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Ellwood3,
re: "...the story in the Bible is about a good God, who takes on our punishment."
Exactly what punishment was taken on that would otherwise have to be taken on by us?
I do not agree with that person and the Bible does not say they were perfect. Jesus was perfect and A&E were not clones of Christ.The person below you seems to disagree and says that Adam and Eve were indeed in a perfect state.
I will address this on your other threadSo if all mature adults will sin like you said, what prevents us from not being able to sin in heaven? Adam and Eve were with God and they still sinned, so even if we are with God in heaven, what will prevent us from doing it all over again?
Alex, what is your reason to stop talking to me?
Because I've realized I'm not getting any help here in the wide variety of differing opinions in this thread. Everyone has their own take on this and no one can provide me with a reasonable answer to my question.
I have some other threads you can comment on though. Just as interesting.
Everyone has opinions, but not every opinion is equal. Some opinions are right and some opinions are wrong. You can see that your problem is based on a belief that I have not accepted, and I have asked you to show me why you think it is a valid belief. I just wondered why you did not reply to that, and I also wondered if it is a question you have not asked. I have had a suspicion that by questioning the validity of your belief then your whole OP becomes nullified, and I have also wondered whether this might be preventing you from questioning the belief. I could be wrong in this suspicion of course, but I won't know unless I ask you.
From #51: What reason do you have to think that we are to be held accountable for someone else's sin?What questions would you specifically like me to answer?
No I don't. Perfect is to have no fault, which is not consisent with the story. It doesn't make sense either, because perfect is to be complete, but they were obviously lacking something and when they became aware of it they desired it. Therefore I don't think perfection really applies to anything that begins and grows.Do you believe Adam and Eve were created perfect?
This doesn't make sense to me because I suppose instead that God is perfect (ie, without fault). If you use the word 'desire' instead of 'plan', I would be more willing to agree.If so, you should have no problem accepting that the life you are living now is not the life God planned for you to have.
Pretty much, yes. Otherwise you wouldn't have the complaint you do have - being apart from God. It doesn't have to be that way. It is that way because you choose to make it that way.I am supposed to willingly accept that my life God destined me to have was drastically altered by the reckless actions of two individuals, who for some apparent reason, thought that the paradise God gave them wasn't enough, so they screwed it up for everyone else. You could claim that if I were in their position I would do the same, but how would you know that? Were you and I given the same opportunity?
What causes something to be deemed 'sin'? If you understand that and why we do it, then you will have your answer.My whole question revolves around why this is, and is this fair? Why am I where I am today and how can God justify putting billions in the same group called "sinners" when only two really deserve to be there.
You are right about that. Even if you weren't in a world enslaved by sin, you would not be there because of some action you took.I believe in action and consequence. And so far, I see no action on my part to be in a world where I am enslaved to sin.
What do you base this belief on? I showed you scripture that states otherwise, can you provide scripture too?Angels did not have to deal with the actions of Satan.
You don't. They aren't here. What you do have to deal with are the actions of your fellow man, and they have to deal with your actions too.So why should I have to deal with the actions of Adam and Eve?
I don't know enough about it to make those assumptions. How come you do?Sure you can claim angels are a whole other set of creation that follow a whole other set of rules. But really we are just like them.
Again, this is something I don't know. I don't know if angels are still being created, and if they are then you are not correct. I don't know where you got your information about angelology, can you tell me?We have a beginning just like them. The only difference is that their beginning wasn't tampered with like mine was.
I am pretty sure Alex thinks that his sin is inherited from Adam and Eve's sin, and that if Adam and Eve had not sinned in the first place then he would not have sinned either. I am not sure that idea is true.You are asking how you can believe in a God who seems so unfair to you that you were given the consequences of someone elses sins.
They went against God by their own decision not by Satan's. How is it fair that all other humans should be involved in the consequence of Adam/Eve's decision?One third of the angels in heaven fell with Satan, because they went against God together with him:
"His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. [...]" (Revelation 12:4 NKJV)
This is not literal, but it refers to the fall of Satan and a third of the angels in heaven.
Jesus said: "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matthew 25:41 NKJV)
Another verse, in Jude:
"And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;" (Jude 1:6)
I am pretty sure Alex thinks that his sin is inherited from Adam and Eve's sin, and that if Adam and Eve had not sinned in the first place then he would not have sinned either. I am not sure that idea is true.
They went against God by their own decision not by Satan's. How is it fair that all other humans should be involved in the consequence of Adam/Eve's decision?
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