Question

[Vicomte13]

What I will be doing tomorrow

About what, and why?

 

[Vicomte13]

She wanted me to lie to my friend and tell him I would not be home for thanksgiving so he could not come after all. She said this because she does not like him. But she has never met or spoke to him.

Are you an adult?
Was Thanksgiving dinner at your house, something you were preparing? Or was it at your mother's house, or something she was preparing?

The facts and circumstances matter here.

 

[Vicomte13]

Are you an adult?
Was Thanksgiving dinner at your house, something you were preparing? Or was it at your mother's house, or something she was preparing?

The facts and circumstances matter here.

I've read on, and seen what you were asked to lie about, and that you are an adult and that this was in your house.

So the only question remaining is whether or not it was your mom preparing the dinner.

I ask because the facts and circumstances matter. If it is your house (not provided by her), and your meal (not being cooked by her) then your reaction can (and should) be different, and stronger, than if you're an economic dependent and/or she was preparing the dinner.

That she doesn't want his "kind" around is also an interesting comment. What "kind" is that? If she doesn't want somebody around because he's got long hair, or is the "wrong" race or religion, that's pretty bad and you have the right to speak strongly about that. If, on the other hand, the guy is a drug addict or a criminal, then her desire to not have him around - and perhaps also her motivation to want you to lie (don't enrage a criminal - he might come over and kill you).

Facts and circumstances matter. There are no absolutes in these things. The Israelites lied routinely in war with their enemies, and this was not counted against them.

 

[Beautyinsteadofashes]

Are you an adult?
Was Thanksgiving dinner at your house, something you were preparing? Or was it at your mother's house, or something she was preparing?

The facts and circumstances matter here.

I am about to be twenty nine. So yes I am an adult. I have my own family and I prepared the food in my home.

 

[Beautyinsteadofashes]

I've read on, and seen what you were asked to lie about, and that you are an adult and that this was in your house.

So the only question remaining is whether or not it was your mom preparing the dinner.

I ask because the facts and circumstances matter. If it is your house (not provided by her), and your meal (not being cooked by her) then your reaction can (and should) be different, and stronger, than if you're an economic dependent and/or she was preparing the dinner.

That she doesn't want his "kind" around is also an interesting comment. What "kind" is that? If she doesn't want somebody around because he's got long hair, or is the "wrong" race or religion, that's pretty bad and you have the right to speak strongly about that. If, on the other hand, the guy is a drug addict or a criminal, then her desire to not have him around - and perhaps also her motivation to want you to lie (don't enrage a criminal - he might come over and kill you).

Facts and circumstances matter. There are no absolutes in these things. The Israelites lied routinely in war with their enemies, and this was not counted against them.

I've read on, and seen what you were asked to lie about, and that you are an adult and that this was in your house.

So the only question remaining is whether or not it was your mom preparing the dinner.

I ask because the facts and circumstances matter. If it is your house (not provided by her), and your meal (not being cooked by her) then your reaction can (and should) be different, and stronger, than if you're an economic dependent and/or she was preparing the dinner.

That she doesn't want his "kind" around is also an interesting comment. What "kind" is that? If she doesn't want somebody around because he's got long hair, or is the "wrong" race or religion, that's pretty bad and you have the right to speak strongly about that. If, on the other hand, the guy is a drug addict or a criminal, then her desire to not have him around - and perhaps also her motivation to want you to lie (don't enrage a criminal - he might come over and kill you).

Facts and circumstances matter. There are no absolutes in these things. The Israelites lied routinely in war with their enemies, and this was not counted against them.

Its his race and sexual orientation she has a problem with.

 

[Vicomte13]

Its his race and sexual orientation she has a problem with.

Then she is wrong, and you should disregard her wishes.

 

[orlen]

The bible says to honor your mother and father. It also says thou shalt not lie. What if your mother tells you to lie?
Personally, Im not down with that. Yes, I have lied before, but that is not by any means a reason to do it again! That's just twisted logic. Well, you've done wrong in this regard before, what's once more?....ummm...no. Even if you have committed the same grievous, the same sin thousands of times you can still repent.
Edit: by the above statement I did not mean commit the same sin over and over, ask forgiveness but Not change your behavior, and do it over and over some more. True repentanence involves change.

I am a new Christian and this is the first time to ever post in a Christian forum but do know that telling a lie is bad cause God says its a sin but it never fails you have to tell several other lies to cover the initial lie. In my opinion never take the advice to tell a lie, it doesnt matter who is telling you to do this. I dont know your mom but maybe she does this as a way of getting out of things or as some sort of default knee jerk reaction. Honestly I dont know. I do know that I have told many many lies over the course of my life and have had to tell others to cover the first. A terrible way to live indeed. God's mercy is never ending. Im learning alot as a new Christian. Im so imperfect its not even funny. I guess you will just have to baby step this with your mom. All I know is, dont give up. Giving up is the worst thing anyone can do. Good luck to you. Just my opinion of course.

 

[SolomonVII]

The bible says to honor your mother and father. It also says thou shalt not lie. What if your mother tells you to lie?
Personally, Im not down with that. Yes, I have lied before, but that is not by any means a reason to do it again! That's just twisted logic. Well, you've done wrong in this regard before, what's once more?....ummm...no. Even if you have committed the same grievous, the same sin thousands of times you can still repent.
Edit: by the above statement I did not mean commit the same sin over and over, ask forgiveness but Not change your behavior, and do it over and over some more. True
repentanence involves change.

