Question on binding and loosing

[ralliann]

Do the Orthodox believe they have the power to bind and loose?

 

[All4Christ]

Yes. Note though that the theology of confession has some differences than some other churches that agree with binding and loosing of priests and bishops. (I won’t speak for them, but I can share some of what we believe.)

We do hold to the power of binding and loosing (absolution) - but we believe that the power for the sacrament of confession and absolution is the power of God, not of man.

Our confession starts with us kneeling in front of an icon of Christ, as confess to Christ, with the priest witnessing it. The priest prays the prayers below after the confession.

My spiritual child, N., who have confessed to my humble person, I, humble and a sinner, have not power on earth to forgive sins, but God alone; but through that divinely spoken word which came to the Apostles after the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, saying, Whosesoever sins you forgive are forgiven, and whosesoever sins you retain are retained, we are emboldened to say: Whatsoever you have said to my humble person, and whatsoever you have failed yo say, whether through ignorance or forgetfulness, whatever it may be, may God forgive you in this world and in that which is to come.

May God Who pardoned David through Nathan the Prophet when he confessed his sins, and Peter weeping bitterly for his denial, and the sinful woman weeping at His feet, and the publican and the prodigal son; May that same God forgive you all things, through me a sinner, both in this world and in the world to come, and set you uncondemned before His terrible Judgment Seat. (In the name + of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.) Have no further care for the sins which you have confessed, depart in peace.

 

[ralliann]

Yes. Note though that the theology of confession has some differences than some other churches that agree with binding and loosing of priests and bishops. (I won’t speak for them, but I can share some of what we believe.)

We do hold to the power of binding and loosing (absolution) - but we believe that the power for the sacrament of confession and absolution is the power of God, not of man.

Our confession starts with us kneeling in front of an icon of Christ, as confess to Christ, with the priest witnessing it. The priest prays the prayers below after the confession.

Thank you so much. I asked here because I know you have fr. Matt here. I love that this particular forum has someone to add if he desires, or correct that has an office of authority. So, I know he is watching over your answers. So I do so appreciate your response. Iam asking this for a specific reason. But I dislike thinking I may have some insight into something without someone affirming or correcting with some authority.

 

[All4Christ]

Thank you so much. I asked here because I know you have fr. Matt here. I love that this particular forum has someone to add if he desires, or correct that has an office of authority. So, I know he is watching over your answers. So I do so appreciate your response. Iam asking this for a specific reason. But I dislike thinking I may have some insight into something without someone affirming or correcting with some authority.

Ok. Feel free to disregard my response then. Maybe next time ask specifically for his response so that we don’t take time to gather the information and respond.

The quote directly from the rite of confession may be useful either way since it is directly from official Orthodox prayers, not my own writing.

 

[ralliann]

Ok. Feel free to disregard my response then. Maybe next time ask specifically for his response so that we don’t take time to gather the information and respond.

I did not mean to offend, I was indeed looking for any of you to answer the basic question. I just am saying why I asked here. It is not like the other forums where people just answer without anyone of Authority to see their answer. I absolutely accept your answer and appreciate it I am so sorry it sounded bad. And looking at what I wrote it did. I am sorry your time was not wasted.
So I will ask you, but I don't know if you will be able to answer me on this question. Would love it if you could.
Is binding and loosing given to Peter as an apostle (and priest) to the Jews at all connected to the oath israel entered into before God, concerning the covenant made at moab which contained curses if they did not keep that oath which oath binds the soul?

 

[ralliann]

I did edit and add to my post since you read it I believe. So I asked you the question. Thank you so much for taking the time. I just don't think or didnt think you could answer it is all.

 

[All4Christ]

I did not mean to offend, I was indeed looking for any of you to answer the basic question. I just am saying why I asked here. It is not like the other forums where people just answer without anyone of Authority to see their answer. I absolutely accept your answer and appreciate it I am so sorry it sounded bad. And looking at what I wrote it did. I am sorry your time was not wasted.
So I will ask you, but I don't know if you will be able to answer me on this question. Would love it if you could.
Is binding and loosing given to Peter as an apostle (and priest) at all connected to the oath israel entered into before God, concerning the covenant made at moab which contained curses if they did not keep that oath which oath binds the soul?

