Question on the Statement of Faith for OBOB

[Michie]

Because the rules need to reflect the practice. And either people want a strict interpretation as written and enforced or they want the slight change to reflect what they are currently allowing 90% of the time.

When someone gets a violation for supporting Catholic Dogma they should appeal. If the warning was for how they did it...that is one thing. If they flamed while defending it.

But if they get a warning they feel is wrong..appeal it.

This thread is because we have the strict enforcement of how it is written and how the community has allowed it to function. For the sake of consistency they need to pick one.

Because it is a safe haven, opposing Dogma will never be on the table.

People are already getting away with debating dogma here & belittling the faith. Under this rules you are just giving more opportunity to just lay a subject out there for debate with no mention of Catholic belief & debate abortion, homosexuality, etc. If there is no mention of faith then it's all open for debate.

Just sowing more seeds of confusion imo.

CF has a political forum & fellowship forums already.

Why not just open up the whole board then? All the forums?

Fellowship is already here. Has been. If someone wants to debate secular issues there are forums for that without the RCC weighing you down.

Why here?

 

[Michie]

Let's go weird.

If I'm browsing through threads, and someone posts "I don't think we should help the poor", if they are Catholic I could not disagree with them currently. Now, helping the poor is obviously a Catholic virtue and it is shared with my faith as well. But I couldn't disagree or even point out that they are not within Church teaching to say so.

To give another example. What if a Catholic were to post that "even Judaism embraces Jesus as a prophet"? Under current rules, I would not be allowed to correct that notion. I know the Church doesn't teach that Judaism believes Jesus is a prophet, but I would have to be silent.

These are just examples of things I couldn't say even if I were in fellowship because it would be disagreeing and disagreeing seems to be the same as debate.

I guess I've always took it for granted that people of other faiths were allowed to fellowship & correct facts concerning their faith.

I've said before that I thought protestants should be allowed to participate in Scripture discussion, fellowship, etc. As long as the Catholic faith was not debated or twisted into something it isn't. I've always found your posts honest. I have no issue with that. I do have issues when things become disingenuous. And that abounds with some here.

 

[LoAmmi]

Michie,
Under a strict understanding of the rules, I couldn't correct something a Catholic said about me.

 

[Michie]

Michie,
Under a strict understanding of the rules, I couldn't correct something a Catholic said about me.

Ok... I understand. And that is not fair.

Do other faith forums allow this as well? For some to come in & correct error concerning their faith? Because if they don't...they should.

Vote forthcoming. With reservations.

 

[AMDG]

Michie,
Under a strict understanding of the rules, I couldn't correct something a Catholic said about me.

I can't help it--You planning on saying something wrong?

 

[LoAmmi]

I can't help it--You planning on saying something wrong?

I was under the impression I never said anything right.

 

[Davidnic]

Ok... I understand. And that is not fair.

Do other faith forums allow this as well? For some to come in & correct error concerning their faith? Because if they don't...they should.

Vote forthcoming. With reservations.

Not many allow it by the strict view of the rules; some allow it by just not reporting it. Each community can adjust their debate rules to an extent as long as it remain as safe haven where the beliefs of their group are not challenged. They can let people correct misapprehensions. They can have a subforum for full fledged respectful debate (TAW has one). Or they can limit participation to light fellowship and nothing else.

To a degree the community sets the standards. But they can not make it so the main tenants of their beliefs can be challenged or it would not be a congregational safe haven.

 

[Michie]

Not many allow it by the strict view of the rules; some allow it by just not reporting it. Each community can adjust their debate rules to an extent as long as it remain as safe haven where the beliefs of their group are not challenged. They can let people correct misapprehensions. They can have a subforum for full fledged respectful debate (TAW has one). Or they can limit participation to light fellowship and nothing else.

To a degree the community sets the standards. But they can not make it so the main tenants of their beliefs can be challenged or it would not be a congregational safe haven.

It should be interesting.

 

[Ave Maria]

Personally, I would rather it not be changed at all but it doesn't appear that my position is winning. All well, the majority decides.

 

[Rhamiel]

Did you miss the part about her posts being reinstated? That is evidence indicating that the content was not the problem, the lack of an icon was.

it is not lack of an icon
it is the fact that she is not a member of the Catholic Church

 

[MikeK]

it is not lack of an icon
it is the fact that she is not a member of the Catholic Church

Oh but she is, unless she's made a formal act of defection. Learn what your Church teaches. Please do not preach error here.

