romans 8

And there is no partial "rapture" .... this is an inserted ruse made by those who have proprietary ambition

But there will be many of the professing "church" at the time not included [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]

These will have to turn to the Lord and repent during the tribulation and most likely killed and have to wait for their resurrection at the end of it [Revelation 6:9-11; 13:7; 14:13; 15:2-3; 20:4] [those beheaded]

If taken in context Matthew chapter 25 makes it clear that there will not be a second chance. This is one of the biggest lies of the pretrib doctrine. Many are being told there will be a second chance during the tribulation. The parables of Matthew chapter 25 say the exact opposite. We are to be ready when he returns.

Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


There will not be a second chance.


.

 

[Daniel1136]

There is no "second chance" .... only a first chance for all

And there will be those of the professing church who will enter the coming tribulation who are not true believers

The Lord has said it [Revelation 3:15-19]

I don't believe your point is a valid one

 

[BABerean2]

There is no "second chance" .... only a first chance for all

And there will be those of the professing church who will enter the coming tribulation who are not true believers

The Lord has said it [Revelation 3:15-19]

I don't believe your point is a valid one

All across America millions of evangelical Christians actually believe the scenario they have seen in the fictional "Left Behind" movies. The shelves of many church libraries contain those movies and the books written by Tim LaHaye.

In the movies many people become Christians after they are "left behind" by the pretrib rapture. When their loved ones and millions of others around the world suddenly vanish, they come to realize the Bible is true. This is what I mean by a second chance.

You used Matthew chapter 25 as part of that scenario in your post. However, Matthew chapter 25 states exactly the opposite of this scenario. In the parable of the foolish virgins they are not accepted because they were not ready when the Bridegroom came for them. They were not given a second chance. The other parables in the chapter make it clear that we must be ready when the Bridegroom appears.

Your assertion that some will be given a second chance during the trib, based on Matthew chapter 25, does not agree with the text of God's Word.

The validity of our discussion will have to be judged by those willing to read God's Word, instead of accepting the opinion of either of us.


.

 

[Daniel1136]

Your resource is Revelation 3:15-19 that must be included in the study

There are those who think they are ready [saved] and are not for what ever reasons .... the professing church is full of them today

Because they think they are, and are not .... they will go into the tribulation if they are living at the time

The Lord specifically tells them that they then will have to repent .... because they obviously never did this in the first place, if they do He will accept them

These were not saved in the first place .... and neither are those with out oil [the holy spirit] saved just the same

He will not withdraw His offer of salvation during the tribulation period for those who will turn to Him during the period .... the evidence is in Revelation's unfolding

There will be no believers on the earth at the inception of the tribulation, but there will be those who will turn and will be saved the same

The problem .... the period will be very confusing and deceptive .... and very difficult for the earth dwellers at the time to deal with .... unfortunately billions will be killed without turning and lost forever

As far as the left behind story .... this lacks much, and scriptural truths should never be subjected to a shallow and misleading book or movie ... not a good way to present truth .... two many holes

 

[shturt678s]

If taken in context Matthew chapter 25 makes it clear that there will not be a second chance. This is one of the biggest lies of the pretrib doctrine. Many are being told there will be a second chance during the tribulation. The parables of Matthew chapter 25 say the exact opposite. We are to be ready when he returns.

Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


There will not be a second chance.


.

No 2nd chance even before the future "1" Parousia, ie, at each one's passing, one's forever abode is already determined.

Old Jack's opinion

 

[shturt678s]

All across America millions of evangelical Christians actually believe the scenario they have seen in the fictional "Left Behind" movies. The shelves of many church libraries contain those movies and the books written by Tim LaHaye.

In the movies many people become Christians after they are "left behind" by the pretrib rapture. When their loved ones and millions of others around the world suddenly vanish, they come to realize the Bible is true. This is what I mean by a second chance.

You used Matthew chapter 25 as part of that scenario in your post. However, Matthew chapter 25 states exactly the opposite of this scenario. In the parable of the foolish virgins they are not accepted because they were not ready when the Bridegroom came for them. They were not given a second chance. The other parables in the chapter make it clear that we must be ready when the Bridegroom appears.

Your assertion that some will be given a second chance during the trib, based on Matthew chapter 25, does not agree with the text of God's Word.

The validity of our discussion will have to be judged by those willing to read God's Word, instead of accepting the opinion of either of us.


.

About as lucid as it gets, and valid!