1. I am the Lord, your God.
2. Thou shall bring no false idols before me.
3. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shall not kill/murder†.
7. Thou shall not commit adultery.
8. Thou shall not steal††.
9. Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. Thou shall not covet‡ your neighbor's wife (or anything that belongs to your neighbor).

An interesting way to understand the ten commandments is to see that as written on two slates, with the top 5 being on slate 1, and the bottom 5 being on slate 2. ( It doesn't work for some lists of commandments btw including the Catholic list).

The top five are generally having to do with "as above", and the bottom 5, "as below".
So, for example the first commandment is a clear out statement in the existence of God. This corresponds to No. 6, which is the first commandment on the bottom slate. Killing your fellow human being is akin to killing God through disbelief. False idols are akin to adultery and fornicating with false wives. Taking the Lords name in vain is akin to stealing what is the Lords for your own base purposes

When it comes to the fifth, it is interesting that your mother and your father are on the "above" . At first glance, they seem to inhabit our world below with us. They are very much flesh and blood.
The key to this is to understand that, like God, our parents are our creators. They very much share that attribute with God.
So, continuing with the as above, as below correspondance, honoring your mother and father is akin to not coveting that which belongs to your neighbour. This might seem odd, but the nature of coveting is akin to something anthropologist Rene Girard calls mimetic desire. It is not just the desire to possess what they neighbour has, but in effect to be thy neighbour.
Therefore what is being rejected by coveting they neighbors wife and life is your own life, the life that your mother and father created for you.

And that is how to honor your mother and father. We do not honor our mothers and fathers by repeating their mistakes and errors and sins, but by becoming all that we can be, by expressing gratitude for the gift of life given, by fully embracing ourselves as worthy of our lives, and honoring our creating by making the most of our lives. You do not honor your mother by being her slave to do dirty work. You honor your mother by being the best person you can be.

Now when it comes to lying there are different forms of lying. Words can be used to destroy somebody else. The best liar of all is the Devil, and he lies by giving telling the truth, and giving us nothing but the facts. Truth used with intent to shatter lives and shatter people's systems of meaning and belief are not meant to be taken as the works of God. Truth was never meant to shatter people's reputations, and make them appear bad in other people's eyes.

Social relationship and conversations are not in any way easy things. We want to tell the truth, but we also do not want to tell the truth as a weapon to destroy the people that we love, bear witness in order to tarnish your mother's reputation for example.
Relationships between mothers and daughters are never easy, and this is not an easy question. What you do not want to do is to be caught in a web of lies and deceit not of your own making. What you do want to do is to refrain from using the truth to hurt the people you love, your mother included.

 

[birdetto]

The bible says to honor your mother and father. It also says thou shalt not lie. What if your mother tells you to lie?
Personally, Im not down with that. Yes, I have lied before, but that is not by any means a reason to do it again! That's just twisted logic. Well, you've done wrong in this regard before, what's once more?....ummm...no. Even if you have committed the same grievous, the same sin thousands of times you can still repent.
Edit: by the above statement I did not mean commit the same sin over and over, ask forgiveness but Not change your behavior, and do it over and over some more. True repentanence involves change.

If a person is a true believer, then God is their father. They have a spirit that cries out to him Abba, Father. Also, Jesus taught his true believers to pray: 'Our father who art in heaven'. You honor your father (one of the ten commandments) by honoring him in what you do. The Bible has an interesting thing to say about who the mother is of true believers. Galatians 4:26 says, "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." Us all in this verse means all true believers. 'The Jerusalem which is above' is just lingo for the true believers (in the kingdom of heaven if you will). We honor the kingdom of heaven's true believers by honoring the Lord in all we do. So, if a person has honored God the father, and if they have honored the people of the kingdom, they have fulfilled the commandment to honor father and mother.

 

[Monna]

An interesting way to understand the ten commandments is to see that as written on two slates, with the top 5 being on slate 1, and the bottom 5 being on slate 2. ( It doesn't work for some lists of commandments btw including the Catholic list).

An interesting post Solomon. I enjoyed it. Thanks.

 

[mina]

I read this whole thread. I guess if you are concerned about lying to a friend and lying in general; you would also be concerned about lying to your mother. And my question would be: at what point in just conceding to your mother's bad behavior and putting up with her demands does it become lying to her? You don't like the way she acts but never say anything to stop her and just let it continue.......is it just not making waves and pacifying her so she thinks it's a-ok to keep doing what she's doing? Isn't that dishonest towards her? It sounds very complicated and no doubt is when family is involved, but if you keep doing what you have always done; you will get what you have always gotten. Just a thought.

 

[Beautyinsteadofashes]

I read this whole thread. I guess if you are concerned about lying to a friend and lying in general; you would also be concerned about lying to your mother. And my question would be: at what point in just conceding to your mother's bad behavior and putting up with her demands does it become lying to her? You don't like the way she acts but never say anything to stop her and just let it continue.......is it just not making waves and pacifying her so she thinks it's a-ok to keep doing what she's doing? Isn't that dishonest towards her? It sounds very complicated and no doubt is when family is involved, but if you keep doing what you have always done; you will get what you have always gotten. Just a thought.

This is a good point. My pastor said during one sermon, the definition of insanity is doing same thing over and over expecting different results.
I just don't know what to do when she behaves/reacts like that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Ok...here is what happened. I invited a friend to Thanksgiving dinner. My mother was very unhappy about this

It doesn't matter if she knew the person or not,
if she did not want them coming over, you should just have told them straight up and leave it at that.
That would have been the only way to tell the truth AND to honor your mom AND to honor YHWH (GoD).