Questions about origins of life timeline

[dad]

No. A book of old stories is not reality, no matter how much you want it to be.

His book of stories is more reality than the sun rising tomorrow..literally. Not like you get a vote on that issue.

Yes, the present state, in which humans can interbreed with aliens and faster than light travel is possible.

?? Aliens?? Have you plunged off the deep end here?

Yes, definitely fits perfectly with what we know about science.

Of course the writers of Star Trek tried to follow science as best they knew how. It may fit with the narrow minded little models of the universe and life that science fosters...that matters not at all to reality.

And God has done nothing to even hint to me that he exists.

He died for us and rose again. I would call that a hint.

Oh! A holy text promises that it is the word of God, so therefore it must be!

Peter really lived, and Isaiah, etc etc. The sacred well preserved Scriptures record many things that history has later validated, and as one digs into the word of God, one sees that it is quite real.

But I can write that same thing on a napkin. Do you realise that something can claim that it is the word of God without actually BEING the word of God?

No, you cannot write all the main kingdoms of the world before they existed or had power on a napkin. Nor the fact that Israel would be captives for so many exact years. Nor etc etc etc etc etc.

God would save your life by killing you.

Ya huh.

Death is defeated and believers never die. We have the victory over death. Totally. Really. Literally. Eternally. That is what Jesus gave us.

So if God kills you (a slow and horrible death, by the way, dying of exposure and dehydration), you'd come back in ghost form to let me know you were okay, would you?

I would not know loved ones were OK by them coming back to this world as ghosts. I know they are OK because the One who made this earth promised to take them to be with Him when the body dies.


Joh 11:26 -And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Of course the writers of Star Trek tried to follow science as best they knew how. It may fit with the narrow minded little models of the universe and life that science fosters...that matters not at all to reality.

......

No they didn't. They wrote fiction in which space ships could travel faster than light, teleportation of living people was possible, humans could breed with aliens from other planets, everybody spoke english no matter from what planet, and every time they came across another spaceship, it was always right side up.

 

[biggles53]

ALL things work together for our good. Nothing can separate us from Jesus. Ever. In this world, judgment begins at the house of God. I take that to mean that He arranges our life events such as that we start learning things and maybe even suffering to some extent for some sins to learn lessons etc! Even the dark days are for a reason. His judgments are pure and righteous altogether, and seasoned with mercy. More to be desired are they than gold. Our trials and testings are all for a reason, and for our good.

Death has no sting for believers. It is but a small step on our glorious way through eternity!

So whether He knows it is best for us to stay here for a while longer, or go on to a better place, there are real reasons, and He knows what is really best for us.

We can't lose for winning!

Come on over to the wonderful side.

No....YOU come over to the Simpson Desert and take up Kylie's challenge....!

 

[Kylie]

His book of stories is more reality than the sun rising tomorrow..literally. Not like you get a vote on that issue.

So when the Bible contradicts reality, I guess reality's just wrong then, huh?

?? Aliens?? Have you plunged off the deep end here?

we're talking about Star Trek and how it DOESN'T follow present state rules, remember? O course, you seem to conveniently forget what we're talking about so you can have a disrespectful shot at my sanity in an attempt to ridicule me. So much for your assurances that you'd try to be more respectful.

Of course the writers of Star Trek tried to follow science as best they knew how. It may fit with the narrow minded little models of the universe and life that science fosters...that matters not at all to reality.

Like the faster than light travel bit? How does that fit into current scientific knowledge?

He died for us and rose again. I would call that a hint.

Excuse me: WE ARE TOLD that he ALLEGEDLY rose from the dead. So what? In Star Trek, we are TOLD that captain Kirk ALLEGEDLY took two whales from the year 1986. Does that mean that it happened? You need to learn the difference between a claim made in a story and reality. If the claim is true, there will be evidence of it in reality.

Peter really lived, and Isaiah, etc etc. The sacred well preserved Scriptures record many things that history has later validated, and as one digs into the word of God, one sees that it is quite real.

Prove it. Show me a contemporary source anywhere that shows that these people actually existed. The Bible doesn't count, because it wasn't written until years afterwards.

