Being in the Church . . .

[Light of the East]

Okay, I'm not trying to start a firestorm here, although I think it is a possibility. In another thread the discussion went to the fact that Orthodoxy is the Church and other religious institutions are not. So here's my fireworks question for the day:

Suppose that eternal life is open to those outside the Church by the sheer grace and mercy of God. As you see it, what advantage/benefits do we as Orthodox (or should I say obedient Orthodox?) derive from our membership in the Church?

Assuming that those non-Orthodox who do receive eternal life from God's mercy (and His inscrutable decision to save them outside the Church), the one thing that seems a possibility to me is the rewards spoken of by Christ. For instance, He spoke of the Pharisees and said "they have their reward." (Matthew 6:5) In other words, nothing waiting for them on the other side. Jesus speaks of receiving a righteous man's reward (Matthew 10:41) He speaks of "not losing their reward" (Matthew 10:42).

Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

This sounds like there are different levels of reward in the life to come. Surely those who have labored on Mount Athos shall have fine rewards awaiting them, whereas the man who never fasted, prayed little, and often skipped church should not expect a great homecoming!

Well, what do you think?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Suppose that eternal life is open to those outside the Church by the sheer grace and mercy of God.

it is.

As you see it, what advantage/benefits do we as Orthodox (or should I say obedient Orthodox?) derive from our membership in the Church?

God’s grace and mercy for the unrepentant and disobedient is harmful. so it’s best to encounter Him in His fullness now to prepare for that encounter.

This sounds like there are different levels of reward in the life to come. Surely those who have labored on Mount Athos shall have fine rewards awaiting them, whereas the man who never fasted, prayed little, and often skipped church should not expect a great homecoming!

correct, although the greatness of the homecoming is from man’s POV, not God’s.

 

[Light of the East]

it is.

God’s grace and mercy for the unrepentant and disobedient is harmful. so it’s best to encounter Him in His fullness now to prepare for that encounter.

correct, although the greatness of the homecoming is from man’s POV, not God’s.

If I understand you correctly, this part is what we have spoken of before regarding the eschaton -- that the love of God is experienced as torment by the unrepentant? Correct?

 

[ArmyMatt]

If I understand you correctly, this part is what we have spoken of before regarding the eschaton -- that the love of God is experienced as torment by the unrepentant? Correct?

yes, for the unrepentant God’s love and His mercy are what they hate. love exposes, judges, and condemns sin.

 

[sparow]

Okay, I'm not trying to start a firestorm here, although I think it is a possibility. In another thread the discussion went to the fact that Orthodoxy is the Church and other religious institutions are not. So here's my fireworks question for the day:

Suppose that eternal life is open to those outside the Church by the sheer grace and mercy of God. As you see it, what advantage/benefits do we as Orthodox (or should I say obedient Orthodox?) derive from our membership in the Church?

Assuming that those non-Orthodox who do receive eternal life from God's mercy (and His inscrutable decision to save them outside the Church), the one thing that seems a possibility to me is the rewards spoken of by Christ. For instance, He spoke of the Pharisees and said "they have their reward." (Matthew 6:5) In other words, nothing waiting for them on the other side. Jesus speaks of receiving a righteous man's reward (Matthew 10:41) He speaks of "not losing their reward" (Matthew 10:42).

Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

This sounds like there are different levels of reward in the life to come. Surely those who have labored on Mount Athos shall have fine rewards awaiting them, whereas the man who never fasted, prayed little, and often skipped church should not expect a great homecoming!

Well, what do you think?

from Revelation there is salvation for some, then for these there are rewards and stripes. Works are required, faith, prayer, and Belief, are works; in excess of the minimum requirement results in rewards, I wonder what pre-empts stripes. Overcoming or avoiding the mark of the Beast, results in rewards, and that requires knowledge and understanding.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Okay, I'm not trying to start a firestorm here, although I think it is a possibility. In another thread the discussion went to the fact that Orthodoxy is the Church and other religious institutions are not. So here's my fireworks question for the day:

Suppose that eternal life is open to those outside the Church by the sheer grace and mercy of God. As you see it, what advantage/benefits do we as Orthodox (or should I say obedient Orthodox?) derive from our membership in the Church?

Because we know where The Church IS, we do not know where it ISN'T. i would rather be inside the Ark than outside and maybe be saved or not.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Because we know where The Church IS, we do not know where it ISN'T. i would rather be inside the Ark than outside and maybe be saved or not.

no, we know where it isn’t. what we don’t know is who will end up in her in the end.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

no, we know where it isn’t. what we don’t know is who will end up in her in the end.

Met. Kallistos Ware: "We know where the Church is but we cannot be sure where it is not." (chapter 16 in The Orthodox Church")

 

[ArmyMatt]

Met. Kallistos Ware: "We know where the Church is but we cannot be sure where it is not." (chapter 16 in The Orthodox Church")

“Whoever is separated from the Church and unites with an adulteress, is separated from the promises of the Church.” -St Cyprian of Carthage

you can’t separate from something without a clear line of distinction between where you are and where you aren’t. I can definitely say Richard Dawkins isn’t in the Church. what I cannot say is where he will end up.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

“Whoever is separated from the Church and unites with an adulteress, is separated from the promises of the Church.” -St Cyprian of Carthage

you can’t separate from something without a clear line of distinction between where you are and where you aren’t. I can definitely say Richard Dawkins isn’t in the Church. what I cannot say is where he will end up.

So you disagree with what The Met wrote. I was just quoting him.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So you disagree with what The Met wrote. I was just quoting him.

I do, because I agree with what the saint wrote.