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Featured Questions about the timing of the thousand years

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by DavidPT, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    As to question 2. I noted that you said maybe, then listed your reason why. Why would you think there is a possibilty that the inhabitants of the abyss could be waging war during the thousand years? I can see them doing that before the thousand years and after the thousand years, but I'm not seeing why they might also be doing it during the thousand years.
     
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    So IOW when it comes to Eschatology in particular, chronology in general is an illusion, thus meaningless.
     
  3. Gottservant

    Gottservant God loves your words, may men love them also Supporter

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    I was watching a Jim Brown sermon (grace and truth ministries) and he said he had checked the Greek and the meaning of the Greek was "at least 1000".

    It's probably something to do with the case it was put in.

    Usually what prophecies do, is they string together a series of things that will happen one after the other, Revelation on the other hand, is a perfect prophecy, so in addition to the order, it gives estimations, viz., of how closely related one thing is to another, on that timeline - the difficulty there is: there is no objective way of estimating probabilities, in advance of the future itself: so even with the future set out for them, the just must still live by faith.
     
  4. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I can't say I have ever heard of Jim Brown. I don't watch the (grace and truth ministries), so maybe that's why I never heard of him.
     
  5. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Let me try and answer it like such. I should have gotten around to answering this earlier but ended up focused on other things instead.

    When I read chapters such as Isaiah 60, I can't help but notice that there appears to be NHNE context in that chapter. Can't have a NHNE without a NJ, and vice-versa. I can't help but notice the following verse in that same chapter as well.

    Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

    If this is meaning during the NHNE, something has to put an end to this threat eventually, otherwise one has to conclude this threat is for all eternity. Throw a thousand years into the mix at the beginning of the NHNE, problem solved.
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
    Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
    (Christ indicates above that both the just and the unjust will rise up together in the judgment.)


    Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can read Revelation chronologically. Bu the oldest commentary of Revelation used the recapitulation approach. Just as you have four gospels giving various details of the same events, Revelation spans the entire New Covenant era, including the end of the world and the new heavens and earth, giving various details in parallel accounts of the same events.

    Futurism looks for the symbols to happen. But a better way is to look for what the symbols represent. In this way Revelation contains history, the present and the future.

    14.1. Recapitulation of Events Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A sketch of Revelation 20 would be;

    The angel = Greek for messenger

    the chain = the message (gospel); The gospel sent to the whole world.

    the 1000 years = Satan bound from deceiving the elect. The saints rule over him. the 1000 years end = Satan loosed.

    Note the 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when they end and he is loosed.

    Satan loosed = the Post Christian era (we now live in = immanent return of Christ) the gospel message falls on deaf ears, the world assails the Church from all quarters ushering in the end.

    “Jesus said, “This voice has not come for my benefit but for yours. Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out.” (John 12:30–31)

    So in essence, Revelation 20 is a panorama of the entire New Covenant era. Not a physical kingdom of the future.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There's only one kingdom and it's spiritual. Please consider;

    “And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

    “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

    “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

    “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

    “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

    “Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

    “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

    “And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

    “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

    “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

    “because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

    “Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

    “He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

    When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

    “for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
     
  10. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Well, when the abyss opens up these things come out that make people so sick they wish they were dead for 6 months. so maybe the conversation would go like this: leave me alone, and if they say no, then there'd be war, you know between Satan and the inhabitants of the abyss.

    allowing for all possible scenarios, I said maybe.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  11. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Okay, so the view in the quoted post appears to be, the millennia is the church age. However, this doesn't line up because the nations are still deceived and the reaping event hasn't occurred i.e still wheat and tares.
     
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is no millennium. If you consider God saves all the elect in all nations through the preaching of the gospel, Satan is bound by the gospel and by those who reign over him preaching it. That is the full extent of Satan's binding. The tares are false Christians that Satan deceives.
     
  13. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I view this as a doctrine of unbelief. I'll explain.

    The text says there will be a period when the devil is bound so he can no longer deceive the nations .

    This view says that's not going to happen (unbelief) and proposes that this only applies to Born Again Christians.
     
  14. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    The thousand years is appealing to the sense that to God a day is like one thousand years and one thousand years is like a day. Since the period prior to the rest was full of beasts, this is the fulfillment of the sabbath. Co-incidentally, there is a deception, a judgment, and then an entering into a new world just like when the same thing happened in Genesis.

    What this speaks to me is, the second this Heaven and this Earth were corrupted, God began laboring to create a new one that wasn't corrupted. Through the prophets, we see the signs of many of the days, day 5 is most notably missing unless all the life in the sea dying was that fulfillment.

    The encouraging message I get from it is, God cares about us, and the signs are all around that the new Heaven and new Earth is well on its way to completion.

    To say God would not rest after all that work, would mean He's not the same God who created the Heaven and Earth we're currently existing in. So there will be a time of rest before the judgment, the time period doesn't matter, but a thousand years does sound pretty nice.
     