No, you cannot write all the main kingdoms of the world before they existed or had power on a napkin. Nor the fact that Israel would be captives for so many exact years. Nor etc etc etc etc etc.

It's a big napkin.

And there is ZERO evidence in the real world to support the idea that the Egyptians held the Israelites as slaves. if you know of some actual evidence (remembering what I said earlier about why the Bible doesn't count), please show it.

Death is defeated and believers never die. We have the victory over death. Totally. Really. Literally. Eternally. That is what Jesus gave us.

Sales pitch. Yawn. I don't like infomercials.

I would not know loved ones were OK by them coming back to this world as ghosts. I know they are OK because the One who made this earth promised to take them to be with Him when the body dies.

Joh 11:26 -And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

So you read the book, decide that it is true because the book itself tells you it is true, and thus your loved ones go to heaven and that proves it is true.

My goodness, the lack of logic there is astounding.

 

[dad]

No they didn't. They wrote fiction in which space ships could travel faster than light, teleportation of living people was possible, humans could breed with aliens from other planets, everybody spoke english no matter from what planet, and every time they came across another spaceship, it was always right side up.

They obviously did try to use science but not as the main concept of the show.

"
The Physics of Star Trek is a 1995 nonfiction book by Arizona State University professor and theoretical physicist Lawrence M. Krauss. It discusses the physics involved in various concepts and objects described in the Star Trek universe. He investigates the possibility of such things as inertial dampeners and warp drive, and whether physics as we know it would allow such inventions. He also discusses time travel, light speed, pure energy beings, wormholes, teleportation, and other concepts that are staples of the Star Trek universe. The book includes a foreword by astrophysicist Stephen Hawking.[1]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Physics_of_Star_Trek


HowStuffWorks "Top 10 'Star Trek' Technologies That Actually Came True"



"
Well, as for the science in Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry and the writers of the show have started with science we know and s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d it to fit a framework of amazing inventions that support action-filled and entertaining stories. Roddenberry knew some actual basic astronomy. He knew that space ships unable to go faster than light would take decades to reach the stars, and that would be too boring for a one-hour show per week. So he put warp drives into the show -- propulsion by distorting the space-time continuum that Einstein conceived. With warp drive the ships could reach far stars in hours or days, and the stories would fit human epic adventures, not stretch out for lifetimes. Roddenberry tried to keep the stars realistically far, yet imagine human beings with the power to reach them. Roddenberry and other writers added magic like the transporter and medical miracles and the holodeck, but they put these in as equipment, as powerful tools built by human engineers in a future of human progress. They uplifted our vision of what might be possible, and that's one reason the shows have been so popular.
The writers of the show are not scientists, so they do sometimes get science details wrong. For instance, there was a show in which Dr. Crusher and Mr. LaForge were forced to let all of the air escape from the part of the ship they were in, so that a fire would be extinguished. The doctor recommended holding one's breath to maintain consciousness as long as possible in the vacuum, until the air was restored. But as underwater scuba divers know, the lungs would rupture and very likely kill anyone who held his breath during such a large decompression. The lungs can't take that much pressure, so people can only survive in a vacuum if they DON'T try to hold their breath.
I could name other similar mistakes. I'm a physicist, and many of my colleagues watch Star Trek. A few of them imagine some hypothetical, perfectly accurate science fiction TV series, and discredit Star Trek because of some list of science errors or impossible events in particular episodes. This is unfair. They will watch Shakespeare without a complaint, and his plays wouldn't pass the same rigorous test. Accurate science is seldom exciting and spectacular enough to base a weekly adventure TV show upon. Generally Star Trek is pretty intelligently written and more faithful to science than any other science fiction series ever shown on television..."

NASA - The Science of Star Trek

 

[dad]

So when the Bible contradicts reality, I guess reality's just wrong then, huh?

That depends what you thought reality was.

we're talking about Star Trek and how it DOESN'T follow present state rules, remember? O course, you seem to conveniently forget what we're talking about so you can have a disrespectful shot at my sanity in an attempt to ridicule me. So much for your assurances that you'd try to be more respectful.

