Question about eternal damnation

[FineLinen]

Yes, I really believe it is in our hands to decide. It is in His hands to bless us and forgive us.

Dear Marine: I have no idea what drew you to the Lord Jesus Christ, for me as a young lad it was a huge hole only He could fill. I did not choose Him it never was in my hands!

 

[aiki]

Dear Aiki: Where would you like to start? Perhaps with ta panta? Where sighing one would you like to start?

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the...

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, "in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming."

It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix "re" means back again, again, anew--and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

And so? Do you have a particular point concerning the doctrine of hell? Or do you just like to pontificate?

 

[FineLinen]

I never really learned about Hell and what it is for myself. But what I was told...If you were bad you would go there and burn forever and ever. Sometimes we need to read for ourselves....

Dear Corinth: If that is what you were told you were given wrong information. I hope you are not a father! Do you actually believe the Father of all fathers actually is capable of such a scheme? His punishment has one objective change & transformation.

 

[FineLinen]

And so? Do you have a particular point concerning the doctrine of hell? Or do you just like to pontificate?

Dear sigh: evidently everything is evading your grasp. The ta panta is the Source & the Goal of the all. If you imagine your dogma of hell being the end for any of Abba's creation you are sadly mistaken!

 

[Loyce KG]

Why did God create a place like hell to put "damned souls and spirits" in it? Isnt it more merciful to control/alt/delete those souls from creation instead of punishing them and making them suffer forever?

Because God is loving. Without free will, there is no concept of love. Think of it this way; God whose mercy, grace, goodness and love are infinite decided and wants to share His love with creatures made in His image nad likeness (that's a priviledge) He creates them out of nothing and gives them free will. He makes these creatures free because he wants them to freely love him. Why? Because love requires freedom. Gen 2:7, God then gives these creatures abundant life and the earth to dominate.
Then what happens, the same creatures freely disobey (Gen 3:6) God even when He forewarned them about the consequences.
But wait,when these creatures (Adam and eve) sin, God covers them with His grace and the consequences are not as they were mentioned(man didn't die, but was spiritually separated from God).
Many years after sacrifices and offerings made by man are not worthy of complete forgiveness, God Himself in form of man (Jesus) lives among theses fallen creatures, exhibiting works of love and dies to liberate them. He pays their price for their iniquity. He is sooo loving that He tells us of His desire that all men be saved.(1 Tim 2:4). He reveals Himself to man through creation and their conscience (Romans 1:19-20). He even extends common grace to those who rebel against Him and lets them flourish (Jeremiah 12:1-2).
He is long suffering so that all men can come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). He makes salvation not of works (which is impossible) but one of grace by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). He gives man His Word which is full of life and His promises, yet men choose to rebel. So He preparers a place for those vessels of disobedience to eternally be separated from Him. What makes Hell is not the lake of fire but the wrath of God in totality. You deny Him now (as freely chosen), He lets you have your way eternally.

The question shouldn't be about God but about men. Which man upon seeing the goodness of God, would deny Him? Sinners do!

 

[aiki]

Dear sigh: evidently everything is evading your grasp. The ta panta is the Source & the Goal of the all. If you imagine your dogma of hell being the end for any of Abba's creation you are sadly mistaken!

It isn't that what you've posted evaded my grasp, but that you failed to draw from your pontifications a conclusion that was pertinent to this thread.

What difference do your observations on "ta panta" make to the doctrine of eternal hell? You've not said.

It isn't my "dogma of hell" but the clear teaching of Scripture. If it is mistaken, then I am mistaken. Are you suggesting Scripture is mistaken?

 

[FineLinen]

The question shouldn't be about God but about men. Which man upon seeing the goodness of God, would deny Him? Sinners do!

Dear Loyce: Not quite!

God indeed play around with His glory and absolutely does not place His plans and purposes in such weak beings as us. The Restitution of all things, the prophets & sages of the Glory One saw, encompasses that which is His Plan, not yours or mine, or any other fallen wreck in Adam1.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has crowned us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms in Christ; even as, in His love, he chose us as His own in Christ before the creation of the world, that we might be holy and without blemish in His presence.

For He pre-destined us to be adopted by Himself as sons through Jesus Christ--such being His gracious will and pleasure-- to the praise of the splendour of His grace with which He has enriched us in the beloved One. It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will.

And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him...

 

[FineLinen]

It isn't that what you've posted evaded my grasp, but that you failed to draw from your pontifications a conclusion that was pertinent to this thread.

What difference do your observations on "ta panta" make to the doctrine of eternal hell? You've not said.

It isn't my "dogma of hell" but the clear teaching of Scripture. If it is mistaken, then I am mistaken. Are you suggesting Scripture is mistaken?

Dear Aiki: Why don't you direct me to the passages of Canon that speak of "eternal hell" for a start. From there I will pontificate you into a study of aionios and aidios.

Search= Eternal Torment=

"Your search query for 'eternal torment' did not return any results. Please modify your search query and try again."

Search= Eternal Separation=

"Your search query for 'eternal separation' did not return any results. Please modify your search query and try again."

Search= Eternal Hell=

"Your search query for 'eternal hell' did not return any results. Please modify your search query and try again."

Search= Everlasting Hell=

"Your search query for 'everlasting hell' did not return any results. Please modify your search query and try again."

