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Question for Seventh Day Adventist members

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by The Liturgist, Feb 8, 2021.

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  1. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    We get our scripture from the Bible. Even Ellen White tells us everything, including her writings must be tested by scriptures. That is what matters. God bless
     
  2. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    Some of the things she's written can't be tested by scriptures because they're extra-Biblical, such as Adam's height. Would I be correct in believing that you're taught her writings are never wrong?
     
  3. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    I’m more concerned with Biblical scripture and getting that right above all else. My church focuses on the Bible. Ellen White is not a substitute for the Bible and her focus was also on the Word of God. Her book Steps to Christ has brought many to find Jesus. If you’re asking me if Ellen White has ever made a mistake, I am sure she has made plenty, she was a human. Were the visions she received from God, I think so. Her writings started at 17 years old and were well advanced for her age. Many non-SDA churches quote her and what she accomplished was amazing. She has a great love for our God, but in our church, like I said, we focus on scriptures and making sure we are following God’s Word. Hopefully we will find out in Heaven soon, if she is right about Adams height.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I disagree with your teachings. God does not change his mind. Prophets (both men and woman) being messengers of God have messages for all of God's people as shown through the scriptures already. Paul's later message was a general injunction in regards to woman teaching in the Church not women who are prophets required to give a message from God to Gods' people which is the work of a prophet. Your teaching disagrees with scripture here.
    I am sorry I have no interest in this section of your post as it is not biblical and does not apply to prophets.
    Your response...
    Sorry but what is posted to you is not false at all it is Gods' Word and God's Word is true according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4. If you read what was posted it is not saying that these woman in Revelation 2:18-29 are true prophets. It was stating that they were false prophets. The example was quoted to show that the woman is clearly a leader in the church of Thyatira because she was having influence in leading people with her teachings away from God and His Word. What was posted never once said that this women was a genuine prophet. Perhaps you had a misunderstanding of what was written to you and why.
    A prophets authority comes directly from God who has assigned His prophets to speak His Word. There is no contradiction of the scriptures here perhaps it is in your understanding of them. If God gives a prophet a message and tells them to speak His Word to the people and the Church leadership tells the prophet not to speak God's Word who should the prophet obey God or man? (Acts of the Apostles 5:29; see also Isaiah and Jeremiah). According to the scriptures nothing has changed today when Jesus says you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent to you, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not!
    Once again I ask you why would a prophets coming need to be foretold in the bible? Were all prophets foretold in the bible? If so how could the first prophet foretell himself. This part of your argument here is not biblical and does not make any sense. Does Gods' Word from the prophets of the bible hold more influence to Gods' people that believe and follow Gods' Word who Jesus say are his sheep in John 10:26-27? According to the scriptures God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow because they are not His sheep.
    This is your opinion and of course you are free to believe as you wish. There are many versions of history written in bias that we can also choose to believe or not believe. All your really saying here is I am right and you are wrong. Sorry but I do not believe you. Where have I or any SDA ever said to you to believe the writings of EGW over the bible? If no one has ever said these things to you why pretend that we take the writings of EGW over the bible when all she ever does is point people to the bible as the Word of God? Yet you want to talk EGW and not the bible? This is telling to me.
    If you choose to believe that Gods' Word is fallible that is up to you. What you choose to believe or not believe is up to you. I do not judge you. For me all the EGW writings have done is to point me to the Word of God and it is in the Word of God I stay and abide. Yet many do not want to discuss the scriptures seeking instead to discuss anything outside of the scriptures. We should not be afraid to come to the light of Gods' Word as it is written; this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved, but he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God (John 3:19-21). If what we believe is true we walk in the light as he is in the light. If what we believe is not true we walk in darkness and do not know where we are going (John 12:25) Those who follow Gods' Word do not walk in darkness but the light the lights the whole world but it is written many love darkness rather than light because they deeds are evil so they will not come to the light (the Word).

    For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. These of course are God's Word not my words. Do you know what they mean?

    Hope this is helpful
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I was applying the same question of the OP to the reasoning of your first post to prophets. Did you not pick that up?
     
  6. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I didn't. Were you comparing Ellen White with Isaiah?
     
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Just a general statement to prophets. If you look at the OP's question you can apply it to any one who is a prophet in the bible. I just used Isaiah as an example. God has always sent prophets to His Church and the Church has always sort to kill and reject the most of them. Do we believe some of God's Word or all of God's Word? That is the question.
     
  8. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    My question to you is whether you believe Ellen White's writings are infallible. That was the original subject of this thread and it's what I'm interested in learning.
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Do I believe any human being is infallible? No. Do I believe EGW had a message for Gods' end day people? Yes absolutely. Of all her writings I have read for me was the same message over and over. Prepare to meet thy God; Jesus is coming, pointing all to the bible over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. She pointed me to the bible and told me to stay there and that is my position to this day because it is only in God's Word that we see and know Jesus.

