Questions About Heaven and Hell

[EarthlyHope]

When did Heaven and Hell come into existence?

Was it God's will for humans to enter heaven or to stay on a paradise earth?

Does the devil "manage" Hell? If so, does that mean God is using the devil to punish sinful people?

If Adam and Eve said no to the snake and never ate the forbidden fruit, would there be a heaven for humans to enter?

 

[Solomons Porch]

I dont believe the devil manages hell, Christ has the keys. I suppose we would have lived in a wonderful paradise here on earth with Him. Wish it wouldve turned out that way
But we will get to be with Him in heaven one day and that is a great reward.

 

[~Anastasia~]

When did Heaven and Hell come into existence?

Was it God's will for humans to enter heaven or to stay on a paradise earth?

Does the devil "manage" Hell? If so, does that mean God is using the devil to punish sinful people?

If Adam and Eve said no to the snake and never ate the forbidden fruit, would there be a heaven for humans to enter?

Heaven ... is usually referring to where God's throne is, though it seems you mean to define it as a "place of reward"?

Our ultimate home is to be the restored earth. I don't think God's plan ever changed.

Satan is not "in charge" in hell, torturing people. Wouldn't that be like rewarding Satan? That's Dante, not Scripture.

If there had been no fall, Adam and Eve would probably have remained where they were, sin and death would not be present in the world, and God would make Himself present with men. But they did sin, so ... in the restored earth, redeemed mankind will live, there will be no sin or death in the world, and God will make Himself present with men.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Our ultimate home is to be the restored earth. I don't think God's plan ever changed.

Good statement.

Satan is not "in charge" in hell, torturing people. Wouldn't that be like rewarding Satan? That's Dante, not Scripture.

Yes, and no. Sinners are given over to demons, and ultimately to Hell if they choose, because God lets them have the desires of their hearts. That was the company they chose to keep in life, and because Satan through his demons lured them into preferring their company over God's, the sinner becomes a sort of "reward" to be tormented by them in eternity. As cruel as that sounds, it's part of what makes Hell so terrifying. Sinners come to find out that they rejected the One who truly loved them in favor of one who secretly wanted only their torment. Satan will get his, rest assured of that. Death and Hell will eventually be cast into the Lake of Fire, at which time the tormentor will become the tormented.

My personal opinion of Dante has always been that he probably had a genuine extended vision from God, but chose to disguise it as fiction to avoid religious scrutiny. As for Satan being in charge of Hell, he is, but that doesn't mean that's where he always is. Much of his kingdom and government resides in Second Heaven. It's why he is sometimes referred to as "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2).

In answer to the question, "Is God using the devil to punish sinful people?" think of it more in terms of having the freewill to choose one "husband" over another. The wicked just make the ultimate bad choice, not knowing what they are setting themselves up for. God in his love gives them freewill, but they use it to make the wrong choice, and find out in eternity how foolish that choice was.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Good statement.



Yes, and no. Sinners are given over to demons, and ultimately to Hell if they choose, because God lets them have the desires of their hearts. That was the company they chose to keep in life, and because Satan through his demons lured them into preferring their company over God's, the sinner becomes a sort of "reward" to be tormented by them in eternity. As cruel as that sounds, it's part of what makes Hell so terrifying. Sinners come to find out that they rejected the One who truly loved them in favor of one who secretly wanted only their torment. Satan will get his, rest assured of that. Death and Hell will eventually be cast into the Lake of Fire, at which time the tormentor will become the tormented.

My personal opinion of Dante has always been that he probably had a genuine extended vision from God, but chose to disguise it as fiction to avoid religious scrutiny. As for Satan being in charge of Hell, he is, but that doesn't mean that's where he always is. Much of his kingdom and government resides in Second Heaven. It's why he is sometimes referred to as "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2).

In answer to the question, "Is God using the devil to punish sinful people?" think of it more in terms of having the freewill to choose one "husband" over another. The wicked just make the ultimate bad choice, not knowing what they are setting themselves up for. God in his love gives them freewill, but they use it to make the wrong choice, and find out in eternity how foolish that choice was.

I might not have given enough detail.

It is certainly true that God uses demons for His purposes, and Scripture records instructions even to turn one over to the enemy so that hopefully his soul will be saved. Thank you for bringing those things up.

But I was really thinking if the idea that some have that hell is some created eternal place of punishment, created by God and set up so that the "unsaved" would spend eternity being gleefully tormented by demons, who would be in charge of the place. That is problematic for us on several levels, but mostly it is that the demons are rewarded by torturing people.

We actually have a somewhat different view of hell than the West. Rather than the vengeance of God, those who resist and refuse God's mercy, or hate Him, will be tormented because of what they have become as a result, because God will still love them. But much of the details are not known, so we also don't like to speculate.

