Quiz: Are you Calvinist or Arminian?

[ViaCrucis]

Because confessional Lutheran teaches the bandage of the will which fits on the Calvinists side and also that one can shipwreck one's faith like on the Arminian side.

And these are two sides of the same coin. It is our sinful, carnal will that resents God and refuses Him; and so we cannot come to God by the power of our will since the carnal man hates the things of God (Romans 8:7, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Jeremiah 17:9). For this reason we look not to our own ability, but look outside of ourselves to God's objective, external works, namely the life, suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord. It is on Christ's account that God justifies the world (Romans 5:18), that we might be reconciled to God by His grace, through faith which He Himself grants to us from outside of ourselves (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:1) having received these good things by the power of God's word through preaching and the Sacraments (Romans 10:17, Ephesians 5:26, Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12-13, Titus 3:5).

The warning against shipwrecking our faith (1 Timothy 1:19), along with many similar warnings, show up in the Scriptures because the struggle between the old man and the new continues down the middle of this life, right up until the last. And thus there is warning against abandoning the ship as it were, or shipwrecking ourselves against the sharp and jagged rocks. Because the old man continues to desire dominance--the old man loves glory and to glory in himself, and thus if left to his own devices asserts himself in all his arrogant pride and hubris. For this reason we are called to the renewal of our minds (Romans 12:2), to repentance, to confessing our sins freely (1 John 1:9) even to one another, for prayer and our own spiritual healing (James 5:16).

And so our assurance, our hope, the Anchor and Captain of the Ship of the Church is Christ--and Christ alone shall bring us to that safe harbor on the distant shore of the Age to Come, having passed through judgment, from death to life (John 5:26), the One upon whom our eyes are set as we run the race with the cheering roars of the saints who have come before us (Hebrews 12:1-3). He who has conquered and vanquished sin, death, hell, and the devil takes through the Red Sea of this life into the Promised Land--the resurrection of the dead and the life of the Age to Come.

Christ is our hope and salvation, without Him, apart from Him, we are only condemned sinners. And so God's unconditional election of us sinners in Christ, as well as the warning of shipwrecking our faith, are both solid biblical teachings. The Gospel grants us assurance in Christ, the Law continually mortifies our flesh.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Not only did Calvin himself not teach limited atonement but neither did the Synod of Dort:

The doctrine of limited atonement also includes the claim that the purpose for which Jesus gave his life was limited to the elect - the atonement is limited in its purpose.[6] For this reason, the so-called "four-point Calvinists", such as the 17th century English Puritan Richard Baxter, reject the doctrine of limited atonement and instead believe that the atonement is available to all who will believe in Christ. They also argue that it was never endorsed by Calvin or the Synod of Dort. They refer to both Calvin's claim that "It is also a fact, without controversy, that Christ came to atone for the sins 'of the whole world'"[7] and to Article 3 of the Second Main Point of Doctrine of the Synod of Dort which states that "This death of God's Son is the only and entirely complete sacrifice and satisfaction for sins; it is of infinite value and worth, more than sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world.".[8]
Limited atonement - Wikipedia

I don't know where limited atonement came from, but it doesn't appear to be what Calvin actually taught. This is why I can't be a five-point Calvinist.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

This is how the doctrine of unconditional election makes me feel, in light of Romans 9: Thank you Lord, for saving me. Thank you for calling me. I'm so sorry for my sins. Help me live in a way that shows gratitude to you for your unmerited grace.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

This article is for those who are worried about whether or not they are among God's elect:

Those who are not chosen don't believe in Jesus and don't follow Him – and don't want to. Those who do believe in Jesus know His voice and they follow Him.

If you were not chosen you would not delight in God's Word, and you would not be concerned about your salvation. Those who call upon Jesus for salvation – all of them – He receives, and does not turn away, and gives them salvation.

And that salvation is eternal and secure: “No one can snatch them from my Father's hand” (John 10:29; see also 1 Peter 1:3-5).
How do we know whether or not we've been chosen? | Bible.org

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Four-point Calvinism is the official position of Got Questions, one of my favorite apologetics sites:

Amyraldism (sometimes spelled Amyraldianism) is an off-shoot of Calvinism that holds to four of Calvinism’s five points—limited atonement being the only point to be rejected. For this reason, Amyraldism is sometimes called “four-point Calvinism” or “moderate Calvinism.”...

In order to better understand Amyraldism, it is beneficial to recap what Calvinism is. Classic Calvinism centers on the so-called five points of Calvinism, which are summarized below:

1. Total Depravity – Man, in his fallen state, is completely incapable of doing any good that is acceptable to God.

2. Unconditional Election – As a result of man’s total depravity, he is unable (and unwilling) to come to God for salvation. Therefore, God must sovereignly choose those who will be saved. His decision to elect individuals for salvation is unconditional. It is not based on anything that man is or does but solely on God’s grace.

3. Limited Atonement – In order to save those whom God has unconditionally elected, atonement for their sin had to be made. God the Father sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to atone for the sins of the elect and secure their pardon by His death on the cross.