Thank you for explaining. I agree that it is extremely helpful to not just have individual opinions about things without some form of authority. I just took your post to mean something different.

Even beyond having a priest here, it is important for us always reference Orthodox sources, and not just say what our interpretation is. It looks like I missed doing that in my first post, so I will add those references in as well in case you are interested in other official Orthodox responses in addition to Fr Matt.

 

[All4Christ]

I did edit and add to my post since you read it I believe. So I asked you the question. Thank you so much for taking the time. I just don't think or didnt think you could answer it is all.

Just saw this after my response…I’ll take a look at the updated post.

 

[ralliann]

Thank you for explaining. I agree that it is extremely helpful to not just have individual opinions about things without some form of authority. I just took your post to mean something different.

Even beyond having a priest here, it is important for us always reference Orthodox sources, and not just say what our interpretation is. It looks like I missed doing that in my first post, so I will add those references in as well in case you are interested in other official Orthodox responses in addition to Fr Matt.

Well what I am hoping from him to consider these things to understand things said about many things in scripture are good, bad, indifferent. Like...nah don't even go ther, and why that kinda stuff.
I am also searching where to find an authority over me to attend in community, so it's personal as well as important to me. I do see that aspect in scripture.

 

[All4Christ]

I did not mean to offend, I was indeed looking for any of you to answer the basic question. I just am saying why I asked here. It is not like the other forums where people just answer without anyone of Authority to see their answer. I absolutely accept your answer and appreciate it I am so sorry it sounded bad. And looking at what I wrote it did. I am sorry your time was not wasted.
So I will ask you, but I don't know if you will be able to answer me on this question. Would love it if you could.
Is binding and loosing given to Peter as an apostle (and priest) to the Jews at all connected to the oath israel entered into before God, concerning the covenant made at moab which contained curses if they did not keep that oath which oath binds the soul?

I am not aware of any specific connection discussed in commentaries from the Church Fathers or official Orthodox teachings specifically about binding and loosing in connection with the curse when the covenant oath is broken, as described in Deuteronomy.

However, there are some prophecies in that chapter - specifically the passage “I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him (Deuteronomy
18)”. It points to Christ’s coming and fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 16 on the Gospel of John (Chrysostom) - See John 1:21. That said, it isn’t related to Peter, the Keys of Heaven and binding and loosing of sins. The only place I have seen the connection you referenced is in a Protestant commentary (I do not remember the exact commentary).

All this said, I am just noting that I have not seen this interpretation either in teachings from my priest or the many commentaries of the Church Fathers. Fr Matt and our other priests here could confirm or correct this.

 

[ralliann]

I am not aware of any specific connection discussed in commentaries from the Church Fathers or official Orthodox teachings specifically about binding and loosing in connection with the curse when the covenant oath is broken, as described in Deuteronomy.

However, there are some prophecies related to the passage “I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him (Deuteronomy
18)”. It points to Christ’s coming and fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 16 on the Gospel of John (Chrysostom) - See John 1:21. That said, it isn’t related to Peter, the Keys of Heaven and binding and loosing of sins. The only place I have seen the connection you referenced is in a Protestant commentary (I do not remember the exact commentary).

All this said, I am just noting that I have not seen this interpretation either in teachings from my priest or the many commentaries of the Church Fathers. Fr Matt and our other priests could confirm or correct this.

Ok, thank you. I am looking at a couple of things with regards to this. Being locked up under the law till the seed should come. Locked up prison is a term used for binding of an oath in Hebrew scripture. Also the collective nature of Sin in Judaism.

Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day: {enter: Heb. pass }
13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:

The oath to all the law...
Ga 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Deut 31:12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
De 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
De 32:46 And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Do the Orthodox believe they have the power to bind and loose?

the bishops do and the priests do by the authority of the bishop.

 

[ralliann]

the bishops do and the priests do by the authority of the bishop.

I am sorry if this is a dumb question. And thank you for answering.
Does that include loosing from the oath made at moab for a Jew?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am sorry if this is a dumb question. And thank you for answering.
Does that include loosing from the oath made at moab for a Jew?

nope