I thought I agreed to 'try' not to use the word woman, if you behave real well. I have no respect for twaddle and nonsense. Aliens are hardly reality.

Like the faster than light travel bit? How does that fit into current scientific knowledge?

See last post.

Excuse me: WE ARE TOLD that he ALLEGEDLY rose from the dead. So what? In Star Trek, we are TOLD that captain Kirk ALLEGEDLY took two whales from the year 1986. Does that mean that it happened? You need to learn the difference between a claim made in a story and reality. If the claim is true, there will be evidence of it in reality.

Adults should discern a difference between known fiction, and known history and actual accounts.

Prove it. Show me a contemporary source anywhere that shows that these people actually existed. The Bible doesn't count, because it wasn't written until years afterwards.

You doubt Peter and Paul existed!? Just imagine they look like aliens, that may help!

It's a big napkin.

And there is ZERO evidence in the real world to support the idea that the Egyptians held the Israelites as slaves.

Zero against. The tomb of Joseph is in the area near or in Israel. You think he never lived?

So you read the book, decide that it is true because the book itself tells you it is true,

The book told me Medo Persia would follow Babylon and Greece would come next, and Rome after...etc. It told when Jesus would come, where, and how exactly in minute detail. Etc.

We saw Jesus risen from the dead, and also rise into heaven. It is a done deal. Denial is foolish.

 

[Kylie]

That depends what you thought reality was.

Reality is what can be experienced when you go outside. It is what can be verified, as opposed to things like hallucinations, dreams, etc.

I thought I agreed to 'try' not to use the word woman, if you behave real well. I have no respect for twaddle and nonsense. Aliens are hardly reality.

Well, funnily enough, I agree that Star trek isn't reality as well! So how about you stop dancing around the issue and respond to the actual point I was making?

Adults should discern a difference between known fiction, and known history and actual accounts.

Except we have no evidence that the stories in the Bible ever happened, have we?

You doubt Peter and Paul existed!? Just imagine they look like aliens, that may help!

Do you have any contemporary accounts of them? No? All your accounts and sources are from much later than they are alleged to have been alive? So why should I believe?

Zero against. The tomb of Joseph is in the area near or in Israel. You think he never lived?

Lots of people named Joseph.

And there's quite a lot of evidence against the idea that the Egyptians kept the Israelites as slaves.

The book told me Medo Persia would follow Babylon and Greece would come next, and Rome after...etc. It told when Jesus would come, where, and how exactly in minute detail. Etc.

The Bible told you these things? Passages please?

We saw Jesus risen from the dead, and also rise into heaven. It is a done deal. Denial is foolish.

You saw it? You were there, were you? Or maybe you were just TOLD it happened.

Remember, people can tell you anything they want. Doesn't mean it's true.

 

[dad]

Reality is what can be experienced when you go outside. It is what can be verified, as opposed to things like hallucinations, dreams, etc.

Reality is more than walking outside. It is more than a belief system imposed on evidence by godless dweebs.

Well, funnily enough, I agree that Star trek isn't reality as well! So how about you stop dancing around the issue and respond to the actual point I was making?

Which is...?

Except we have no evidence that the stories in the Bible ever happened, have we?

Plenty. Jerusalem really was destroyed. Jews really were taken captive. There really is a Bethlehem. etc.

Do you have any contemporary accounts of them? No? All your accounts and sources are from much later than they are alleged to have been alive? So why should I believe?

Israel was destroyed as a nation, remember? The records of the temple were destroyed. The writings were around before they were compiled also.

Lots of people named Joseph.

Don't insult the nation of israel, who knew who it was.

And there's quite a lot of evidence against the idea that the Egyptians kept the Israelites as slaves.

No. You are dreaming. None.

The Bible told you these things? Passages please?

Yes the kingdoms were all foretold. Daniel 2 for example. The captivity was foretold in Jeremiah. Jesus foretold the destruction of the temple and etc etc etc.

You saw it? You were there, were you? Or maybe you were just TOLD it happened.

My family saw it. Many died verifying that record.

 

[Kylie]

Reality is more than walking outside. It is more than a belief system imposed on evidence by godless dweebs.