Old Amill. Jack

 

[Riberra]

Your resource is Revelation 3:15-19 that must be included in the study

There are those who think they are ready [saved] and are not for what ever reasons .... the professing church is full of them today

Your definition of -saved- is far from the Scripture.
Being saved does not mean being ready for the pre-tribulation rapture... who by the way will never happen.

Because they think they are, and are not .... they will go into the tribulation if they are living at the time

All Christians will have to go through the Great Tribulation if they are living at the time....those who will keep their Faith in Jesus Christ ie (not submitting to the Antichrist and the False Prophet by taking the mark of the Beast or his number) until the return of Jesus will be -spiritually- saved.

The caught up/gathering (rapture) into the clouds to meet Jesus in the air will happen when Jesus return near the END of the Great Tribulation.....NOT PRE-TRIBULATION

 

[TPeterY]

You forgot to include the next chapter who come after your quoted part. Lets see the explanation you left behind in yous haste of discrediting that website.

see link
The Rapture according to 'Them'

The website is not saying that there is no Post Trib Rapture but that the fundamental error is saying that only a selective Group of People will be caught up



The fundamental error in all the above 'Rapture' scenarios is that they all, in one fashion or another, believe that at some point in time only a portion of the people will be removed.

First of all, they misunderstand the Bible when it says that "all will be changed" to read "will be Raptured' The change is a change of body, it is us going from our flesh body into our spiritual body. and this happens to ALL people on the earth at Christ's coming AT THE SAME TIME! It is the consummation of the age, which is the beginning of the Millennium.

No, I didn't forget the next paragraph or anything else. If you understand what you read, you can see the author changed the subject back to the rapture as a whole and no longer writing about the Post-Trib rapture.

You can see this because now he's talking about "all the above rapture" and not anyone particular one rapture.

No wonder Lamad pokes fun at you for wearing thick glasses. LOL!!!

Read the below Scripture carefully and put out of your mind all that false 'Rapture' stuff. The below Scripture speaks of us going from our flesh body into our spiritual body. Those who are asleep (dead) have already changed into their spiritual body at the moment of their individual deaths. Their flesh corpse is the only thing in the grave. But those who shall still be living when Christ returns must also go into their spiritual bodies, but the are changed without actually dying a flesh death, they just discard these flesh 'Tabernacles' and the spiritual man emerges. For the in the Millennium we are no longer in our flesh bodies, but rather, we are in our spiritual bodies.

1 Cor 15:51-55
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (KJV)
​

This is really funny. The guy is telling readers to read carefully as if he's observant of what he's reading.

First off, this is not the rapture. Paul elaborated on the rapture in 1 Thss 4. That's the rapture, but 1 Cor 15:51-55 is not. There's no need for Paul go into great details about the same event twice. However, this is a major and important event in the future, but it's just not the rapture. 1 Cor 15:51-55 is one of the most misunderstood scripture of all bible prophecy. Easily in the top 3 in my opinion.

Eventually I'll explain to everyone what 1 Cor 15:51-55 is someday but not today. Instead, we'll see how observant this guy who wrote this website is. And I did tried to explain 1 Cor 15 to you about 5 months ago till you dishonestly added two words ( in Christ) in 1 Cor 15:52 behind the word "dead" trying to change the subject. So you're not getting an explanation this time either.

But instead, will ask you a question. Look at all of verse 53. It said "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

1 Corinthians 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, - Online Bible Study Tools

Add verse 53 with verses 51 & 52 and what it means is everybody will become immortal. No one on earth will die.

And Paul wrote this scripture perfectly. There's no error. It is "all" and all will become immortal.

Now, if 1 Cor 15:51-55 is the rapture and let's say the rapture is pre-trib. How can there be a tribulation if no one can die during this 7 years?

Now you answer this question. "If the rapture is post-trib, how can Christ return to earth in Rev 19 and defeat the antichrist and his army if they can't be kill?"

Everyone is immortal and can't die. In fact, if you're immortal , you're no longer of this realm. You are in the supernatural realm in the spirit. Christ will return leaving heaven (supernatural realm) coming to earth (natural realm).

So here's the question again, "If the rapture is post-trib, how can Christ return to earth in Rev 19 and kill the antichrist and his army that is also immortal?"

What does the guy who created the website has to say about this? Amazing, he's centered his entire belief of the rapture on one scripture ignoring others like 1 Thess 4.

