Question about the flood

[Tinker Grey]

Continental drift, so, I guess broke apart? Pangea wasn't the first supercontinent containing the majority of the land mass on this planet. That would be Columbia (also called Nuna) which existed over a billion years ago. Not sure why people act as if Pangea was the only one.

Because before today, I'd never heard of Nuna/Columbia.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because before today, I'd never heard of Nuna/Columbia.

There have been several. And Nuna/Columbia was not the one that was before Pangaea:

Supercontinent - Wikipedia

 

[AV1611VET]

There have been several. And Nuna/Columbia was not the one that was before Pangaea:

I use Pangaea because it is the most recognizable one, and people know what I'm talking about.

The Bible calls it "Eden."

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land [Eden] appear: and it was so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I use Pangaea because it is the most recognizable one, and people know what I'm talking about.

No, Pangaea is a name we have for the last supercontinent, Eden is a location in a myth. Pangaea existed roughly 200 million years ago. Eden never existed.
But then you knew that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

-_- but you were talking about primates existing around the time of Pangea. Pangea broke apart 175 million years ago, so absolutely no primates on Pangea. Heck, the oldest mammal fossil is 160 million years old. Also, the oldest KNOWN primate fossil is 55 million years old, so no playing with dinos for those monkeys.

That would make sense because the dinosaurs and primates require a totally different environment.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Collins knows that the Adam and Eve story is a myth.

Your statement is not true. He believes that: "science does not rule out the possibility of a historical Adam and Eve,". Adam and Eve were historical people that lived around 6,000 years ago in the Tigris - Euphrates river valley now known as Ancient Mesopotamia. For 50 years I have extensively studied the ancient history from this period of time.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Eden is a location in a myth.

You seem to like to use the word "myth" but this is not a Bible word. We talk about allegories and in the Bible we read about shadows and type. If we were having a discussion about Greek Mythology then they use the word "MYTH". But they do not use the worth MYTH when you are having a serious discussion about the Bible. Jung used the word "archetype". In the Bible we talk about parables. It is popular to talk about allegories today and there is a new author using words like Harbinger and Paradigm. Perhaps you never studied Greek mythology so you do not know the difference. My son is studying Computer engineering and he is required to read the Iliad. When I was in High School I was required to read the Odyssey. Some people considered Troy to be a mythological city. Now archaeology has shown that Troy in Homers book was a real city. There is no reason to believe that Helen of Troy was not a real person. That either ran off with or was kidnapped by Paris. Then when Paris and his brother were killed Helen went back to her husband. Of course to show that Troy was a real city does not make the story of Helen and Paris a true story. We just have no evidence to show that they were not real people and the story was not true. In fact this is pretty much the way they told historical stories back then. Again this is clearly not your area of expertise. Still people need to be able to distinguish between the Hebrew people and the Greek people. That is why my son is required to study and read Greek Mythology so that he does not get confused as to what mythology is and how we can gain understanding from Mythology the way Jung does with archetypes.

As I said many times. The director and principal in my high school were educated in Germany. So I got more of a classic education compared to what people get in the public schools. Still I do not understand why you do not have a basic understanding of literature even if you did study Geology. This should have been one of your prerequisites.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your statement is not true. He believes that: "science does not rule out the possibility of a historical Adam and Eve,". Adam and Eve were historical people that lived around 6,000 years ago in the Tigris - Euphrates river valley now known as Ancient Mesopotamia. For 50 years I have extensively studied the ancient history from this period of time.

Where did he ever make this claim? He knows that there never were only two people. He knows that we share a common ancestor with all life. I did quote him saying that. You have made claims but have not been able to substantiate them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You seem to like to use the word "myth" but this is not a Bible word.

Only because you keep referring to obvious myths.

We talk about allegories and in the Bible we read about shadows and type. If we were having a discussion about Greek Mythology then they use the word "MYTH". But they do not use the worth MYTH when you are having a serious discussion about the Bible. Jung used the word "archetype". In the Bible we talk about parables. It is popular to talk about allegories today and there is a new author using words like Harbinger and Paradigm. Perhaps you never studied Greek mythology so you do not know the difference. My son is studying Computer engineering and he is required to read the Iliad. When I was in High School I was required to read the Odyssey. Some people considered Troy to be a mythological city. Now archaeology has shown that Troy in Homers book was a real city. There is no reason to believe that Helen of Troy was not a real person. That either ran off with or was kidnapped by Paris. Then when Paris and his brother were killed Helen went back to her husband. Of course to show that Troy was a real city does not make the story of Helen and Paris a true story. We just have no evidence to show that they were not real people and the story was not true. In fact this is pretty much the way they told historical stories back then. Again this is clearly not your area of expertise. Still people need to be able to distinguish between the Hebrew people and the Greek people. That is why my son is required to study and read Greek Mythology so that he does not get confused as to what mythology is and how we can gain understanding from Mythology the way Jung does with archetypes.