 

[EarthlyHope]

Heaven ... is usually referring to where God's throne is, though it seems you mean to define it as a "place of reward"?

Our ultimate home is to be the restored earth. I don't think God's plan ever changed.

Satan is not "in charge" in hell, torturing people. Wouldn't that be like rewarding Satan? That's Dante, not Scripture.

If there had been no fall, Adam and Eve would probably have remained where they were, sin and death would not be present in the world, and God would make Himself present with men. But they did sin, so ... in the restored earth, redeemed mankind will live, there will be no sin or death in the world, and God will make Himself present with men.

So essentially, the Jehovah Witnesses are right? Whenever scripture speaks of paradise and heaven, does it mean a restored earth? And by heaven I mean in the traditional sense, as I thought nearly all Christians have the same concept of heaven.

 

[~Anastasia~]

So essentially, the Jehovah Witnesses are right? Whenever scripture speaks of paradise and heaven, does it mean a restored earth? And by heaven I mean in the traditional sense, as I thought nearly all Christians have the same concept of heaven.

I don't know what the Jehovah's Witnesses say about a restored earth. More importantly, their Christology is a problem, so I can't give a simple "yes" reply to the JW being right.

But yes, God will restore all things. Our home will be on the earth, which will be restored. While Revelation is a heavily symbolic book, the restoration of the earth, and God dwelling with us here, is literal. Now, I do not know if we will be RESTRICTED to the Earth, or not. And there is a strong sense of heaven and earth being joined, in a way.

As to heaven, the ideas most Christians have about heaven, a place where God now dwells, there is also reason to believe the spirits of those who die in Christ go to some such realm. There are certainly some spirits who will be there. But at the end of this age, all things will be restored, our spirits will be reunited with our (incorruptible) bodies, there will be the judgement, and God will dwell with man on the restored earth. But as I said, there is a strong sense of heaven and earth being united, in a sense.

But the idea that many have, that they will die, their spirit (which they often think is the "real them") going to someplace in the sky with God, escaping earth forever to remain a spirit in a heavenly realm - is wrong. It is partly the result of an idea that all material things are "bad" and spiritual is "good" but that is part of Gnosticism. God said of the Creation that it was good, very good. And that was and is His plan. It will all be very good again someday, and we will have bodies, since a disembodied spirit is an unnatural state for mankind.

I think Paradise/Eden is probably a fairly good picture of at least part of what the restored earth will be like.

 

[EarthlyHope]

I don't know what the Jehovah's Witnesses say about a restored earth. More importantly, their Christology is a problem, so I can't give a simple "yes" reply to the JW being right.

But yes, God will restore all things. Our home will be on the earth, which will be restored.

I meant strictly in regards to eschatology. JWs believe that the wicked will be destroyed and the righteous saved. The reward of salvation is a paradise earth and dead people who were either good or didn't get to learn about God will be resurrected, in addition to important Bible characters like Noah, Moses, Abraham, the prophets. They also teach that traditionalist Heaven and Hell do not exist. They assert that whenever Christ speaks of the kingdom of heaven, or heavenly salvation as a post-death reward, what he really meant was a paradise earth. But to add another layer of confusion, they do teach of a "different" heaven, that being one where 144,000 literal JWs who call themselves "anointed" will live in spirit with Christ for 1,000 years as judges and priests. As you may imagine there are problems with the second part of that, creating a very biased system of salvation, that being which I don't believe Christ taught.

As to heaven, the ideas most Christians have about heaven, a place where God now dwells, there is also reason to believe the spirits of those who die in Christ go to some such realm. There are certainly some spirits who will be there. But at the end of this age, all things will be restored, our spirits will be reunited with our (incorruptible) bodies, there will be the judgement, and God will dwell with man on the restored earth. But as I said, there is a strong sense of heaven and earth being united, in a sense.

What do you mean end of this age? Is that the millennial reign? And if the earth is restored, why would God dwell with man? I agree with the heaven and earth as a whole salvation being united (although I don't know many details). But I cannot imagine God dwelling with mankind. If you mean that God will again become flesh and blood, will it be in the original body of Jesus Christ? Why would he abandon heaven to dwell with mankind as a man? His role as a fleshly man was already fulfilled.

But the idea that many have, that they will die, their spirit (which they often think is the "real them") going to someplace in the sky with God, escaping earth forever to remain a spirit in a heavenly realm - is wrong. It is partly the result of an idea that all material things are "bad" and spiritual is "good" but that is part of Gnosticism. God said of the Creation that it was good, very good. And that was and is His plan. It will all be very good again someday, and we will have bodies, since a disembodied spirit is an unnatural state for mankind.