One other thing, rapture already happened in 1 Cor 15:23. No need for another rapture in verses 51-52. 1 Corinthians 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; - Online Bible Study Tools

Noticed how Paul use the dead in Christ in verse 23 but not in verse 52. There's no error in his writing. He knew what he was writing about and it perfectly lines up with other scriptures in the bible. This is a major event in the future that will also warrant the sounding of a trumpet. The only problem with 1 Cor 15 is in man's understand of this scripture.



.

 

[TPeterY]

Your definition of -saved- is far from the Scripture.
Being saved does not mean being ready for the pre-tribulation rapture... who by the way will never happen.

All Christians will have to go through the Great Tribulation if they are living at the time....those who will keep their Faith in Jesus Christ ie (not submitting to the Antichrist and the False Prophet by taking the mark of the Beast or his number) until the return of Jesus will be -spiritually- saved.

The caught up/gathering (rapture) into the clouds to meet Jesus in the air will happen when Jesus return near the END of the Great Tribulation.....NOT PRE-TRIBULATION

You know if you throw out opinions like that without any scriptural support, it isn't any more valid than me throwing out my opinion claiming the antichrist is mickey mouse.

 

[iamlamad]

No, I didn't forget the next paragraph or anything else. If you understand what you read, you can see the author changed the subject back to the rapture as a whole and no longer writing about the Post-Trib rapture.

You can see this because now he's talking about "all the above rapture" and not anyone particular one rapture.

No wonder Lamad pokes fun at you for wearing thick glasses. LOL!!!



This is really funny. The guy is telling readers to read carefully as if he's observant of what he's reading.

First off, this is not the rapture. Paul elaborated on the rapture in 1 Thss 4. That's the rapture, but 1 Cor 15:51-55 is not. There's no need for Paul go into great details about the same event twice. However, this is a major and important event in the future, but it's just not the rapture. 1 Cor 15:51-55 is one of the most misunderstood scripture of all bible prophecy. Easily in the top 3 in my opinion.

Eventually I'll explain to everyone what 1 Cor 15:51-55 is someday but not today. Instead, we'll see how observant this guy who wrote this website is. And I did tried to explain 1 Cor 15 to you about 5 months ago till you dishonestly added two words ( in Christ) in 1 Cor 15:52 behind the word "dead" trying to change the subject. So you're not getting an explanation this time either.

But instead, will ask you a question. Look at all of verse 53. It said "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

1 Corinthians 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, - Online Bible Study Tools

Add verse 53 with verses 51 & 52 and what it means is everybody will become immortal. No one on earth will die.

And Paul wrote this scripture perfectly. There's no error. It is "all" and all will become immortal.

Now, if 1 Cor 15:51-55 is the rapture and let's say the rapture is pre-trib. How can there be a tribulation if no one can die during this 7 years?

Now you answer this question. "If the rapture is post-trib, how can Christ return to earth in Rev 19 and defeat the antichrist and his army if they can't be kill?"

Everyone is immortal and can't die. In fact, if you're immortal , you're no longer of this realm. You are in the supernatural realm in the spirit. Christ will return leaving heaven (supernatural realm) coming to earth (natural realm).

So here's the question again, "If the rapture is post-trib, how can Christ return to earth in Rev 19 and kill the antichrist and his army that is also immortal?"

What does the guy who created the website has to say about this? Amazing, he's centered his entire belief of the rapture on one scripture ignoring others like 1 Thess 4.

One other thing, rapture already happened in 1 Cor 15:23. No need for another rapture in verses 51-52. 1 Corinthians 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; - Online Bible Study Tools

Noticed how Paul use the dead in Christ in verse 23 but not in verse 52. There's no error in his writing. He knew what he was writing about and it perfectly lines up with other scriptures in the bible. This is a major event in the future that will also warrant the sounding of a trumpet. The only problem with 1 Cor 15 is in man's understand of this scripture.
.

This is just more FALSE DOCTRINE.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Paul is speaking of WE believers, not sinners. it is preposterous to even think all alive on the earth at that moment in time become incorruptable. That theory will not fit the rest of scripture.



Next, this IS the same event as 1 Thes. 4. That is the moment that WE - those Paul was including with himself - will be changed.


You will have to come up with scripture to prove these are NOT speaking of the same event.


By the way, how will the earth be replenished in the Millennial - if there are none left in natural bodies?



