racism among US evangelicals

[Searching1God]

Are we going to talk about this or will we continue to sweep it under the carpet?

Are we going to talk about Trump's latest racist comments regarding certain countries? I know we are all aware of them.

Are we really going to be holding the bible in one hand while feeling righteous and turn a blind eye to the unchristian views our evangelical supported President has been professing?

When will the Christians who truly consider themselves followers of Christ stand up and speak up about what is happening to our country?

Disclaimer: Yes I am black, and born again for a little over 1 year, and I am appaled at the racism in the US evangelical community. Missionaries have been doing such great work precisely in the countries Trump denigrated, and his comments as a so-called Christian are going to be undoing a lot of this good work.

 

[dreadnought]

Are we going to talk about this or will we continue to sweep it under the carpet?

Are we going to talk about Trump's latest racist comments regarding certain countries? I know we are all aware of them.

Are we really going to be holding the bible in one hand while feeling righteous and turn a blind eye to the unchristian views our evangelical supported President has been professing?

When will the Christians who truly consider themselves followers of Christ stand up and speak up about what is happening to our country?

Disclaimer: Yes I am black, and born again for a little over 1 year, and I am appaled at the racism in the US evangelical community. Missionaries have been doing such great work precisely in the countries Trump denigrated, and his comments as a so-called Christian are going to be undoing a lot of this good work.

In the old days, if you constantly played the race card, you were told to stop. Now, if you don't constantly play the race care, you are called a racist.

 

[Francis Drake]

Speaking the truth isn't racism.

 

[dreadnought]

Speaking the truth isn't racism.

IF you were speaking the truth.

 

[Deadworm]

At first, I loved the fact that Trump is not an insincere president who is totally packaged by speech writers and party operatives. What you see and hear is generally the real guy. And unlike Obama and Hillary, Trump is a man who really tries to keep his campaign promises. During he presidential election, I heard convincing testimonials and examples making the case the Trump is NOT a racist. Indeed, MLK, Jr.'s nephew defends Trump by insisting that he is "not a racist, but just racially ignorant."

https://nypost.com/2018/01/12/mlks-nephew-trump-isnt-racist-just-racially-ignorant/

In the 1960s, the word "racist" more often meant something meaningful, but now it is an inflammatory term label around at just about any offensive interracial words and deeds. I loved Gov. John Kasick's CNN interview today. Kasick was baited to label Trump a "racist," but refused on the grounds that name-calling is offensive. At the same time Kasick made it clear that Trump;s "sh------" label was deplorable and highly offensive.

For me the problem is what Trump's potty mouth illustrates about his character: he never apologizes for his crude and inappropriate rhetoric and is quick to demean all his critics in the most unkind and often unfair ways. In short, his vindictive potty mouth gives new meaning to the opposite of "presidential." I don't think he is mentally ill, but I don't think he is savvy enough for his constant use of Twitter and his offhand comments. For example, when he tried to be an agent of reconciliation over the Charlottesville riots, his comment about there being "good people" on both sides was not an endorsement of white supremicists; it was a recognition that all sorts of political agendas were represented by the marchers and protesters. But I can certainly see why his poorly timed and poorly worded generalization made him seem like a White supremacist sympathizer.

Unfortunately, his reckless tongue, vindictiveness, and pettiness detracts from policies and political decisions that in many ways make him the greatest present of the modern era. But what he has unwittingly taught us is that "presidential" conduct really matters, despite kept promises that would otherwise make us celebrate him. For this reason, I'd sadly like to see other candidates (Pence, Romney, etc.) run against Trump in the next Republican presidential primary. Now we need a healer and reconciler, not a divider!

 

[Foxfyre]

Are we going to talk about this or will we continue to sweep it under the carpet?

Are we going to talk about Trump's latest racist comments regarding certain countries? I know we are all aware of them.

Are we really going to be holding the bible in one hand while feeling righteous and turn a blind eye to the unchristian views our evangelical supported President has been professing?

When will the Christians who truly consider themselves followers of Christ stand up and speak up about what is happening to our country?