Reality is that which actually exists.

Which is...?

That a fictional story can make claims that require rejection of evidence from reality in order to believe those claims.

Plenty. Jerusalem really was destroyed. Jews really were taken captive. There really is a Bethlehem. etc.

There really was a Korean War, therefore the tv show M*A*S*H is a true story. There really is the CIA, therefore American Dad is a documentary.

Yeah, doesn't work, dad. Try again.

Israel was destroyed as a nation, remember? The records of the temple were destroyed. The writings were around before they were compiled also.

Oh, how convenient. You have no records of it because they were all destroyed.

And all records of the happy little elves were destroyed in the San Francisco fire in 1906, and that's why you've never heard of them.

Don't insult the nation of israel, who knew who it was.

Again, you miss the point.

No. You are dreaming. None.

Yeah, you tell yourself that.

Yes the kingdoms were all foretold. Daniel 2 for example. The captivity was foretold in Jeremiah. Jesus foretold the destruction of the temple and etc etc etc.

Oh, it must be true then, because there's no way that someone could have seen something that happened and then said, "Hey, let's write a story where some guy ages ago said this thing we just saw was going to happen. Then it will look like this guy we are writing about could tell the future and it will make people think the story is true." And nobody ever said, "Hey, we've got this old story with a prophecy in it. Let's just write that the prophecy came true so it looks like the old story is correct," either.

My family saw it. Many died verifying that record.

Your family were there when Jesus rose from the dead.

Really.

 

[Dizredux]

and every time they came across another spaceship, it was always right side up.

I never noticed that! I love it, Oh yes!

Even in Star Wars, the great fleets of ships were always the same side up.

Dizredux

 

[Armoured]

I never noticed that! I love it, Oh yes!

Even in Star Wars, the great fleets of ships were always the same side up.

Dizredux

Not true. When in formation, Star Wars fleets are aligned, but they move in all three dimensions. I present the Asteroid field chase sequence from Empire for your consideration, which not only has ships moving and aligned through all three dimensions, but even features Star Destroyers on different axes crashing into each other.

 

[Dizredux]

Not true. When in formation, Star Wars fleets are aligned, but they move in all three dimensions. I present the Asteroid field chase sequence from Empire for your consideration, which not only has ships moving and aligned through all three dimensions, but even features Star Destroyers on different axes crashing into each other.

I stand corrected.

Dizredux

 

[PsychoSarah]

ALL things work together for our good. Nothing can separate us from Jesus. Ever. In this world, judgment begins at the house of God. I take that to mean that He arranges our life events such as that we start learning things and maybe even suffering to some extent for some sins to learn lessons etc! Even the dark days are for a reason. His judgments are pure and righteous altogether, and seasoned with mercy. More to be desired are they than gold. Our trials and testings are all for a reason, and for our good.

Death has no sting for believers. It is but a small step on our glorious way through eternity!

So whether He knows it is best for us to stay here for a while longer, or go on to a better place, there are real reasons, and He knows what is really best for us.

We can't lose for winning!

Come on over to the wonderful side.

What if god's plan is to make your life absolute trash and awful so that others will live better? What if god sets up some people to go to hell so that others won't? How can god possibly have a plan and have people have free will, it would be like playing a game of chess and wanting it to go a precise way, but the pieces moved independently of your will and could easily mess it up.

 

[dad]

Reality is that which actually exists.



That a fictional story can make claims that require rejection of evidence from reality in order to believe those claims.



There really was a Korean War, therefore the tv show M*A*S*H is a true story. There really is the CIA, therefore American Dad is a documentary.

Yeah, doesn't work, dad. Try again.



Oh, how convenient. You have no records of it because they were all destroyed.

Not all, Luke, and John and Mark, and Matthew were forewarned of the trouble, and promised that they would receive the record just right in direct inspiration from God's Holy Spirit. Others also were inspired, and we have that immaculate record today.

Oh, it must be true then, because there's no way that someone could have seen something that happened and then said, "Hey, let's write a story where some guy ages ago said this thing we just saw was going to happen. Then it will look like this guy we are writing about could tell the future and it will make people think the story is true." And nobody ever said, "Hey, we've got this old story with a prophecy in it. Let's just write that the prophecy came true so it looks like the old story is correct," either.

