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That is not true. Jesus knows who are His own.
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The implication is that them who are not looking for the rapture, will not be taken.
What is the Second coming?I totally disagree. That is the second coming. Look at Revelation 7. "those who come out of the Great Tribulation". Those are Christians who went into the GT as nominal Christians and had to give their lives as martyrs to stand up and be counted.
You make the decision whether you will be taken or not, according to what you believe and confess with your mouth. You cannot discourage others from looking for Jesus to rapture them, at anytime, and expect to be taken.That is not true. Jesus knows who are His own.
Sounds like the makings of a good thread.............Douggg said: ↑
The implication is that them who are not looking for the rapture, will not be taken.
What is the Second coming?
Them in Revelation 7 are them who die during the great tribulation. Their souls are in heaven.
If you want to say that that they include Christians who refused to look for Jesus to be taken in the rapture, and end up going into the great tribulation and are martyred, I can agree to that. But that great multitude includes them who become Christians after the rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:13-18 will have taken place, but end up being martyred.
You can not look for Jesus coming for the rapture - until after the great tribulation begins if you want, but I think it is a big mistake.
You make the decision whether you will be taken or not, according to what you believe and confess with your mouth. You cannot discourage others from looking for Jesus to rapture them, at anytime, and expect to be taken.
I believe the rapture could take place anytime, but it has to take place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord takes place slightly before the great tribulation begins.But don't you believe the "rapture" is before the Great Tribulation?
I believe the rapture could take place anytime, but it has to take place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord takes place slightly before the great tribulation begins.
The Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood, triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.
The image made of the beast, the abomination of desolation, placed in the temple, triggers the great tribulation.
But you are saying to other people that the rapture is not until after the great tribulation begins. That part is on you. There are consequences to what we confess with our mouths.I believe I will be raptured, period. When that is, is up to Jesus.
There will be multitudes who become Christians after the rapture takes place, and the great tribulation begins.Well, doesn't Rev. 7 say "these are those who come out of the Great Tribulation." So they didn't die before the GT, they were in it.
But you are saying to other people that the rapture is not after the great tribulation begins. That part is on you. There are consequences to what we confess with our mouths.
What do you mean by "a second" time. I know what I believe but what do you believe? Do you mean 1. the rapture and 2. the second coming?
There will be multitudes who become Christians after the rapture takes place, and the great tribulation begins.
CharismaticLady said: ↑
I totally disagree. That is the second coming. Look at Revelation 7. "those who come out of the Great Tribulation". Those are Christians who went into the GT as nominal Christians and had to give their lives as martyrs to stand up and be counted.
Douggg said: ↑
What is the Second coming?
Them in Revelation 7 are them who die during the great tribulation. Their souls are in heaven.
Interesting.CharismaticLady said: ↑
But don't you believe the "rapture" is before the Great Tribulation?
Preface: I'm of the mind that there is no rapture. But I was wondering for those who believe in one, can you provide Old Testament proof that God or anyone else spoke of it? In Amos, it's said that God doesn't do anything except He reveal it to the prophets first. And please, if you're going to post, you can respond with something better than an abstract bit in Genesis where it's said that Enoch was taken up. OK? Thanks!
Interesting.
Anyone want to take a stab at this verse in Reve 2?
Revelation 2:10 "tribulation 10 days"
Revelation 2:10
No yet thou be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering<3958>.
Behold! the Devil is being about to be casting ye into a prison, that ye may be being tried<3985>. And ye shall be having tribulation ten days,
Be thou becoming faithful until death! and I shall be giving to thee the Crown of the Life.
I am not big on this sort of thing and tend to agree with @gradyll about the often divisive nature of people who discuss end times things.Preface: I'm of the mind that there is no rapture. But I was wondering for those who believe in one, can you provide Old Testament proof that God or anyone else spoke of it? In Amos, it's said that God doesn't do anything except He reveal it to the prophets first. And please, if you're going to post, you can respond with something better than an abstract bit in Genesis where it's said that Enoch was taken up. OK? Thanks!
Interesting post CL.Sure, the 10 days of tribulation of the church age of Smyrna were the 10 emperors that martyred Christians. Don't forget the 7 letters (7 being the number of completeness), was the complete prophetic history of the Church in ages.
The myrrh, as the sound in Smyrna is used in treating dead bodies in ancient times before burial, thus Smyrna was the church age of martyrs. Remember it was one of the gifts of the three wisemen. It is very fragrant, and was also used in perfumes and incense.
In the New Testament
Myrrh is mentioned in the New Testament as one of the three gifts (with gold and frankincense) that the magi "from the East" presented to the Christ Child (Matthew 2:11).
Myrrh was also present at Jesus' death and burial. Jesus was offered wine and myrrh before the crucifixion (Mark 15:23). According to John's Gospel, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea brought a 100-pound mixture of myrrh and aloes to wrap Jesus' body (John 19:39). The Gospel of Matthew relates that as Jesus went to the cross, he was given vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink (Matthew 27:34); the Gospel of Mark describes the drink as wine mingled with myrrh (Mark 15:23).
In contemporary Christianity
Because of its mention in the New Testament, myrrh is an incense offered during some Christian liturgical celebrations (see Thurible). Liquid myrrh is sometimes added to egg tempera in the making of icons. Myrrh is mixed with frankincense and sometimes more scents and is used in almost every service of the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, traditional Roman Catholic, and Anglican/Episcopal churches.
The word "myrrh" is only used 2 times in the NT.Myrrh is also used to prepare the sacramental chrism used by many churches of both Eastern and Western rites. In the Middle East, the Eastern Orthodox Church traditionally uses oil scented with myrrh (and other fragrances) to perform the sacrament of chrismation, which is commonly referred to as "receiving the Chrism".
==============================The myrrh plant is found throughout the Middle East and was used in the manufacture of an aromatic ointment. When bruised and crushed, the myrrh gives forth a lovely fragrance.
Myrrh was used to embalm the bodies of the dead. Carefully the linens were prepared, and wound around the bodies of the loved ones, while myrrh was packed between the folds of the cloth. Thus was the body of our Lord embalmed!
After the death of Jesus, the women, who had loved and followed Him on earth, brought one hundred pounds of myrrh and aloes to the tomb. With what grief did they take that precious body and wind about it the linen cloths! With what untold tenderness did they lay it away in the bed of fragrant spices!
Thus myrrh is a type of suffering and death, and some in the church at Smyrna were to pass through bitter persecution, severe trials, and intense testings, as a picture of that which all of God’s called and chosen elect must also pass through. Their sufferings, however, instead of destroying them, would give forth the rich perfume of heaven, the life of the spirit!
"Rapture" is intended to mean "snatch away" I think. It's a fairly recent doctrine. The product of Darbyism. So it isn't a part of either testament but some passage do give a vague reference to being "taken up" in various circumstances. And some passages from the Thessalonian letters of Paul can be read in a Darby-friendly way I think, but that is more a matter of imposing J N Darby's eschatology on scripture than discovering it to be clearly revealed in scripture.Preface: I'm of the mind that there is no rapture. But I was wondering for those who believe in one, can you provide Old Testament proof that God or anyone else spoke of it? In Amos, it's said that God doesn't do anything except He reveal it to the prophets first. And please, if you're going to post, you can respond with something better than an abstract bit in Genesis where it's said that Enoch was taken up. OK? Thanks!
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