This makes more sense. It was God's plan to have humans on earth and to grow and populate. However I have to ask, what do you believe? That there is a spirit realm where human souls go to live with Jesus for a period of time until Armageddon, afterwards earth will be restored and humans will be sent back in their fleshly bodies on a renewed earth? What happens after that? And does Hell get destroyed?

 

[All4Christ]

I meant strictly in regards to eschatology. JWs believe that the wicked will be destroyed and the righteous saved. The reward of salvation is a paradise earth and dead people who were either good or didn't get to learn about God will be resurrected, in addition to important Bible characters like Noah, Moses, Abraham, the prophets. They also teach that traditionalist Heaven and Hell do not exist. They assert that whenever Christ speaks of the kingdom of heaven, or heavenly salvation as a post-death reward, what he really meant was a paradise earth. But to add another layer of confusion, they do teach of a "different" heaven, that being one where 144,000 literal JWs who call themselves "anointed" will live in spirit with Christ for 1,000 years as judges and priests. As you may imagine there are problems with the second part of that, creating a very biased system of salvation, that being which I don't believe Christ taught.

We (Orthodox) do not agree with the JW Eschatology. There is a lot of Theology in their Eschatology that really makes no sense to me. The only element remotely similar is the earth being restored and renewed.

I can't write long now, but this may be of interest to you:

Orthodox Eschatology

 

[rnmomof7]

Heaven and hell are literal places.

Isaiah 66:1Thus says the LORD, "Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?2"For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD. "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.…



Jesus described Hell

Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50 “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Mark 9:43, 48-49 “And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire…where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.”

Matthew 22:13 “Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 8:12 “while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Scripture tells us that God prepared it

 

[7angels]

When did Heaven and Hell come into existence?

Was it God's will for humans to enter heaven or to stay on a paradise earth?

Does the devil "manage" Hell? If so, does that mean God is using the devil to punish sinful people?

If Adam and Eve said no to the snake and never ate the forbidden fruit, would there be a heaven for humans to enter?

heaven has always been around. that is where God is(i am not going to split hairs about the different levels of heaven here). hell i believe came about with the casting down of satan from heaven. yes i believe satan does run hell. even though Jesus took the keys of hell, the keys to my understanding is the authority God gave adam over the earth. but satan the authority from adam when he sinned and Jesus took that authority back from satan that he got from adam. God is not using the devil to punish sinful people. we are all heading to hell but God in His mercy and grace gave us a chance to avoid that fate of going to hell. but we need to choose salvation or hell is where you will end up. the bible tells us that God is going to remake the earth perfect like it was before the fall of adam and eve. heaven was never the spot we were to stay but it is a stop over spot for us until the earth is ready for us again.

God bless

 

[Tina W]

When did Heaven and Hell come into existence?

Was it God's will for humans to enter heaven or to stay on a paradise earth?

Does the devil "manage" Hell? If so, does that mean God is using the devil to punish sinful people?

If Adam and Eve said no to the snake and never ate the forbidden fruit, would there be a heaven for humans to enter?

I don't think anyone knows when heaven came into existence. Hell came into existence when the 1/3 of angels rebelled. I think for a time God would have wanted mankind to live in paradise on earth but who knows, some time in the future He might have planned on mankind coming to heaven or having dual citizenship in both places.

I know hell is where the devil and its followers reside so I guess you can say the devil is the ruler there, but the devil has no say of who actually ends up there, only God decides that. God is not using the devil to punish sinful people. It's just that rejection of God equals accepting the devil as your ruler, and those who reject God go to where the devil is and are under it's control.

Heaven exists for God and His angels. Heaven existed way before man was made. So yes even if Adam & Eve did not eat the fruit, there would still be a heaven. God put man on earth to rule over earth as a paradise place, but we don't know how long God intended for man to dwell on earth. Also man might have had the ability to travel between both whenever he wants. Since there would be no death without sin, there would be nothing separating heaven and earth, so humanity could probably have moved freely between both after a certain amount of time on earth.

 

[real tree]

Im not saying I agree with the man in the video, I am open to all opinions. He claims that Satan still dwells in the Heavens.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Im not saying I agree with the man in the video, I am open to all opinions. He claims that Satan still dwells in the Heavens.

I'm afraid I don't have time to watch it all.

We know that Satan in some way has access to heaven during the time after the fall - he presented himself to God and had several conversations about Job.

However, Christ also refers in past tense (iirc) to Satan being cast out. While Christ as God is not limited by time, it is reasonable to understand that Satan does not have the same kind of access that Holy Angels would have.

We are also told that Satan's general concern is with attacking and undermining mankind, and it is quite understandable that most of that activity would be related to this sphere of existence, which may include the physical earth, atmosphere, etc. but not likely heaven we envision it being the current dwelling place of God.

We also know that Satan has a particular destination, where he will be restrained, but it is not yet time.

