Questions from a confused guy

[AndrewMicheals]

I'm feeling like I'm in no mans land. I'm a " cradle Catholic" but not into it lately. I really need to know what is the Orthodox take on Pope Francis? First, can this be discussed here? The different Catholic forums here disallow frank discussion about this.

 

[Widlast]

There is no "Orthodox take on Pope Francis".
Some like him, some despise him, depends on which "Orthodox" person you ask.
I've know a few Orthodox monks, they've ranged from those who accept Roman Catholics as "brothers with some contrary views",
and others who would devolve into red-faced screaming of "heretics!" if Catholics were even mentioned.

 

[Bessie]

I like him a lot. I liked JPII a lot as well. I had huge issues with Benedict XVI, and that was what revealed to me just how clearly I disagreed with the Roman Catholic doctrines around papal supremacy. Having some bishops who you disagree with or who are flawed (as we all are) or outright bad is one thing, the Holy Spirit will still preserve the church... but putting humans in a position where they can unilaterally make statements for the whole church that must be held as infallible is... really scary. And that is really the point for me. The Orthodox themselves range in how liberal they are politically and what they think of individual leaders, but no individuals in the church have the power to derail the whole church. So I guess that is our take on Francis (and every other Pope).

 

[AndrewMicheals]

Sounds like Catholics.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

So the Eastern Orthodox Church doesn't have concrete positions on things pope Francis have said? Like his down playing divorced and re married couples receiving communion. In other words, he is kind of Episcopalian. I guess you guys aren't the right folks to discuss this with. I'm more concerned with his sympathising with Islam and not putting what seems to me at least, no focus in Christ being the only one who saves and putting NO focus on our Holy Mother, Theotokos.

 

[Bessie]

The Orthodox do not prohibit divorce and remarriage the way the RCC does... but we don't tend to make a lot of commentary on leaders outside our own church. They can put their own house in order.

I can tell you that in Arab countries the Orthodox church gives aid to everyone, Muslims included. We tend to take the commandment of Jesus to love everyone seriously. How the Pope is going about encouraging this to happen clearly is hard for many, but no I am not aware of any official stances from our church.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

HI, it is Lent so I am trying to watch what I say negatively of others, and even post less. However I must say in a loving way, yes Pope Francis is a concern on his Liberal stances, and his ultra liberal Jesuit background. Pope Francis while propabably meaning well, is leading his flock astray, with his Papal statements on the family, the type of Ecumenism that seem indifferent (rather then proclaiming the Christian faith to Heterodox and heretics), his disturbing statements that Atheists go to heaven (then what the point to Christ, and his Church, right?), downright horrible acceptance of Islam. Europe is being literally invaded, yet his statements seem to be blaming Christians at times, and seems to be indifferent in proclaiming the Gospel message of Salvation in Christ, and needing the Church to many of these folks, since they need Christ, and not Mhummad. The Orthodox are the right folks to talk to sir, it just everything isn't neat, packaged up perfectly, and legalistic like in the Western Churches. Yet still we are pretty traditional in the creed (no filioque) the councils (we still don't kneel on Sundays per first Ecumenical Council), the role of The Theotokos for veneration, and her intercessions, the importance of Chrismation, and Baptism to receive anyone into the body of Christ, Closed Communion only for those in good standing, and who prepared properly, the dogmas, the holy traditions, proclaiming the Orthodox Faith as the true faith (we even sing it during the liturgy), the dignity of Human life, Marriage as a Christian Sacrament, not a legal construct. We hold the faith so dear that we are even told by many priests, and Bishops to not even attend a Catholic Church, unless it for a funeral or wedding, even then don't pray or commune with them.

I also must agree with you sir, while not judging the man heart, Pope Francis actions seem downright borderline Episcopalian.

 

[rusmeister]

I think the current Pope sets a great personal example, but dangerously downplays doctrine, as I try to figure out what he really says vs what the media says he says. He really seems to think even Catholic Tradition less important than his conception of love, which seems (I stress "seems") to rule out 'tough love'.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I really need to know what is the Orthodox take on Pope Francis? First, can this be discussed here?

it is not on us to judge his soul or where he stands before God, but he is a heretic, and not a member of the Church of Christ. when I say that, I must also say that I am not judging where he will end up on Judgment Day (since only God knows), but Rome has been anathema for a long time, and they unfortunately keep drifting away from their Apostolic roots.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

I think the current Pope sets a great personal example, but dangerously downplays doctrine, as I try to figure out what he really says vs what the media says he says. He really seems to think even Catholic Tradition less important than his conception of love, which seems (I stress "seems") to rule out 'tough love'.

Yeah, that's how I feel about it. So I'm getting the impression the Pope can be discussed anywhere except the Catholic forums themselves. Odd.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

it is not on us to judge his soul or where he stands before God, but he is a heretic, and not a member of the Church of Christ. when I say that, I must also say that I am not judging where he will end up on Judgment Day (since only God knows), but Rome has been anathema for a long time, and they unfortunately keep drifting away from their Apostolic roots.