Disclaimer: Yes I am black, and born again for a little over 1 year, and I am appaled at the racism in the US evangelical community. Missionaries have been doing such great work precisely in the countries Trump denigrated, and his comments as a so-called Christian are going to be undoing a lot of this good work.

In my opinion it is not racist in any way, shape, or form to be intellectually honest about those countries that are far less than what countries could or should be. Even if most of the people in those countries are black or brown or some other skin texture.

It is HUGELY racist, however, to accuse a leader of racism who is honestly acknowledging the truth about this or that or another country regardless of who lives there. No matter what kind of language he uses to express that.

President Trump has never said that these countries are lacking--paraphrased from how he no doubt said it of course (cough)--because the people in those countries are black or brown or whatever. He only said they are 'bad' countries to live in.

I would hope evangelicals and everybody else with a semblance of intellectually honesty would acknowledge that we can't get around that the people who live in terrible countries are usually not white, but it in no way suggests that the color of their skin has anything to do with it. And we can't just ignore that fact because the people in most of the worst countries to live in are usually not white.

My prayer is that evangelicals, other Christians, and everybody else would not fall into the 'fake news' traps or be willing join in the Presidential trashing sessions based on malicious interpretation of what actually happened, what was actually said/intended. It is only when we cut President Trump or Obama or whomever the same slack we would cut somebody we liked more, do we have any right to criticize at all.

Pray for our President and our other leaders that they may choose the best path and do what is right. And pray that we never allow our prejudices to make us approve what is wrong.

 

[HereIStand]

Racism isn't a problem in the evangelical community in the States. Trump has his supporters and he has his detractors in the evangelical world.

 

[Searching1God]

In the old days, if you constantly played the race card, you were told to stop. Now, if you don't constantly play the race care, you are called a racist.

I am not understanding you. Can you please explain? Thanks.

 

[dreadnought]

I am not understanding you. Can you please explain? Thanks.

I am saying that liberals are constantly accusing people of being racists.

 

[Searching1God]

In my opinion it is not racist in any way, shape, or form to be intellectually honest about those countries that are far less than what countries could or should be. Even if most of the people in those countries are black or brown or some other skin texture.

It is HUGELY racist, however, to accuse a leader of racism who is honestly acknowledging the truth about this or that or another country regardless of who lives there. No matter what kind of language he uses to express that.

President Trump has never said that these countries are lacking--paraphrased from how he no doubt said it of course (cough)--because the people in those countries are black or brown or whatever. He only said they are 'bad' countries to live in.

I would hope evangelicals and everybody else with a semblance of intellectually honesty would acknowledge that we can't get around that the people who live in terrible countries are usually not white, but it in no way suggests that the color of their skin has anything to do with it. And we can't just ignore that fact because the people in most of the worst countries to live in are usually not white.

My prayer is that evangelicals, other Christians, and everybody else would not fall into the 'fake news' traps or be willing join in the Presidential trashing sessions based on malicious interpretation of what actually happened, what was actually said/intended. It is only when we cut President Trump or Obama or whomever the same slack we would cut somebody we liked more, do we have any right to criticize at all.

Pray for our President and our other leaders that they may choose the best path and do what is right. And pray that we never allow our prejudices to make us approve what is wrong.

Thank you for engaging me. We need to be able to talk even though we may disagree. I firmly believe that with the help of the Holy Spirit, we can grow and do better as members of the body of Christ.

Back to Trump's comments. There 3 issues with it.

1) calling those places "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes". What criteria is he using? People's faith in God? People's devotion to God? As Christians, what is our standard for speaking highly or lowly of certain places? Would Jesus have described these places as "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes"?

2) Contrasting this as he did with Norway. What was his criteria as a self-professed Christian to uplift Norway by contrast ? Last time I checked, in Norway, abortion was perfectly legal, so was gay marriage, you know, all those things that Trump and his evangelical supporters rail against in the US. And let me not even start on the Obama style free health care the Norwegians have been enjoying...

3) Since the bible is as we all claim the DEFINITIVE word by which we live our lives, please show me where it says in the Holy Bible that asylum should be only given to people coming from places we think are lovely. Last time I checked, the bible does not make such distinction. There are plenty of biblical quotes about refugees and fugitives, and how we are to shelter them and help them.