4. Irresistible Grace – The Holy Spirit applies the finished work of salvation to the elect by irresistibly drawing them to faith and repentance. This saving call of the Holy Spirit cannot be resisted and is referred to as an efficacious call.

5. Perseverance of the Saints – Those whom God has elected, atoned for, and efficaciously called are preserved in faith until the last day. They will never fall away because God has secured them with the seal of the Holy Spirit. The saints persevere because God preserves them.

As mentioned above, the particular point that Amyraldism denies is the third point, limited atonement. Amyraldism replaces it with unlimited atonement, or the concept of “hypothetical universalism,” which asserts that Christ died for the sins of all people, not just the elect. Amyraldism preserves the doctrine of unconditional election even while teaching unlimited atonement this way: because God knew that not all would respond in faith to Christ’s atonement (due to man’s total depravity), He elected some to whom He would impart saving faith...

Amyraldism is somewhere between Calvinism and Arminianism when it comes to the extent of the atonement. Calvinism teaches that the atonement is limited to the elect; Christ’s death on the cross makes salvation a reality for the elect. Arminianism teaches that the atonement is unlimited and available to all; Christ’s death on the cross makes salvation possible to all, and man must exercise faith to make salvation actual. Amyraldism teaches that Christ died for all men, but God only applies this salvation to those whom He has chosen...

Amyraldism seems to resolve a problem that a belief in limited atonement presents—namely, the difficulty of reconciling Calvinism with passages that teach Christ died for everyone (John 3:16; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 John 2:2)...

In one sense, God’s grace is universal—He desires all to be saved (2 Peter 3:9)—but, in another sense, His grace is narrowed down and applied (through election) only to those who do not reject salvation.

Amyraldism, or four-point Calvinism, is popular today among many evangelicals, including independent Bible churches, Baptists, and some Presbyterians. Four-point Calvinism is also, essentially, the position of Got Questions Ministries, as we hold the view that the extent of the atonement was unlimited.
What is Amyraldism / Four-Point Calvinism? | GotQuestions.org

Four-point Calvinism is not only closer to what the Bible teaches, it's also closer to what Calvin himself actually taught:

How Calvinistic was John Calvin? What did he teach concerning the extent of the atonement? Let us ponder his own words...
Skip's Lighthouse: CALVIN'S FAVORITE FLOWER WAS NOT A T.U.L.I.P.

Calvin's own writings taught unlimited atonement in numerous places.

 

[BobRyan]

Can anyone please point out for me anywhere in Calvin's writings in which he explicitly taught the doctrine of limited atonement?

Interesting request.

 

[BobRyan]

This article is for those who are worried about whether or not they are among God's elect: "Those who are not chosen don't believe in Jesus and don't follow Him – and don't want to. Those who do believe in Jesus know His voice and they follow Him."

Saul "did not believe in Jesus and did not follow Him – and did not want to" -- then was converted.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Saul "did not believe in Jesus and did not follow Him – and did not want to" -- then was converted.

Yes, we never know who is potentially among God's elect until they convert. As far ourselves, there are ways of gaining assurance that we are among God's elect.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Interesting request.

It's why five-point Calvinists aren't really following John Calvin, because nowhere did he, as far as I know, teach the doctrine of limited atonement.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Some people have an aversion to predestination because they think it means God determines every little thing that ever happens. As Martin Luther explains, we have some measure of free will in all the choices we make, except for the decision to believe the Gospel and come to Christ:

Luther argued that the human will is bound, that there is no free will—at least not in things above, that is, in things pertaining to salvation. While people recoil at this, because we want to be free, because we want to play some role in our salvation, there is real freedom in recognizing our bondage and in receiving our salvation entirely as gift, by promise, as dead men and women brought to life like Lazarus in the tomb. We can’t mess it up. It doesn’t depend on us. We don’t live under a yoke or burden any longer—anxious, busy, fearful, desperate to even out the scales of justice. No, we’re set free to live as those loved, redeemed, and given a world back as gift, to be enjoyed and used for our neighbor.

Luther does grant we have freedom in things below. We can choose a Ford or Chevy, a Big Mac or a Whopper, Apple or Microsoft, apples or oranges. When it comes to our salvation, though, our freedom comes from Christ’s free will, from the fact that He freely chose to become Man, to suffer, die, and rise for us to live and move and have our being in Him, by grace, with joy and peace, even in suffering. Trying to work our way back into our salvation, therefore, is to undermine and under-appreciate Christ’s work. Serving so that He will love us is to insult His love, which already is ours, was ours even when we were His enemies. To seek freedom in slavery, slavery to sin, our natural human condition, where we freely choose how to sin, perhaps, but nevertheless can only sin, even with our best works, or to seek it in naturally human religion, which knows only the ways of the law and fallen reason, is to fail to understand and embrace the true freedom Christ was bound, beaten, nailed to a tree, and died to give us.
Luther’s Bondage of the Will: An Uncompromising Gospel | 1517

If we are saved by grace alone, then faith is entirely a gift received by Christ, rather than the result of our own effort to believe. Even if we wanted to believe in the Gospel without the Holy Spirit's help, we wouldn't be able to do so, due to our fallen state.

