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Featured Question about eternal damnation

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by YahEli, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    If I only lived 85 years, why would a just punishment be a bazillion times longer?
     
  2. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    When more than half of your creation reject you and end up in eternal torturous suffering, you might have failed at “creation.” LOL.
     
  3. Benama

    Benama New Member

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    Maybe it's because He doesn't want to destroy us. God loves us. He punishes those who He has given multiple chances to repent, but still don't do it.
    Imagine a mother telling her child over and over again not to step on the couch with his shoes because of germs, yet the child refuses to obey after being given multiple chances to do so. What will the mother do? She will punish her child. Not because she hates the child, but because she loves the child.
    Also, have you ever heard of parents who kick out disobedient kids out of their homes? Yes, me too.
    We don't realize that God has an anger point. If you cross that point, He gets angry. You can't sin over and over again and expect God to forgive you over and over again. He isn't our "God please forgive me" toy that we come to only when we feel guilty. He is our everything.
    It's your choice. Either you serve God, suffer in this world, but inherit the Kingdom of our Heavenly father, or serve Satan, benefit in this world, but inherit eternal condemnation.
     
  4. Benama

    Benama New Member

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    Then who did?
     
  5. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    I hardly think the prospect of people in eternal torment warrants a "LOL." You've a very...peculiar sense of humor.

    It's not a failing on God's part that the majority of people He makes freely choose to reject Him. Should He force us to love Him? How would that work, exactly? How does one force love? It seems pretty evident to me that if God is the good God the Bible declares Him to be, then of all the possible worlds God could have actualized, the one in which the maximum number of people freely choose Him is the one He has brought into being - the one in which you and I live. It seems to me, then, that this world, populated by rebellious, hell-bound sinners though it is, remains a testament to the goodness of God who was under no obligation whatever to save anyone from their just punishment in hell.

    God would not have failed in His Creation, of which humans constitute only a sub-microscopic part, if every human He made ended up in hell. Creation isn't about humanity; it's about God. Creation displays God's glory, His power, His excellency, His perfection. Accomplishing this doesn't in the least depend upon how many wicked humans God saves.
     
  6. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Our idea of hell and what it (actually) "is" is wrong, is the problem... otherwise you'd see just how just it (really) is...

    God Bless!
     
  8. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    No one. Hell is a myth.
     
  9. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    I do find it funny, and I find all of the semantic games people employ to support their belief in a hell created by a loving god funny. The god you describe is, IMO, a failure. I wouldn’t think it was funny if there was a possibility of actual people actually going to hell.
     
  10. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I'll give you a "clue"...

    The people who only really only wanted more of this life only, or chose no more than this life only, will only get more of this life only, forever...

    And, in fact, that has already all already been decided and determined from the foundation of, or from before the foundations of this world... And also, likewise, those who won't stay here also (but that's another subject entirely)...

    God Bless!
     
  11. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    That's an excellent question. If remember correctly, I read one answer where it stated something like sins against an infinite God required infinite punishment. I don't buy it. God is infinite but could not his attributes also include infinite grace and infinite mercy as well? Another question would be is punishment the equivalent of justice? We know that God is just, but does he punish forever? Seems to me that those are two different things. Being condemned to the lake of fire certainly qualifies as punishment but does it meet the demands of justice? For example, a rapist rapes a woman. He claims he is innocent and is not repentant for his crime but is found guilty and sentenced to prison. We would agree that the rapist is being punished but the rape victim will have to live with the consequences of what happened for the rest of her life. Is that justice as the victim has to live with life-long consequences despite no fault of her own? Suppose yet that a child was conceived and born as a result of the rape and the mother now has the responsibility to raise the child on her own while the perpetrator does nothing but sit in jail. Is that justice? Based on this example, it can be argued that there is a difference between punishment and justice as the former does not always meet the demands of the latter. The pertinent question to consider then is how can punishment also meet the demands of justice in this case? I would submit that the answer demands that the perpetrator of the crime has to willingly agree to make amends and seek reconciliation with his victim. He needs to admit guilt, seek forgiveness and make recompense for his crime - perhaps some sort of ongoing financial obligation/support when he leaves prison and hopefully gets a job. The point is justice is only accomplished when the perpetrator participates in making amends toward the one he is guilty of offending.