Yeah, I'm not judging his soul. Are you saying this as the papacy and Catholicism itself or just this Pope? I don't know if I'd call him a heretic. But he does seem to contradict other Popes.

 

[Lukaris]

Pope Francis concerns me; I liked Pope Benedict much better. I believe Orthodox and Catholics should be good friends & mutually distrust any reunion between our churches. Such a reunion would not be Christian to either of us probably.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

HI, it is Lent so I am trying to watch what I say negatively of others, and even post less. However I must say in a loving way, yes Pope Francis is a concern on his Liberal stances, and his ultra liberal Jesuit background. Pope Francis while propabably meaning well, is leading his flock astray, with his Papal statements on the family, the type of Ecumenism that seem indifferent(rather then proclaiming the Christian faith to Heterodox and heretics), his disturbing statements that Atheists go to heaven (then what the point to Christ, and his Church, right?), downright horrible acceptance of Islam, Europe is being literally invaded, yet he his statements seem to be blaming Christians at times, and seems to be indifferebt in proclaiming the Gospel message of Salvation in Christ, and the Church to many of these folks, who need Christ, and not Mhummad. The Orthodox are the right folks to talk to sir, it just everything isn't neat, packaged up perfectly, and legalistic like in the Western Churches. Yet still we are pretty traditional in the creed (no filioque) the councils(we still don't kneel on Sundays), the role of The Theotokos, the importance of Chrismation, and Baptism to receive anyone into the body of Christ, Closed Communion only for those in good standing, and who prepared properly, the dogmas, the holy traditions, proclaiming the Orthodox Faith as the true faith (we even sing it during the liturgy), the dignity of Human life, Marriage as a Christian Sacrament, not a legal construct. We hold the faith so dear that we are even told by many priests, and Bishops to not even attend a Catholic Church, unless it for a funeral or wedding, even then don't pray or communion with them.

I also must agree with you sir, while not judging the man heart, Pope Francis actions seem downright borderline Episcopalian.

I do appreciate this post. I feel exactly this. Is there much of a divide in Orthodoxy with liberal and conservative divides like with the Catholic Church?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, I'm not judging his soul. Are you saying this as the papacy and Catholicism itself or just this Pope? I don't know if I'd call him a heretic. But he does seem to contradict other Popes.

both. I say heretic not only because he contradicts other Popes, but the early Church as well.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

both. I say heretic not only because he contradicts other Popes, but the early Church as well.

Yep. I agree.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm not positive, but isn't there one of the Catholic forums that allows frank discussion?

Not that I'm recommending it - I honestly don't know but it seems you'd get a lot of emotion and varying opinions in a thread like that.

I can't comment on Orthodoxy's position - he's not part of our Church so in a sense it's not our business. We probably would have varying degrees of agreement/disagreement with particular policies of his. On the man as a person, we don't judge. On the topic of the existence of the papacy itself in its current form, we have strong opinions.

As for me, I didn't hear much really, but I remember liking a few things he had done, and then getting a bit concerned as time has gone by.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

As an ex-Catholic, I liked Pope Benedict much better. Pope Francis is doing much to scandalize his flock, even if what he says isn't necessarily all disagreeable. However, that said, I feel as though he almost seems to embody the spirit of Vatican II, a council that I think put Orthodoxy and Catholicism even further at odds with each other. I know nothing of Pope Francis' salvation, of course; none of us do. I do find it telling that he is so popular among non-Christians.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

I'm not positive, but isn't there one of the Catholic forums that allows frank discussion?

Not that I'm recommending it - I honestly don't know but it seems you'd get a lot of emotion and varying opinions in a thread like that.

I can't comment on Orthodoxy's position - he's not part of our Church so in a sense it's not our business. We probably would have varying degrees of agreement/disagreement with particular policies of his. On the man as a person, we don't judge. On the topic of the existence of the papacy itself in its current form, we have strong opinions.

As for me, I didn't hear much really, but I remember liking a few things he had done, and then getting a bit concerned as time has gone by.

I'm thinking if I'm better suited as an Orthodox Christian. And I don't know if the other Catholic forums allow discussion like this. I've checked out the rules, some threads and questioning Pope Francis is not allowed. I'm questioning the man for the reasons you all have stated.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

As an ex-Catholic, I liked Pope Benedict much better. Pope Francis is doing much to scandalize his flock, even if what he says isn't necessarily all disagreeable. However, that said, I feel as though he almost seems to embody the spirit of Vatican II, a council that I think put Orthodoxy and Catholicism even further at odds with each other. I know nothing of Pope Francis' salvation, of course; none of us do. I do find it telling that he is so popular among non-Christians.

Yeah man, and popular with secularist, MSM, celebrities, politicians liberal Catholics that's always been the fringe of Catholicism but now are praised as the pillar. I'm looking at the fruit of Pope Francis and it looks rotten. He's advocating much of what the Church condemned in the past.

 

[Cappadocious]

That seems a bit dramatic.