    Hope this is helpful.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  10. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    It’s not an opinion - EGW’s historical narrative clashed with facts about church history known during her lifetime, and facts about church history discovered more recently. And of her prophecies of future events, that were supposed to be immediately impending, they haven’t happened, and what Hegel calls the “arrow of History” is pointed the other way in many cases, with unpopular “blue laws” restricting retail hours or the sale of alcoholic beverages on Sunday, increasingly unpopular, with several states and the District of Columbia repealing them in the past decade.

    Thus, since her prophecy contains provable errors, especially with regards to the events and chronology of Christian history (and the way the early church actually worked before the Roman Catholic Church developed the doctrine of Papal Supremacy and excommunicated the Orthodox, which is to say, in a conciliar manner that makes her descriptions of 6th century Popes entirely anachronistic), and the criterion for the authenticity of a prophet is complete accuracy of all prophecies, we can say that Ellen G White is not a genuine prophet inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    And even if she were, Saint Paul makes no distinction between those women inspired by prophecy and those with other charisms (both of which were very common in the Apostolic Church and are very rare in our contemporary secular culture, which glamorizes evil and mocks piety (with regards to the evil nature of abortion and homosexuality, I assume on that point Adventists have no disagreement with me).
     
  11. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    If you are asking the reason why I posted this thread, i assumed Adventists related to Ellen White in the same way Lutherans relate to Martin Luther, Presbyterians to John Calvin and John Knox, Anglicans to Thomas Cranmer, and Methodists to John Wesley, and that of her writings, there would be some that members would find more edifying, and others that they did not like as much, for whatever reason.
     
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I disagree. This is indeed your opinion. There is many versions of historical narratives as there are interpretations of the scriptures. What hasn't happened? Why would you also think if something has not happened yet it is not going to happen or it is not true? Is the bible not true because Jesus has not returned yet?
    There is no "thus" as shown above you have started with a faulty premise. What provable errors in regards to the history of the christian Church? You have posted nothing that support your view here accept to provide your opinion that is not scripture.
    Sorry but I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures here. God does not teach that because a woman is a prophet she is not to give his Word to his people. That teaching in my view is not biblical and is in contradiction to what a prophet (נביא or προφήτης messenger from God) is required to do. We should be careful not to reject Gods' Word and His prophets by doing so we reject God and His Word (Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Romans 3:4).

    Hope this is helpful.
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    My answer was provided earlier here
     
  14. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your reply.
     
  15. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    Or rather, her interpretations of the commandments of God. And why does she outrank Paul? The Apostle Paul clearly said women cannot teach or exercise authority. 1 Timothy is inspired scripture. Why do Adventists ignore it while prioritizing the fourth commandment, which might not even be binding on non-Jews (the Jews regard the Noachide Laws as the divine legislation for gentiles, and the Torah as the equivalent for Jewish people, a position reflected in the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, which is more or less the same as the Noachide Laws the Talmudic sages extracted from Genesis.
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Let's talk scripture please. The bible does not teach women prophets cannot speak Gods' Word. Therefore I do not agree in regards to your interpretation of 1 Timothy. According to the new covenant scriptures a Jew is not one outwardly but neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *Romans 2:29-29. God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are not those who are born of the flesh but all those who through faith are born of the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL through believing and following Gods' Word then you have no part in Gods new covenant promise which is to all those who believe *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Acts 15 was never over the question "are the 10 commandments a requirement for christian living?" The question being considered here was "Is circumcision a requirement for salvation"? *Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 and it was this question Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to consider. Your interpretation of Acts of the Apostles 15 has Paul in contradiction with Paul when he says sometime latter after the Jerusalem meting to the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthians 7:19 [19], Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Hope this is helpful.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  17. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    I am talking scripture. Did you not see the references? At any rate, in response to this:
    • The Word of God is Jesus Christ (John 1)
    • In 1 Corinthians and 1 Peter, Paul does not distinguish between women with the gift of prophecy and without the gift of prophecy.
    • It does not matter, because Ellen White made errors in her works, which means she is an interesting theologian but not an inspired prophet.
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry I do not agree with your teachings and claims here and neither do I believe they are biblical, for the reasons already outlined from the scriptures in the previous posts already we will of course agree to disagree.
     
  19. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Hello, sometimes someone have to understand scriptures in order to give credits to someone who teach or preach the Word...

    I don't know who has the spiritual knowledge or authority to say E G White has the truth to teach the Word...Maybe only her congregation..

    "God has given us the Spirit of Truth to teach us into All Truth..."

    Also, there false teachers and false prophets has gone out to the world, teaching things they ought not qualify to teach and as a result they deceive many...

    ...."A tiny yeast leavens the whole batch"...
     
  20. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Hello LGW, so you are teacher of the Word? You think you alone is Right?
     
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