racism among US evangelicals

[redleghunter]

1) calling those places "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes". What criteria is he using? People's faith in God? People's devotion to God? As Christians, what is our standard for speaking highly or lowly of certain places? Would Jesus have described these places as "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes"?

The proper DoD and State Dept terminology would be "failed states." I'm sure that would be insulting to some but when I was doing nation building that's what they called nations which had horrible and oppressive central governments, exploited their citizens and used Marxist or despotic economics which impoverished their citizens.

That is the polished response which someone could have stuck under Trump's nose.

Now the guy who runs the paper stand on 5th and Park in NYC would probably use the language Trump did to explain what I laid out above. It seems Trump has retained some of his NY pie hole (mouth). Which as POTUS he needs to jettison.

The fact is these failed and failing states (nations) have severe poverty and unemployment. The US being the great nation it is will take in tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands (small city size) a year to help out. As low skilled workers primarily, most will not find work and be reliant on government help. Some will exceed and open businesses and do well. Perhaps Trump should focus on those good news stories (there are plenty).

But bringing in thousands due to a home nation failing is not the solution. Failed states need their citizenry to rebuild. If not they become havens for terrorists and crime syndicates.

 

[Hank77]

3) Since the bible is as we all claim the DEFINITIVE word by which we live our lives, please show me where it says in the Holy Bible that asylum should be only given to people coming from places we think are lovely. Last time I checked, the bible does not make such distinction. There are plenty of biblical quotes about refugees and fugitives, and how we are to shelter them and help them.

THIS..you nailed it.
He was saying that we don't need to be taking in and helping people to have a better life who really need help, just people who don't need help.

He's thinking like a businessman. I remember him saying that in running business you don't need to have heart, but when running a government you do need to have heart.
I wonder if he remembers saying that.

 

[redleghunter]

By the way, IRL, I don't go around haranguing people on racism. I usually stay quiet and mind my own business and I tell myself, Vengeance is Mine sayeth the Lord.

Understood.

But since I now belong to this community called the Body of Christ, I think we need to have an honest convo. Not to call out and shame people, but to generate thoughts and reflections, as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Well you did a good job in the OP to divide the Body of Christ and create division (1 Corinthians 11:18).

However I understand your righteous anger. Just don't take it out on your spiritual kin.

 

[redleghunter]

3) Since the bible is as we all claim the DEFINITIVE word by which we live our lives, please show me where it says in the Holy Bible that asylum should be only given to people coming from places we think are lovely. Last time I checked, the bible does not make such distinction. There are plenty of biblical quotes about refugees and fugitives, and how we are to shelter them and help them.

I believe the Body of Christ in the US is doing great work by God's grace by providing the basic and essential needs of the poor and sick across the world. We are also the ones government turns to help integrate refugees in our country. My small church supports an African refugee church so they can have services in their own language.

The only point of disagreement with your statement is the US government as a sovereign state must have laws. Those laws must be enforced not to keep people from emigrating but to protect the citizens and legal residents already here.

Which brings us back to failed states. Are we really helping regional or global security by allowing states to fail and become havens for terrorists and criminal elements?

Refugees are supposed to by UN charter be housed near their nation of origin so that when the war is over or despot runs out of friends, the people can return and rebuild their nation.

It does not seem refugees coming to the US ever leave.

 

[redleghunter]

Thank you for enlightening me on the notional Christians.. and on the true breakdown of Trump supporters. I am glad I started this thread because I too am learning from it.

ETA: I doubt the white evangelicals that are working in those countries Trump has deshumanized approve of the way he spoke about them.

And I never said that ALL white evangelicals were racist.

Then please accept my apologies as I may have generalized your statements.

 

[jovanovic]

its not just among evangelicals in usa....racism among christians all over the world is a problem....

 

[Searching1God]

Well, it shows he uses profanity, and I disapprove of that. However, he isn't the first president to use profanity and there are much worse sins.

Imo, even if we take out the profanity, the statement is still problematic, though not as viscerally so.

The problem with Trump is that he has established a pattern of saying disrespectful things about people of color. So looking at this pattern and not just one incident, it tells you something about the way he feels about them.

 

[redleghunter]

its not just among evangelicals in usa....racism among christians all over the world is a problem....

Why single out Christians?

How many suicide vests did Christians detonate in the past few years killing others?

Blowing up other people not like you? Now that's racism.

 

[jovanovic]

Why single out Christians?

How many suicide vests did Christians detonate in the past few years killing others?

Blowing up other people not like you? Now that's racism.

because this is a christian forum and this thread is about racism among christians.

but actually yes, it seems that racism is big among christians....why so much hatred against non-white people in white christian nations? where is the opression of black people in arab nations for exemple?

we christians have killed alot of people in the history. even in modern times there have been alot of killings from people who call themself christians, look up lord resistence army in uganda and lets not forget that USA is dropping bombs on many nations killing alot of civilians and then there is the sexual abuse from catholic priests.