Please, just because you may have a lack of education you should not assume that of others. And even though Troy is a real city no one has proposed taking the Iliad seriously at all. There may have been an ancient war, but to try to come up with a reason for that war is pure speculation. Just as New York City being a real city is not evidence for Spiderman, the existence of a real Troy is not evidence for Helen.

As I said many times. The director and principal in my high school were educated in Germany. So I got more of a classic education compared to what people get in the public schools. Still I do not understand why you do not have a basic understanding of literature even if you did study Geology. This should have been one of your prerequisites.

I do have an understanding. You appear to believe that the myths of the Bible are true. If not you could simply tell me that you take the flood of Noah seriously. You could say that you believe that there were only two people at one point in the Earth's history. You would of course be demonstrably wrong. And you may prefer the word "allegory" to myth, but that is merely a label. By your standards Spiderman would be an allegory too since we can get moral lessons from the comic:

'Whatever life holds in store for me, I will never forget these words: "With great power, comes great responsibility." '

 

[AV1611VET]

You seem to like to use the word "myth" but this is not a Bible word.

He myth-understands.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Where did he ever make this claim?

On his website. He does not claim to have all the answers because ever answer creates 10 more questions. Also he has some questions he answers on belief net. As a Christian we have more answers then Scientists have apart from the Eternal Word of God. I have always said science and religion are like a left and right hand. We need both working together in symphony and in harmony.

"Well, as a scientist who's also a believer, the chance to uncover the incredible intricacies of God's creation is an occasion of worship. To be able to look, for the first time in human history, at all three billion letters of the human DNA--which I think of as God's language--it gives us just a tiny glimpse into the amazing creative power of his mind. Every discovery that we now make in science [is], for me, a chance to worship him in a broader sense, to appreciate just in a small bit the amazing grandeur of his creation. It also helps me appreciate though that as a scientist, there are limits to the kinds of questions that science can answer. And that's where I have to turn to God and seek his answers."
Read more at 'God Is Not Threatened by Our Scientific Adventures'

 

[DogmaHunter]

I have always said science and religion are like a left and right hand. We need both working together in symphony and in harmony.

Why and how is that "needed"?

"Well, as a scientist who's also a believer, the chance to uncover the incredible intricacies of God's creation is an occasion of worship. To be able to look, for the first time in human history, at all three billion letters of the human DNA--which I think of as God's language--it gives us just a tiny glimpse into the amazing creative power of his mind. Every discovery that we now make in science [is], for me, a chance to worship him in a broader sense, to appreciate just in a small bit the amazing grandeur of his creation. It also helps me appreciate though that as a scientist, there are limits to the kinds of questions that science can answer. And that's where I have to turn to God and seek his answers."
Read more at 'God Is Not Threatened by Our Scientific Adventures'

Nothing in that quote corresponds with what you previously claimed about his beliefs concerning genesis.

 

[Jimmy D]

On his website. He does not claim to have all the answers because ever answer creates 10 more questions. Also he has some questions he answers on belief net. As a Christian we have more answers then Scientists have apart from the Eternal Word of God. I have always said science and religion are like a left and right hand. We need both working together in symphony and in harmony.

"Well, as a scientist who's also a believer, the chance to uncover the incredible intricacies of God's creation is an occasion of worship. To be able to look, for the first time in human history, at all three billion letters of the human DNA--which I think of as God's language--it gives us just a tiny glimpse into the amazing creative power of his mind. Every discovery that we now make in science [is], for me, a chance to worship him in a broader sense, to appreciate just in a small bit the amazing grandeur of his creation. It also helps me appreciate though that as a scientist, there are limits to the kinds of questions that science can answer. And that's where I have to turn to God and seek his answers."
Read more at 'God Is Not Threatened by Our Scientific Adventures'

Actually the original quote about Adam and Eve was from Daniel Harrell (guest author on Biologos) not Francis Collins.

 

[Jimmy D]

On his website. He does not claim to have all the answers because ever answer creates 10 more questions. Also he has some questions he answers on belief net. As a Christian we have more answers then Scientists have apart from the Eternal Word of God. I have always said science and religion are like a left and right hand. We need both working together in symphony and in harmony.