On the other hand, those who are not among God's elect are deserving of hell, because it was their free-willed choice to sin. Rather than complaining that God has chosen to save some and not others, we should be thankful that God has chosen to save anyone at all.

 

[BobRyan]

If we are saved by grace alone, then faith is entirely a gift received by Christ, rather than the result of our own effort to believe. .

"to EACH ONE is given a measure of faith" Rom 12:3 -- . Not "just to the elect".

Rom 10:8-10 points out that it is up to the individual to choose to exercise that faith or not.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

"to EACH ONE is given a measure of faith" Rom 12:3 -- . Not "just to the elect".

Rom 10:8-10 points out that it is up to the individual to choose to exercise that faith or not.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

We should preach the Gospel to all people, because hearing the Gospel is the means by which faith is awakened in God's elect. If not for God's election and call to those we preach, there would be no hope that our evangelistic efforts will be fruitful.

John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Romans 9
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[BobRyan]

... If not for God's election and call to those we preach, there would be no hope that our evangelistic efforts will be fruitful.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32 "I will DRAW ALL MANKIND"

All are drawn - but not all come to Him (Matt 7 ) only the "few" are saved.

===========================

Jesus is the "atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

But God does not arbitrarily pick one vs another - rather He supernaturally "convicts the WORLD" of sin and righteousness and judgment. John 16.

God is "not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" - 2 Peter 3

God "came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

"God is not partial" Rom 2:11

 

[Humble_Disciple]

I want to shout the doctrines of grace from the rooftops. When you realize that unconditional election and irresistible grace are supported by scripture, it's a cause for rejoicing.

Thank you, Lord, for electing me, saving me, and sustaining me, due to no merit on my part whatsoever! I want to live my life in gratitude to You!

 

[Humble_Disciple]

I don't mind that Calvinism offends people. God's grace and God's sovereignty should be offensive to a sinful and unbelieving world.

For those who are aware of their own sin and inability to save themselves, Calvinism should be a breath of fresh air, that saving faith is entirely the gift of God's grace, irrespective of one's free-willed efforts to believe or disbelieve.

Election has its source in the sovereign love of God. No one deserves to be chosen by God, but in his immeasurable mercy he has chosen to save some (Romans 9:15; Romans 11:5; Ephesians 1:5). God’s choice of people does not depend on anything of merit in them. It depends entirely on his unmerited favour towards them (Deuteronomy 7:6-8; Deuteronomy 9:6; Romans 11:6; 1 Corinthians 1:27-29; 2 Timothy 1:9; James 2:5).

Neither does God choose people because he foresees their faith or their good intentions (Romans 9:11; Romans 9:16). Salvation is not a reward for faith. Faith is simply the means by which people receive the undeserved salvation that God, in his mercy, gives (Romans 9:16; Romans 9:30; Ephesians 2:8-9; see FAITH). Or, to put it another way, faith is the means by which God’s eternal choice becomes a reality in their earthly experience (Acts 13:48; 1 Thessalonians 1:4-9). By coming to believe in Jesus, they show that God has chosen them. Eternal life is not their achievement, but God’s (John 6:37; John 6:40).

All the merit for a person’s salvation is in Jesus Christ, whose work of atonement is the basis on which God can forgive repentant sinners (Romans 3:23-26; see JUSTIFICATION). They are chosen only because of their union with Christ, and they are to be changed into the likeness of Christ (Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9; cf. Romans 8:29; 2 Thessalonians 2:14).

No one can argue with God concerning his work of election, for the entire human race is guilty before him and in no position to demand mercy from him. God is the sovereign Creator; human beings are but his rebellious creatures. The amazing thing is not that God shows mercy on only some, but that he shows mercy on any at all (Romans 9:14-23).
Election - Bridgeway Bible Dictionary -

 

[Humble_Disciple]

 

[Hmm]

I personally like that Calvinism offends people. God's grace and God's sovereignty should be offensive to a sinful and unbelieving world.

It's pretty sad that you find God's grace offensive (I presume you're part of ’the sinful world' and add to it like everyone else) and enjoy thinking that other people also do. It's meant to be received as good news

 

[fhansen]

It's pretty sad that you find God's grace offensive (I presume you're part of ’the sinful world' and add to it like everyone else) and enjoy thinking that other people also do. It's meant to be received as good news

Yes, and false gospels are supposed to be offensive.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Two Biblical illustrations of the Calvinist doctrine of irresistible grace are the story of Jonah and the story of Paul. Both of them resisted God's calling, and then God used extraordinary means to set them on the right path.

God uses whatever means necessary to draw His elect to Him, no matter how much they might protest or resist, even if it's not as dramatic of a divine intervention as experienced by Jonah or Paul.

 

[Humble_Disciple]