Not saying that the US should be forever open to all refugees, that is not possible. I expect limits and structures to be put in place to deal with the refugee issue. But it should always be done in a Christian way, meaning with respect and compassion for their humanity. Not with the blatant and racist tinged disdain that is being displayed. This reeks of the devil, not of Christ.

 

[Searching1God]

I am saying that liberals are constantly accusing people of being racists.

Because racism does not exist? Racist people do not exist?

 

[dreadnought]

Because racism does not exist? Racist people do not exist?

Racism will always exist on this earth. I don't think there is nearly as much of it as you think, and I don't think it's limited to white people.

 

[Searching1God]

Racism will always exist on this earth. I don't think there is nearly as much of it as you think, and I don't think it's limited to white people.

Okay.

But we are talking about a specific incident and what a specific person said about a group of people. Telling me that racism will always exist and is not as much as I think and is not limited to white people is a way of deflecting and avoiding the particular issue we are talking about.

 

[Searching1God]

By the way, IRL, I don't go around haranguing people on racism. I usually stay quiet and mind my own business and I tell myself, Vengeance is Mine sayeth the Lord.

But since I now belong to this community called the Body of Christ, I think we need to have an honest convo. Not to call out and shame people, but to generate thoughts and reflections, as brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[dreadnought]

Okay.

But we are talking about a specific incident and what a specific person said about a group of people. Telling me that racism will always exist and is not as much as I think and is not limited to white people is a way of deflecting and avoiding the particular issue we are talking about.

I believe that Donald was referring to the Democrats' suggestion we should include those from the Temporary Protected Status program in a DACA bill. These are people that were allowed to immigrate to the United States temporarily. The problem is, after ten or twenty years, some of them are still here.

 

[redleghunter]

Are we really going to be holding the bible in one hand while feeling righteous and turn a blind eye to the unchristian views our evangelical supported President has been professing?

One does not necessarily mean the other is included.
His comments were horrible and he should make an apology.

To include evangelicals in with his comments just because they voted for him is a fallacy. Did Bill Clinton voters who were Christians get blamed for sexually assaulting Monica Lewinsky and many other women?

Missionaries have been doing such great work precisely in the countries Trump denigrated,

Indeed the greatest proportional overseas missionaries are white and evangelical. Seems there's no racism there.

Maybe Evangelicals voted for Trump due to who he was running against.

Yet you want to plaster evangelicals as racist. Evangelicals voted in the same numbers for McCain and Romney as they did for Trump. Probably the largest view being Pro Life, which Hillary Clinton was not. Perhaps some see the killing of babies more important than the economy, name calling etc.

However the truth of the matter is evangelicals did not put Trump over the hump on election day. It was actually Notional Christians who infrequently go to church or practice their faith and atheists and agnostics. As the Barna survey tells us:

Surprisingly, Trump’s biggest jump in support during the home stretch came from notional Christians. While that segment preferred Clinton by 12 points in September, they wound up siding with Trump by a two-point differential. That represents a 14-point gain in the final two months among the numerically-largest pool of religious voters.

Clinton finished strongly, in terms of total votes received, partially because of a huge rise in support among people aligned with non-Christian faiths. Her margin of preference increased among that group from seven points in September to a whopping 51 points on Election Day – a 44-point climb in eight weeks! Unfortunately for her campaign, the other-faith segment was the smallest of the five primary faith segments, rendering that growth in support significant but not enough to seal the deal.

Another shocking twist during the last two months was the shift of allegiance to Trump among atheists and agnostics. Trump gained 10 percentage points on Clinton among this group.

https://www.barna.com/research/notional-christians-big-election-story-2016/

Perhaps throw some stones at them too as they actually got him elected.

 

[Searching1God]

I believe that Donald was referring to the Democrats' suggestion we should include those from the Temporary Protected Status program in a DACA bill. These are people that were allowed to immigrate to the United States temporarily. The problem is, after ten or twenty years, some of them are still here.