Search= Everlasting death=

"Your search query for 'everlasting death' did not return any results. Please modify your search query and try again."

Search= Eternal death=

"Your search query for 'eternal death' did not return any results. Please modify your search query and try again."

Search= Everlasting Punishment =

1 entry found Matt. 25.46

 

[Loyce KG]

Dear Loyce: Not quite!

God indeed play around with His glory and absolutely does not place His plans and purposes in such weak beings as us. The Restitution of all things, the prophets & sages of the Glory One saw, encompasses that which is His Plan, not yours or mine, or any other fallen wreck in Adam1.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has crowned us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms in Christ; even as, in His love, he chose us as His own in Christ before the creation of the world, that we might be holy and without blemish in His presence.

For He pre-destined us to be adopted by Himself as sons through Jesus Christ--such being His gracious will and pleasure-- to the praise of the splendour of His grace with which He has enriched us in the beloved One. It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will.

And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him...

Where did I say otherwise? If you think man has no free will, then let me know. God is outside of time and He knows the beginning from the end.
Kindly elaborate what is not quite?

 

[marineimaging]

The biblical accounts of Jesus are that He called the disciples and they came. They had a choice. And He didn't call the woman to touch his garment. She came of her own belief. He didn't call the 5000 to listen and they sure were not there for the cuisine. But they came and listened anyway. It was their choice. The old man lowered to through the ceiling, he came through faith even though he was not called. The Canaanite woman who came to him for her daughter being vexed by devils , she came. She wasn't called nor forced, but came just for the table scraps. Your bible is not my bible and your description is not my understanding of our Lord and His love and desire for us. Peace.

 

[Lazarus Short]

More than ever, I am convinced that the Bible teaches that Gehenna is real and that the unrepentant sinners who are consigned there do not cease ever to suffer its torments.

Yes, Gehenna was and is real - it was the town dump of Jerusalem, and is today a park-like place that you can visit. Jesus' mention of Gehenna was referring to the town dump, but like so many things in the Bible, was subverted by theo-illogical bias.

 

[Loyce KG]

Dear Marine: I have no idea what drew you to the Lord Jesus Christ, for me as a young lad it was a huge hole only He could fill. I did not choose Him it never was in my hands!

He opened your eyes and you responded by believing. You didnt Choose Him, you responded t His call. Your Christian walk is a conscious decision to walk as He walked by faith. You are not a robot.

 

[FineLinen]

Where did I say otherwise? If you think man has no free will, then let me know. God is outside of time and He knows the beginning from the end.
Kindly elaborate what is not quite?

Dear Loyce: "The question shouldn't be about God but about men. Which man upon seeing the goodness of God, would deny Him? Sinners do!"

Man has indeed a will, do you think a little will of broken lost sinners trumps the thelo Will of all wills?

I will ask you one question. What does it mean to be "in/en" Christ Jesus? When you answer that we will take a look at worship by every being in the heavens, the earth, and the underworld.

 

[Loyce KG]

Dear Loyce: "The question shouldn't be about God but about men. Which man upon seeing the goodness of God, would deny Him? Sinners do!"

Man has indeed a will, do you think a little will of a broken lost sinners trumps the thelo Will of all wills?

I will ask you one question. What does it mean to be "in/en" Christ Jesus? When you answer that we will take a look at worship by every being in the heavens, the earth, and the underworld.

Read my post again. I listed the goodness of God in having created man, extended grace to all men and yet they still rebel. You seem to enjoy digging holes where they aren't!

 

[FineLinen]

The biblical accounts of Jesus are that He called the disciples and they came. They had a choice.

Dear Marine: Au contraire. "You did not choose Me, I chose you..."

Your next assignment should you be willing to accept it, define the koine "helkuo".

 

[FineLinen]

Read my post again. I listed the goodness of God in having created man, extended grace to all men and yet they still rebel. You seem to enjoy digging holes where they aren't!

Dear Loyce: Man is a broken rebel. He is a will in need of transformation by the Will of all wills. Would you like to guess which will yields? God is not only good; He is good all the time! He also is a Math major!

In Adam1 the polus "were made sinners">>>>>>>

In the Last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ, the identical polus "are made righteous."

 

[mark kennedy]

Why did God create a place like hell to put "damned souls and spirits" in it? Isnt it more merciful to control/alt/delete those souls from creation instead of punishing them and making them suffer forever?

There is an alternate reading of the texts concerning tge lake of fire. I think the body and soul are both destroyed in the lake of fire.

 

[FineLinen]

He opened your eyes and you responded by believing. You didnt Choose Him, you responded t His call. Your Christian walk is a conscious decision to walk as He walked by faith. You are not a robot.

Dear Loyce: Your Christian walk is not by your faith. We live by the faith of the Son of God. We are dead & in Him live!

 

[FineLinen]

There is an alternate reading of the texts concerning tge lake of fire. I think the body and soul are both destroyed in the lake of fire.

Dear Mark: This is your mission for today: what is theion and what is the koine root of theion? Then perhaps you can state the difference (if any) between our God who is consuming fire and the fire of the Limne.

 

[Loyce KG]

Dear Loyce: Your Christian walk is not by your faith. We live by the faith of the Son of God. We are dead & in Him live!

Jesus Christ didn't need faith, He is God. Hebrews calls Him the author and finisher of our faith. Why would God need Faith? In whom?