 

[Rhamiel]

Oh but she is, unless she's made a formal act of defection. Learn what your Church teaches. Please do not preach error here.

she does not self identify as a Catholic
she left the Church
you do not need to make a formal act to stop being Catholic
you just stop being Catholic
it breaks my heart and I know she is a really smart and wonderful person
but I am not going to sugar coat things or twist words

 

[Davidnic]

Do you think she should be reported and warned for defending the Church's position on Abortion? Because that is the kind of thing that happens.

This would not effect debates on Dogma..those are not and will never be allowed. But I have a serious moral problem with anyone getting in trouble for defending Catholic principles in OBOB.

 

[tadoflamb]

One of the strengths of OBOB is the number of non-Catholic posters who frequent our forum. They add to the diversity and to the feel of the place while respecting Catholic beliefs. I think they should be allowed the same privilege allowed to us Catholics and be able to form and express opinions on matters which are non-binding by the Church.

It would be a shame to lose any one poster on account of going by the letter of the law. Difference of opinions, I always found, can be a good thing, and I enjoy hearing other people's thoughts. I say, we should lighten up a bit and embrace the spirit of the rule just has we have done for years.

 

[Rhamiel]

Do you think she should be reported and warned for defending the Church's position on Abortion? Because that is the kind of thing that happens.

This would not effect debates on Dogma..those are not and will never be allowed. But I have a serious moral problem with anyone getting in trouble for defending Catholic principles in OBOB.

i would not report someone for defending the teachings of the Catholic Church

and like i said, i do not report someone if they have a history with this forum, i only report people if they are being trolls

but maybe not anymore, if a non-catholic argues agianst what the Church teaches then i am just going to report them

 

[Rhamiel]

what about stuff like Limbo or if Priestly Celibacy is a good idea?
neither one of these are doctrines
and Catholics do not have to agree with them
under the new rules can non-catholics debate these things?

 

[AMDG]

what about stuff like Limbo or if Priestly Celibacy is a good idea?
neither one of these are doctrines
and Catholics do not have to agree with them
under the new rules can non-catholics debate these things?

Oh good Lord, I certainly hope that we won't have that--its so very pointless, but I can easily imagine it could happen especially with folks who are not so sure what the Church teaches and don't like that she has any authority in the first place.

 

[Davidnic]

what about stuff like Limbo or if Priestly Celibacy is a good idea?
neither one of these are doctrines
and Catholics do not have to agree with them
under the new rules can non-catholics debate these things?

Limbo is a matter of free opinion for Catholics. Priestly celibacy is not dogma but it is the current practice.

In that manner they could discuss it but could not attack the Catholic option to believe in it as something wrong, against God ect.... In short they could not make the normal non-Catholic arguments about why Catholics are wrong to believe such things; because those arguments actually attack Catholic belief as basically not Christian.

An example...if in the discussion of Limbo someone Catholic opposed it and made a thread there was a discussion and non-Catholics joined in...they could not say of a Vatican statement on the matter that it carried no weight because the Pope had no authority.

Or if in the celibacy issue a Catholic cited ECF's and the reply was only Scripture had authority...that would be promoting Scripture alone and we do not believe that.

 

[Davidnic]

i would not report someone for defending the teachings of the Catholic Church

and like i said, i do not report someone if they have a history with this forum, i only report people if they are being trolls

but maybe not anymore, if a non-catholic argues agianst what the Church teaches then i am just going to report them

Not saying you would. But it happens. And in a strict view of the rule as written..they would be in violation.

 

[MikeK]

she does not self identify as a Catholic
she left the Church
you do not need to make a formal act to stop being Catholic
you just stop being Catholic

The Church recognizes her as every bit as Catholic as you are. She can say she isn't Catholic. You can say she isn't Catholic. The Church says she's Catholic. I trust the Church.

it breaks my heart and I know she is a really smart and wonderful person
but I am not going to sugar coat things or twist words

I don't ask you to sugarcoat, I ask you to learn what the Church teaches about persons Baptized Catholic, that you may stop preaching error about Christ's Church. Simply not believing, or not attending services any longer does not make someone less of a Catholic. Even formal excommunication doesn't make someone not Catholic. It makes them a bad Catholic perhaps, and likely a non-practicing Catholic, but still, a Catholic.