So I would say the answer to your question depends on what you mean by "in heaven"? In the same way as God and the Holy Angels, no. Having any access whatsoever, it seems yes. I don't think we can answer more definitively than this.

 

[Ron Gurley]

op: Q1: When did "Heaven" and "Hell" come into existence?

God has no "time line". He is infinite and eternal! These two spiritual realms were created to carry out His perfect JUDGMENTS.

Hebrews 9:27
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die (Body/Soul combo) once
and after this comes judgment,(of immortal Spirits)

op: Q2: "Was it God's will for humans to enter heaven (or to stay on a paradise earth?)

False forced choice. What is " paradise earth "?? Eden?

ALL are DRAWN / CALLED by God. He wants ALL to ACCEPT Him and be saved from eternal separation.

John 6:44
No one can come to Me
unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him;
and I will raise him up on the last day.

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means:
‘I desire compassion, and not sacrifice,’
for I did not come to CALL the righteous, but sinners.”

Mark 2:17
And hearing this, Jesus said to them,
“It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick;
I did not come to CALL the righteous, but sinners.”

Matthew 22:14
For many are CALLED, but few are chosen.”

Some ACCEPT the LIGHT...the Grace...the spirit-led gifts of FAITH / BELIEF...BELIEVERS!
Some don't and reject God ...UNbelievers.

God is in Sovreign control.
If anyone truly and spiritually seeks THE God, God will save Him from eternal death and judgment.

1 Timothy 2:1-6 (NASB)...A Call to Prayer
First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of ALL men,for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
who gave Himself as a ransom for ALL, the testimony given at the proper time.

2 Peter 3: 7-9 (NASB)
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, (believers)
that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward YOU,
not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (turn to God)

1 Chronicles 28:9
“As for you, my son Solomon,
know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind;
for the Lord searches ALL hearts, and understands EVERY intent of the thoughts.
If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

Romans 4:2-3...Salvation: Not by "works"...CREDITED righteousness
For if Abraham was justified by works,
he has something to boast about,
but not before God.
For what does the Scripture say?
“Abraham believed God, and
it was credited to him as righteousness.”

God's has made clear His perfect will for mankind in the Bible. A believer must SEEK IT!

OP: Q3: Does the devil "manage" Hell? If so, does that mean God is using the devil to punish sinful people?
A3: No and No.
The devil/satan/dragon/fallen Lucifer/etc has "followers"/demons, but is powerless to change anything in the "lake of fire" nor escape therefrom.

OP: Q4: "If Adam and Eve said "no" to the snake(serpent/devil/dragon/etc) AND never ate the forbidden fruit (Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil), would there be a heaven for humans to enter?
A4: Yes. "First Disobedience" is not related to the creation of teh heavenly spiritual realm.

Bye the bye, your icon is probably wrong . The Nails were driven through the "manus" which includes the wrist. NO BONES WERE BROKEN!

 

[Uncle Mikey]

When did Heaven and Hell come into existence?

Genesis 1:1
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"

Where is Hell located? In the Earth?

Well then, there you go. They were created 'in the beginning'.

 

[Uncle Mikey]

By the way... which Hell are we talking about?

The fake one that Christians always promote, or the actual one...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

According to that verse, Hell (or more specifically the bottomless pit) is a parable for the womb.

Read it again and understand the profound implications that have been hidden from you.

 

[Adstar]

When did Heaven and Hell come into existence?

Well genisis says :::

Genesis 1: KJV
1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

So the asnwer is God created heaven in the beggining... As for Hell The Bible is not clear on that issue..

Was it God's will for humans to enter heaven or to stay on a paradise earth?

Thats a hard question to answer.. Since God has foreknowledge of all universe history and foreknew that satan would sabotarge His creation by enticing humanity to obtain the knowledge of good and evil.. It suggests that what ever happened Gods ultimate puropse would be His intention.. And so the process which leads to that ultimate intention included humanity falling from his will and becoming corrupted by the knowledge of good and evil...

Does the devil "manage" Hell? If so, does that mean God is using the devil to punish sinful people?

No the devil does not manage or rule Hell.. The devil / satan has never been in hell.. He will be cast into the eternal Lake of fire at the Last judgement..

If Adam and Eve said no to the snake and never ate the forbidden fruit, would there be a heaven for humans to enter?

God knows... Yeah really, God knows We don't..

 

[Uncle Mikey]

As for Hell The Bible is not clear on that issue...

Job 38:6
"Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof"

Is Hell not the Corner Stone of the Earth?

Thinkaboudit.

 

[gordonhooker]

By the way... which Hell are we talking about?

The fake one that Christians always promote, or the actual one...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

According to that verse, Hell (or more specifically the bottomless pit) is a parable for the womb.

Read it again and understand the profound implications that have been hidden from you.

In your post above are you implying you are not a Christian?