    I think this human scenario approximates the picture of how God deals with us justly for our sins against Him. There is Biblical precedent for this view of punishment/justice throughout the scriptures. For example Ex 22:1 states: "If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and kills it or sells it, he shall repay five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep." In the NT, Zacchaeus promises Jesus that he will restore fourfold those whom he has defrauded. These instances exemplify that justice demands not just the aspect of punishment but also recompense in order to make amends and fully bring about God's justice.

    Given this scriptural evidence, we can apply this to the concept of an eternal hell. Being condemned to eternal punishment in the lake of fire certainly constitutes as punishment but it does not bring about God's justice because the inhabitants in the lake of fire have no opportunity to admit their guilt, seek forgiveness and seek to make recompense as it is "already too late." They must suffer the consequence of their sin forever. There is no chance for amends and reconciliation with God and therein lies the weakness with the retributive view of hell.
     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  13. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist with attitude

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    Friend you have it backwards. In this universe you can't have white without black. Light without dark. Cold without hot. Righteousness without sinfulness. Heaven without hell. Hell is where we are bound without salvation, without belief in our God. We don't sin to arrive in hell. We are saved to avoid hell. God gave man one commandment. Don't eat of that tree. Man did anyway. God gave man 10 commandments. All of them were about what man was doing against God and against their fellow man. Man can't live without violating them. So God gave his only begotten Son to avoid the hell he is headed toward of his own volition. Look at how many in the world have rejected him in spite of the evidence before them. Again, man is headed toward hell on his own. Jesus gave his life willingly to give us a road map to avoid that destination.
     
  14. YahEli

    YahEli New Member

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    Thats totally untrue, friend.
    Light does exist without darkness, and good without evil. On earth as it is in heaven. There is no more darkness than darkness.
    In the reality darkness is just abscence of light. Evil abscence of good.
    One candle in the room and no more darkness.
    Darkness cannot be measured. But intensity of Light can. From a candle to a lamp to the sun to the Lord of all lights etc...
    There is no more dark than darkness
    In reality darkness flees in the presence of light.
    Righteousness does and did since always exist without sinfulness.
    Heaven did since the beginning exist without hell....until inequity was found in him (satan)
     
  15. YahEli

    YahEli New Member

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    Friend are you on purpose posting unbiblical ideas when it is clearly a christian discussion?
    Or u are already aware of ur evilness and serve satan knowingly and are here only out of hatred and envy towards the children of light.
    Ur moking our Creator u snake? Wait and see....
    And also changing the percentage of those who rebelled to more than 1/2 when in reality it is less than a 1/3...
    Live ur last days on earth... A place has been prepared for u, future resident of hell
     
  16. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Marine: Do you really believe the Lord is placing the destiny of a broken lost sinner in his own wee will?

    By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the...

    Ex= The Source

    Di= The Agent

    Eiv= The Goal


    The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

    Romans 11:36=

    ta pavnte/ ta panta, "in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming."

    It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta

    The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

    The prefix "re" means back again, again, anew--and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

    In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis
     
  17. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    He didn't. The damned souls and spirits created it themselves by fundamentally rejecting He who is Good.

    Souls which can damn themselves to hell, by their very nature, exist eternally after they are created, and God respects the choice they made. It's a punishment of their own making, and they freely chose it.
     
  18. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  19. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    What Love Is All About

    It was a busy morning, approximately 8:30 am, when an elderly gentleman, in his 80's arrived to have stitches removed from his thumb. He stated that he was in a hurry and that he had an appointment at 9:00 am. I took his vital signs, and had him take a seat, knowing it would be over an hour before someone would be able to see him. I saw him looking at his watch and decided, since I was not busy with another patient, I would evaluate his wound.

    On exam it was well healed, so I talked to one of the doctors, got the needed supplies to remove his sutures and redressed his wound. While taking care of him, we began to engage in conversation. I asked him if he had a doctor's appointment this morning, as he was in such a hurry. The gentleman told me no, that he needed to go to the nursing home to eat breakfast with his wife. I then inquired as to her health. He told me that she had been there for awhile and was a victim of Alzheimer's Disease.

    As we talked and I finished dressing his wound, I asked if she would be worried if he was a bit late. He replied that she no longer knew who he was, and hadn't recognized him in five years. I was surprised, and asked him, "And you still go every morning, even though she doesn't know who you are?" He smiled and patted my hand and said,

    "She doesn't know me, but I still know who she is.
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +693
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    My friend: you may have insider knowledge, but our God who IS consuming fire & the Lake of Fire are not created they are. The Lake is the limne of Theos, it radiates with theion which is rooted in Theos. Welcome to our God!

     
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