"Well, as a scientist who's also a believer, the chance to uncover the incredible intricacies of God's creation is an occasion of worship. To be able to look, for the first time in human history, at all three billion letters of the human DNA--which I think of as God's language--it gives us just a tiny glimpse into the amazing creative power of his mind. Every discovery that we now make in science [is], for me, a chance to worship him in a broader sense, to appreciate just in a small bit the amazing grandeur of his creation. It also helps me appreciate though that as a scientist, there are limits to the kinds of questions that science can answer. And that's where I have to turn to God and seek his answers."
Read more at 'God Is Not Threatened by Our Scientific Adventures'

The ’Evidence for Belief’: An Interview with Francis Collins

Francis collins: If Augustine, who was one of the most thoughtful, original thinkers about biblical interpretation that we’ve ever had, was unable to figure out what Genesis meant 1,600 years ago, why should we today insist that we know what it means, particularly when the interpretation chosen contradicts a wide variety of data that God has given us the chance to discover through science.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If not you could simply tell me that you take the flood of Noah seriously. You could say that you believe that there were only two people at one point in the Earth's history.

There were lots of people ON the earth. There were lots of males and lots of females. Adam and Eve was the first man and the first women. They were the first husband and the first wife. They were the first farmers and the beginning of Civilization. The list of firsts just goes on and on. To many firsts to list in a single post.

DNA tells us that Time magazine Eve had many daughters. Brian Sykes talks about 7 different daughters of Eve in Europe alone. The Eve in the Bible is one of those 7 daughters (19 world wide). She gave birth to the Hebrew people today. There actual genealogy is in the Bible. For example the Muslim people call Abraham their father and Hagar the maid of Sarah is their mother. The Hebrew people have Abraham for a father and Sarah for a mother. So they are the children of the same father but a different mother. Christians today are adopted into the family of God so they do not have the same DNA as the Muslims and the Hebrews.

I just ran the DNA on my son. He is 33% Asian, 48% European, 17% Polynesian & 2% middle east. I thought he had more middle east and less Asian but that did not turn out to be the case. None of this was a surprise because I have studied the written history of our family and the DNA just confirms what we know from written history.

This is exactly what happens with the Bible. The DNA confirms the Bible to be accurate and true. Even if man's myths and mistaken beliefs and traditional interpretations of the Bible are shattered. Jesus tells us in Mark 7:8 "You have disregarded the commandment of God to keep the tradition of men.” He warns us in Mark 8:14 to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod". Clearly Mark was a good student and he listened to the teachings of the Master. People would be wise to beware of the traditions of man and the leaven of the Pharisees today. We need to take stumbling blocks and turn them into stepping stones. To many people continue to stumble and fall because they lack the wisdom, knowledge and understanding of God. Good that Matthew was listening when Jesus said: "Disregard them! They are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” Matthew 15:14

Perhaps people would do good to disregard the teaching of the blind that stumble around in the darkness. Blessed are those that have eyes to see and ears to hear the truth and they understand the teachings of Jesus as the disciples did.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The ’Evidence for Belief’: An Interview with Francis Collins

Francis collins: If Augustine, who was one of the most thoughtful, original thinkers about biblical interpretation that we’ve ever had, was unable to figure out what Genesis meant 1,600 years ago, why should we today insist that we know what it means, particularly when the interpretation chosen contradicts a wide variety of data that God has given us the chance to discover through science.

The point of the interview is that Collins does not see any conflict between Science and Faith: "I don’t believe there is an inherent conflict, but I believe that humans, in our imperfect nature, sometimes imagine conflicts where there are none."

This is good news. The Bible student can study their Bible. The Scientist can study science and they do not have to worry about any conflict because Science confirms that the Bible is 100% accurate and true. For over 100 years now people have used archaeology to show just how accurate the Bible is. Even if we do not have all the answers. Because as Paul tells us it is not about solving all the mysteries, it is about walking in love and using the knowledge we have to help and not hinder or restrict others.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Actually the original quote about Adam and Eve was from Daniel Harrell (guest author on Biologos) not Francis Collins.

That is why I started off saying "on his website". I do not think he would have anything on the site that he does not support or believe.

 

[PsychoSarah]

There have been several. And Nuna/Columbia was not the one that was before Pangaea:

Supercontinent - Wikipedia

I didn't say it was the one before Pangaea. I said Nuna was the first one, and that Pangaea wasn't the first one. In fact, if I recall correctly, Pangea was one of if not the last... for now.

 

[Jimmy D]

This is good news. The Bible student can study their Bible. The Scientist can study science and they do not have to worry about any conflict because Science confirms that the Bible is 100% accurate and true.

Francis Collins believes that Gen 1 and 2 give contradictory accounts. How can one contradict the other and still be 100% accurate?

 

[AV1611VET]

Francis Collins believes that Gen 1 and 2 give contradictory accounts. How can one contradict the other and still be 100% accurate?

By Francis Collins being wrong.