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Question on the Statement of Faith for OBOB

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Davidnic, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. No, no change at all.

  2. Yes, change it for both the general area and political subforum

  3. Change it for just the general area

  4. Change it for just the Political Subforum

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  1. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Right now, as written non-Catholics can fellowship but they can not debate any issue in OBOB; even if it not opposing dogma or teaching. That is as written.

    In practice the members have let many people debate issues that are not dogma or teaching. Some of these threads have gone on hundreds of posts and no reports. No problems.

    Then at other times someone beats someone in an argument and blam...report because they are non-Catholic. Or someone just does not like someone and reports them while have no trouble with other non-Catholics doing the same thing. At times non-Catholics are even being given warnings for defending the Catholic faith from the Catholics who are opposing it.

    So I have a poll, do you want to make the SOP fit the practice and non-Catholics can engage in some debate here as long as it does not oppose dogma or teaching. Or do you want strict enforcement of no debate on anything only fellowship.

    If you want to loosen it...do you want it for the main area and the political area or just the political area.

    Because it can not continue in inconsistency and spite being how it is decided who is given what privilege and not.

    Remember this is not about dogma and teaching. People can not in any way oppose what is proclaimed by the Magisterium or mock Catholicism. And Abortion can never be promoted.

    This concerns debating issues that are not Teaching.

    So only Catholics vote in the poll. Do not make the thread a battle ground. Vote. If you want to...post stating your opinion.

    But currently it is more of a who we like and who we don't to report them and that is not going to continue. Either you allow respectful debate on issues of non-Dogma and Teaching or we do not. We do not allow it for some and not for others.

    the change would read (highlighted):

    if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues that are Dogma or Authoritatively taught by the Magisterium or teach against Catholic theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.
    It currently reads:

    if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.
     
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  2. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    I've no problem with loosening it up, personally...:)
     
  3. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Then be sure to vote. when the poll closes I will count up all the eligible votes.

    No matter what is decided...my main concern is we can not let some people that are "liked" debate and some who are "not" get reported. Or let people do it until they make a point and then report them.

    That's not fair and that is what brought this on.
     
  4. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    I support this change. While this must be a safe haven for Catholics to discuss Catholic beliefs without debate, there is no reason that we must prevent Orthodox people from engaging in a discussion on which Zeppelin album was best. On discussions of matters tangential or unrelated to the Church, the more contributers we get the merrier:)
     
  5. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You are allowed to vote for multiple options by the way. That way I get a sense of the overall spectrum.
     
  6. John the Roman

    John the Roman Newbie

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    I think we should have a forum like the Orthodox do named after an influential Western Saint where you can debate a Catholic.

    The only thing is that, though the Orthodox are occasionally attacked, we are targeted wayyyyy more so it could end up becoming a section where every fundamentalist could post what they h8 about us.
     
  7. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    To be clear, this poll is not about debating Catholic beliefs. No position in this poll advocates for that.
     
  8. John the Roman

    John the Roman Newbie

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    Oops. I'll study the post a bit more.
     
  9. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    I like the rules the way they are
    you can fellowship and you can ask questions if you are not a Catholic
    you can not debate
    I do not come here to have Protestants tell me I do not understand anything
     
  10. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    I don't think you read the OP as carefully as you should have. The proposed revision would allow anyone to post in a "which recipe is best?" thread, but restrict matters of faith to Catholics only.
     
  11. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    Please delete this post if I am not allowed to post in this thread, but I wanted to give an outsiders perspective:

    Like MikeK said, right now if I post in fellowship, but contradict what someone says in any way at all, I can be flagged. For example, if I say the best football team is the Ravens, and someone else has said the best football team is the Jets and they are Catholic, by the current rules I am in violation.

    I have also been told that if someone posts something and I agree with it in a fellowship post but they are in a discussion with another Catholic who disagrees with their position, I am again in violation for debating the second Catholic by proxy.

    I would never want to come here and say any Catholic teaching is wrong. But it is hard to know what is considered debate and what is considered fellowship.
     
  12. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You can post, just not vote. A respectful outside perspective is welcomed.
     
  13. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    ...for now....as long as it isn't advocating that yellow is the best color when a Catholic has already stated that blue is.
     
  14. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    The real trick seems to be the language used.

    "I believe yellow is the best color" is not contradicting anybody. Well... unless you said that you believed that I believed green is the best color.

    You know, under the current rules it would be incredibly simple to silence a non-Catholic you didn't like.
     
  15. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    My problem is, it gets to where non-Catholics are reported for actually stating the proper Church teaching on Abortion when a Catholic is wrong the non-Catholic gets reported.

    And that people are being allowed to debate non-Dogma and such until someone decides they can not...by their own definition. Which is usually..."I did not like the answer or the person"

    The number of reports rise and fall. But it recently came up and I thought it was time to ask the community what they thought. They all seem fine allowing discussion and debate until they are not. And that is not consistent.

    So either none.
    Or allowed on issues that do not oppose dogma or Catholic teaching.

    Debate of the Catholic faith would never be allowed. Opposition to authoritative teaching would not be allowed.

    And no one would be in violation for actually defending Catholic teaching...Catholic poster or not.
     
  16. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    that would fall under fellowship
    but they come in here and debate about political things too
    they sneak around the no debate rules by arguing with Catholics over social issues
    we have enough trouble with trolls as it is
    making the rules more lax would just encourage them
     
  17. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

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    I do not want to see decent people who do not have the Catholic cross excluded from discussions and debates on general issues. Nor do I want to see anybody excluded from discussions or even debates about church teaching as long as their contributions are not attempts to tear down what the church teaches. It would be a shame to lose people like LoAmmi and Antigone; they are positive contributors who benefit us all.
     
  18. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    I do not want a Baptist to come in here and make threads telling us what we should do

    this is a Catholic subforum
     
  19. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    Err--just because no problems have been reported, that doesn't mean that problems don't exist. It just means that there are folks who don't report. They simply shake their heads and say "I didn't think we were allowed." They may even check with other members and ask "Have the rules changed? What's happening?"
     
  20. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

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    If the Baptist comes to tell us what he/she thinks that's okay, as long as they aren't telling us that we're all hell bound because we are Catholics and stuff like that. Nobody wants trolls coming in and making a fuss or causing a fight or trying to make some huge debate out of nothing.
     
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