LAMAD

 

[TPeterY]

This is just more FALSE DOCTRINE.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Paul is speaking of WE believers, not sinners. it is preposterous to even think all alive on the earth at that moment in time become incorruptable. That theory will not fit the rest of scripture.



Next, this IS the same event as 1 Thes. 4. That is the moment that WE - those Paul was including with himself - will be changed.


You will have to come up with scripture to prove these are NOT speaking of the same event.

Read all of what I wrote carefully. Then study all of 1 Cor 15. All, not just verses 51-55. If you can't figure it out, does that mean it's definately the rapture?

By the way, how will the earth be replenished in the Millennial - if there are none left in natural bodies?

That's exactly my point. How will the earth get repopulated if we're all in immortal bodies and not natural bodies?

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

And if you haven't noticed yet, it said dead, not dead in Christ, shall raised incorruptible. And it also said "we shall be change." Where's any mentioning of a catching away or meeting Christ in the air? We just change. Think about this, there was one time in history where man also instantly change.


The bible mentions the 1st death (Hebrews 9:27) and the second death (Rev 20:13-14)

It also mentions the first resurrection (1 Thes 4:16, Rev 20:4-5). If there's a second death, there has to be a second resurrection. Show me where in the bible it mentions a second resurrection and you'll prove me wrong.

In the last 2000 years, the gospel was not preached throughout the world until this century through the internet. What about those in the first century that never knew about Christ or hear of the gospel in other parts of the world? What happens to them?

 

[Riberra]

1 Cor 15:51-55
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (KJV)

This is really funny. The guy is telling readers to read carefully as if he's observant of what he's reading.

First off, this is not the rapture. Paul elaborated on the rapture in 1 Thss 4. That's the rapture, but 1 Cor 15:51-55 is not. There's no need for Paul go into great details about the same event twice. However, this is a major and important event in the future, but it's just not the rapture. 1 Cor 15:51-55 is one of the most misunderstood scripture of all bible prophecy. Easily in the top 3 in my opinion.

Eventually I'll explain to everyone what 1 Cor 15:51-55 is someday but not today. Instead, we'll see how observant this guy who wrote this website is. And I did tried to explain 1 Cor 15 to you about 5 months ago till you dishonestly added two words ( in Christ) in 1 Cor 15:52 behind the word "dead" trying to change the subject.

Yeah ,i remember that you were not in agreement when i said that probably only the dead in Christ and Christ Believers still alive and remain will be changed into their immortal body at that moment.I said that because the context of the whole 1 Cor 15 chapter seemed to concern only Christ Believers... We (Jesus Christ Believers) shall not all sleep, but WE shall all be changed

Eventually I'll explain to everyone what 1 Cor 15:51-55 is someday but not today
So you're not getting an explanation this time either.

Probably because you have none.

I have a question for you when is 1 Cor 15:51-55 going to happen ?

 

[iamlamad]

All across America millions of evangelical Christians actually believe the scenario they have seen in the fictional "Left Behind" movies. The shelves of many church libraries contain those movies and the books written by Tim LaHaye.

In the movies many people become Christians after they are "left behind" by the pretrib rapture. When their loved ones and millions of others around the world suddenly vanish, they come to realize the Bible is true. This is what I mean by a second chance.

You used Matthew chapter 25 as part of that scenario in your post. However, Matthew chapter 25 states exactly the opposite of this scenario. In the parable of the foolish virgins they are not accepted because they were not ready when the Bridegroom came for them. They were not given a second chance. The other parables in the chapter make it clear that we must be ready when the Bridegroom appears.

Your assertion that some will be given a second chance during the trib, based on Matthew chapter 25, does not agree with the text of God's Word.

The validity of our discussion will have to be judged by those willing to read God's Word, instead of accepting the opinion of either of us.


.

All across America millions of evangelical Christians actually believe
the apostle Paul and what he wrote in 1 thes. 4: the day will come soon when the trumpet will sound and the dead in Christ will rise. Then those alive in In Christ will rise. It is written and you can write against it until it happens, but it will still happen in spite of all you can do, for it is the TRUTH of God's word. It will happen as surely as day follows night and night follows day.

When it happens it will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord with the great earthquake at the 6th seal. After that the 7th seal will mark the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel.

Why do you argue so against the written word of God? Do you think it wise to write AGAINST what God will surely do?

Why not just believe Luke 21:36 and be READY?

LAMAD