Fine. I don't have an issue with that. That's a valid argument.

The problem is, what is going through someone's mind that they will take such a valid point and rephrase it in terms of crude statement about accepting people coming from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes vs Norway? We cannot blame this on having a brain fart, This shows the working of a mind that is not steeped in the word of God.

 

[brinny]

In my opinion it is not racist in any way, shape, or form to be intellectually honest about those countries that are far less than what countries could or should be. Even if most of the people in those countries are black or brown or some other skin texture.

It is HUGELY racist, however, to accuse a leader of racism who is honestly acknowledging the truth about this or that or another country regardless of who lives there. No matter what kind of language he uses to express that.

President Trump has never said that these countries are lacking--paraphrased from how he no doubt said it of course (cough)--because the people in those countries are black or brown or whatever. He only said they are 'bad' countries to live in.

I would hope evangelicals and everybody else with a semblance of intellectually honesty would acknowledge that we can't get around that the people who live in terrible countries are usually not white, but it in no way suggests that the color of their skin has anything to do with it. And we can't just ignore that fact because the people in most of the worst countries to live in are usually not white.

My prayer is that evangelicals, other Christians, and everybody else would not fall into the 'fake news' traps or be willing join in the Presidential trashing sessions based on malicious interpretation of what actually happened, what was actually said/intended. It is only when we cut President Trump or Obama or whomever the same slack we would cut somebody we liked more, do we have any right to criticize at all.

Pray for our President and our other leaders that they may choose the best path and do what is right. And pray that we never allow our prejudices to make us approve what is wrong.

I agree.

Amen.

Praying.

 

[dreadnought]

Fine. I don't have an issue with that. That's a valid argument.

The problem is, what is going through someone's mind that they will take such a valid point and rephrase it in terms of crude statement about accepting people coming from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes vs Norway? We cannot blame this on having a brain fart, This shows the working of a mind that is not steeped in the word of God.

Well, it shows he uses profanity, and I disapprove of that. However, he isn't the first president to use profanity and there are much worse sins.

 

[Searching1God]

One does not necessarily mean the other is included.
His comments were horrible and he should make an apology.

To include evangelicals in with his comments just because they voted for him is a fallacy. Did Bill Clinton voters who were Christians get blamed for sexually assaulting Monica Lewinsky and many other women?



Indeed the greatest proportional overseas missionaries are white and evangelical. Seems there's no racism there.

Maybe Evangelicals voted for Trump due to who he was running against.

Yet you want to plaster evangelicals as racist. Evangelicals voted in the same numbers for McCain and Romney as they did for Trump. Probably the largest view being Pro Life, which Hillary Clinton was not. Perhaps some see the killing of babies more important than the economy, name calling etc.

However the truth of the matter is evangelicals did not put Trump over the hump on election day. It was actually Notional Christians who infrequently go to church or practice their faith and atheists and agnostics. As the Barna survey tells us:

Surprisingly, Trump’s biggest jump in support during the home stretch came from notional Christians. While that segment preferred Clinton by 12 points in September, they wound up siding with Trump by a two-point differential. That represents a 14-point gain in the final two months among the numerically-largest pool of religious voters.

Clinton finished strongly, in terms of total votes received, partially because of a huge rise in support among people aligned with non-Christian faiths. Her margin of preference increased among that group from seven points in September to a whopping 51 points on Election Day – a 44-point climb in eight weeks! Unfortunately for her campaign, the other-faith segment was the smallest of the five primary faith segments, rendering that growth in support significant but not enough to seal the deal.

Another shocking twist during the last two months was the shift of allegiance to Trump among atheists and agnostics. Trump gained 10 percentage points on Clinton among this group.

https://www.barna.com/research/notional-christians-big-election-story-2016/

Perhaps throw some stones at them too as they actually got him elected.

Thank you for enlightening me on the notional Christians.. and on the true breakdown of Trump supporters. I am glad I started this thread because I too am learning from it.

ETA: I doubt the white evangelicals that are working in those countries Trump has deshumanized approve of the way he spoke about them.

And I never said that ALL white evangelicals were racist.