  15. Mathetes66

    Mathetes66 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Acts 1:6-12 Then they gathered around him & asked him, “Lord, are you AT THIS TIME going to RESTORE the kingdom TO Israel?”

    7He said to them: “IT IS NOT FOR YOU TO KNOW THE TIMES OR DATES THE FATHER HAS SET BY HIS OWN AUTHORITY. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you & you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem & in all Judea & Samaria & to the ends of the earth.”

    9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes & a cloud hid him from their sight.

    10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, WILL COME BACK IN THE SAME WAY YOU HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN.”

    Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city.

    Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    Zechariah 14:1-9 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. 2For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem & the city will be captured, the houses looted & the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

    3Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4ON THAT DAY HIS FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, EAST OF JERUSALEM & the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north & half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come & ALL THE HOLY ONES WITH HIM.

    6On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7IT WILL BE A DAY KNOWN ONLY TO YHWH, without day or night; but when evening comes, there will be light.

    8And on that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern seaa and the other half toward the western sea,b in summer and winter alike. 9ON THAT DAY THE LORD WILL BECOME KING OVER ALL THE EARTH, THE LORD ALONE & HIS NAME ALONE.

    Zechariah 14:16 Once God’s Kingdom is established in Jerusalem among the people of Israel, Christ will ask representatives of all nations to come to Jerusalem to learn about His laws. He will summon them to Jerusalem to attend God’s annual Feast of Tabernacles: “And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts &to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.”

    Ezek 11:23 And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city & stood on the mountain that is on the east side of the city.

    Ezek 43:2 And I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of many waters & the earth shone with His glory.

    Micah 1:3,4 For behold, the LORD comes forth out of His dwelling place; He will come down & tread on the high places of the earth. The mountains will melt beneath Him & the valleys will split apart, like wax before the fire, like water cascading down a slope.

    Zechariah 4:7 What are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain. Then he will bring forth THE CAPSTONE ACCOMPANIED BY SHOUTS OF 'GRACE, GRACE TO IT!'"

    Psalm 96:13 For He is coming--He is coming to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness & the peoples in His faithfulness.

    Psalm 98:9 Before the LORD, for He comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity.

    Psalm 110:6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead; He will crush the leaders far & wide.

    Isaiah 2:4 Then He will judge between the nations & arbitrate for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will no longer take up the sword against nation, nor train anymore for war.

    Joel 3:2 I will gather all the nations & bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning MY PEOPLE, MY INHERITANCE, ISRAEL, whom they have scattered among the nations AS THEY DIVIDED UP MY LAND.

    Rev 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”

    Dan 7:27 “Then the kingdom & dominion & the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom & all dominions shall serve & obey Him.”

    Jer 23:5,6 “The days are surely coming, says the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch & he shall reign as king & deal wisely & shall execute justice & righteousness IN THE LAND. In his days Judah will be saved & Israel will live in safety.”

    Ezek 37:21,22 “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone & will gather them from every side & bring them into their own land & I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel & one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.”

    Jer 33:6-9 “Behold … I will heal them & reveal to them the abundance of peace & truth. And I will cause the captives of Judah & the captives of Israel to return, & will rebuild those places as at the first. I will cleanse them from all their iniquity by which they have sinned against Me & I will pardon all their iniquities … Then [Jerusalem] shall be to Me a name of joy, a praise & an honor before all nations of the earth, who shall hear all the good that I do to them; they shall fear & tremble for all the goodness & all the prosperity that I provide for it.”

    Micah 4:2 “Many nations shall come & say, ‘Come & let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways & we shall walk in His paths.’ For out of Zion the law shall go forth & the word of the LORD from Jerusalem ”

    Luke 24:25 Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that the prophets have spoken."

    Luke 24:44,45 Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets & the Psalms.” Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are adding to Revelation if you ignore the doctrine of election and to whom the binding of Satan applies.
     
  17. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Not so, but you might be subtracting from it. It's hard to say, since no one knows what the original looked like.
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You need to consider all scripture, not just a few symbols that most misconstrue.
     
  19. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    You know recently I listened to an audio bible and it took about a week to listen to the scripture, being able to remember the beginning when you get to the end is really helpful when interpreting the scriptures. Though, I'd probably recommend 30 days since the mind can only take in so much of one thing before it's no longer attentive to detail.

    I really do consider all scripture, since it's a part of me, it's really important to interpret it properly so I stay balanced.

    The application I get from "the chains that bind satan" is there is a way we can bind all evil around us also, but in order to learn this from God, we first need to believe that this is possible since God teaches us through faith.

    So I have many intellectual reasons to disagree with the idea you are putting forth, but also from experience of applying the concept, I sincerely believe you're missing out on something.

    However, it is not a sin to be wrong in your bible interpretation, as it is written, may God be true and every man a liar. So we could be both wrong, and it wouldn't matter. So I focus on how I can apply what I get out of the text.

    Thanks again.
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You need to be a Calvinist before you can understand the scope of Satan's binding. Arminianism will throw you off track.
     
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