Work on your denial and Last Thusdayism problem, and get back to us if you make real progress.

Your family were there when Jesus rose from the dead.

Yes. We saw Him ascend into heaven too. So do not dare insinuate my relatives were lying.

 

[dad]

What if god's plan is to make your life absolute trash and awful so that others will live better?

We already know His plan, life eternal. Peace and laughter, and love ever after.

What if god sets up some people to go to hell so that others won't?

No. He does everything He can to give them life.

How can god possibly have a plan and have people have free will, it would be like playing a game of chess and wanting it to go a precise way, but the pieces moved independently of your will and could easily mess it up.

Once saved, I have no choice to be unsaved. Choice is limited.

 

[PsychoSarah]

We already know His plan, life eternal. Peace and laughter, and love ever after.


No. He does everything He can to give them life.


Once saved, I have no choice to be unsaved. Choice is limited.

This supposed plan also involves the majority of people suffering for all eternity, as far fewer than half the world's population are Christian. What kind of plan is that?

Clearly not, god could show itself so that believing in it was reasonable, and that worshiping it was an informed choice.

There are theists who become atheists, clearly this is not correct.

 

[dad]

This supposed plan also involves the majority of people suffering for all eternity, as far fewer than half the world's population are Christian. What kind of plan is that?

I don't think we know the numbers.

Ac 3:21 - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Clearly not, god could show itself so that believing in it was reasonable, and that worshiping it was an informed choice.

He did. He came down here and showed us that He could dance all over death and disease.

There are theists who become atheists, clearly this is not correct.

Christ was not a 'theist' nor am I. Paul was not a theist, nor anyone else in the bible! His people knew Him, Theists do something more like 'sort of try to kinda believe that there is a god of some kind, who or what, they do not know'.

Once Jesus comes in to our heart, He promises He will never leave. Clearly.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I don't think we know the numbers.

Ac 3:21 - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. He did. He came down here and showed us that He could dance all over death and disease.


Christ was not a 'theist' nor am I. Paul was not a theist, nor anyone else in the bible! His people knew Him, Theists do something more like 'sort of try to kinda believe that there is a god of some kind, who or what, they do not know'.

Once Jesus comes in to our heart, He promises He will never leave. Clearly.

God supposedly came to earth in human form, in a time of myths and no ability to keep solid, staying proof of the event. A book like the bible proves nothing, god chose to leave nothing behind so that its existence was truly unquestionable, instead being narcissistic and ridiculous, willing to only forgive people if they believe in the right god, choosing from hundreds of religious texts, none of which stand out as special compared to each other.

Theists are any people who believe in a god, I was being general and not stating any religions specifically with that.

 

[Kylie]

Not all, Luke, and John and Mark, and Matthew were forewarned of the trouble, and promised that they would receive the record just right in direct inspiration from God's Holy Spirit. Others also were inspired, and we have that immaculate record today.

So? Captain Kirk was warned to turn back from the territory of the First Federation, and he didn't, and he continued and encountered the Fesarius, and we still have that record today.

What's your point? You can't prove anything by repeating an old story.

Work on your denial and Last Thusdayism problem, and get back to us if you make real progress.

It's easily solved. Go with what reality indicates.

Yes. We saw Him ascend into heaven too. So do not dare insinuate my relatives were lying.

Wow, and how exactly have you traced your bloodline back that far?

 

[dad]

God supposedly came to earth in human form, in a time of myths and no ability to keep solid, staying proof of the event.

Nothing is more solid. When they accused Him, they asked how He did miracles, not whether He did them! He may have banished disease from the land, so many multitudes were healed. There was no way to deny it.

Today is the dark age of ages and the time of myth and fables.

....hundreds of religious texts, none of which stand out as special compared to each other.

False. The bible stands alone in it's preservation and fulfilled prophesies. Nothing remotely compares.

Theists are any people who believe in a god, I was being general and not stating any religions specifically with that.

That is unrelated to being saved. The devils know there is a God. Most pagans know there are gods.