 

[expos4ever]

To include evangelicals in with his comments just because they voted for him is a fallacy. Did Bill Clinton voters who were Christians get blamed for sexually assaulting Monica Lewinsky....

Bad analogy. Bill Clinton did not campaign on the promotion of sexual impropriety.

Donald Trump, on the other hand, let us all know what he thinks of "those people"

 

[dreadnought]

Imo, even if we take out the profanity, the statement is still problematic, though not as viscerally so.

The problem with Trump is that he has established a pattern of saying disrespectful things about people of color. So looking at this pattern and not just one incident, it tells you something about the way he feels about them.

He attacks anyone who attacks him, mostly the mainstream media.

 

[Searching1God]

Well you did a good job in the OP to divide the Body of Christ and create division (1 Corinthians 11:18).

However I understand your righteous anger. Just don't take it out on your spiritual kin.

My purpose was not to divide the Body of Christ and create division. It is ALREADY divided along racial lines. My purpose was to generate real conversation, hopefully Holy Spirit guided conversation, so that we can attempt with His help to heal the Body of Christ.

If I have offended anyone with my OP, I am truly sorry, and please accept my apologies.

 

[redleghunter]

look up lord resistence army in uganda and lets not forget that USA is dropping bombs on many nations killing alot of civilians and then there is the sexual abuse from catholic priests.

Compared to what exactly?

 

[redleghunter]

@expos4ever
How so?

If evangelicals have a racist problem over something Trump said then why don't other voters have a problem when their elected president sexually abuses others?

The answer is we no matter who we vote for are not accountable for someone else's behavior.

 

[Searching1God]

I believe the Body of Christ in the US is doing great work by God's grace by providing the basic and essential needs of the poor and sick across the world. We are also the ones government turns to help integrate refugees in our country. My small church supports an African refugee church so they can have services in their own language.

The only point of disagreement with your statement is the US government as a sovereign state must have laws. Those laws must be enforced not to keep people from emigrating but to protect the citizens and legal residents already here.

Which brings us back to failed states. Are we really helping regional or global security by allowing states to fail and become havens for terrorists and criminal elements?

Refugees are supposed to by UN charter be housed near their nation of origin so that when the war is over or despot runs out of friends, the people can return and rebuild their nation.

It does not seem refugees coming to the US ever leave.

let me state again in case I am being misunderstood. I have no problem with a country making laws to structure the flow of emigrants and protect its citizens and legal residents already here. No country can be a haven for any and all refugees.

The issue here is the manner in which this is handled. Trumps gives the impression that he thinks refugees coming from certain countries are lower than dirt.

Looking down on refugees because they come from places we would not want to live in is not biblical.

 

[redleghunter]

Looking down on refugees because they come from places we would not want to live in is not biblical.

I agree with you.

However the nations cited on his temporary travel and immigration ban were terrorist states or those who supported terrorism, two of which were failed states. The only one I disagreed with was Iraq.

 

[expos4ever]

@expos4ever
How so?

If evangelicals have a racist problem over something Trump said then why don't other voters have a problem when their elected president sexually abuses others?

The answer is we no matter who we vote for are not accountable for someone else's behavior.

Well, let me clarify. I don't remember when the Lewinsky thing broke. If voters knew about it by the election in 1996, then, you have a point - people voted for Clinton knowing he was a cheater.

But, either way, cheating on your wife is, I suggest, not as problematic as being a racist, at least for a President.

But I think we certainly do need to account for the moral calibre of the candidate when going to the ballot box.

 

[Sketcher]

Imo, even if we take out the profanity, the statement is still problematic, though not as viscerally so.

The problem with Trump is that he has established a pattern of saying disrespectful things about people of color. So looking at this pattern and not just one incident, it tells you something about the way he feels about them.

Personally, I am not a fan of Trump. Yes, he has said some racist things. I don't know that this quote qualifies as racist, though it is very un-Christian.

 

[Sketcher]

Well, let me clarify. I don't remember when the Lewinsky thing broke. If voters knew about it by the election in 1996, then, you have a point - people voted for Clinton knowing he was a cheater.

But, either way, cheating on your wife is, I suggest, not as problematic as being a racist, at least for a President.

But I think we certainly do need to account for the moral calibre of the candidate when going to the ballot box.

The Lewinsky scandal broke after his re-election, IIRC. But Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers were in the news during his first term, enough to establish a reputation as a repeat adulterer.

 

[FireDragon76]

Thank you for engaging me. We need to be able to talk even though we may disagree. I firmly believe that with the help of the Holy Spirit, we can grow and do better as members of the body of Christ.

Back to Trump's comments. There 3 issues with it.

1) calling those places "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes". What criteria is he using? People's faith in God? People's devotion to God? As Christians, what is our standard for speaking highly or lowly of certain places? Would Jesus have described these places as "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes"?

Look up Puritanism some time, it has deep roots in American consciousness. Some Christians have a long history of shaming and denigrating people they don't see as "successful" or "virtuous" by their own standards. And this mentality is very influential in general among many white Protestants.