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Featured Question about eternal damnation

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by YahEli, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. YahEli

    YahEli New Member

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    Why did God create a place like hell to put "damned souls and spirits" in it? Isnt it more merciful to control/alt/delete those souls from creation instead of punishing them and making them suffer forever?
     
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  2. eleos1954

    eleos1954 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    well He doesn't ... this is a mis-teaching and causes more stress, lack of trust in God, and keeps people from coming to God more than anything I know of.

    In the very end, God will totally destroy all the wicked, satan and his minions. God is NOT a sadist/terrorist.

    Malachi 4:1,3. "For behold the day is coming burning like and oven, and all the proud, yes allude wickedly shall be as stubble. And the day that is coming shall burn them up, says the Lord of hosts, that shall leave them neither root nor branch. . . You shall trample the wicked for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet."

    Psalm 37:9-10

    9 For the evildoers shall be cut off, but those who wait for the LORD shall inherit the land.

    Psalm 37

    10 In just a little while, the wicked will be no more;
    though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there.

    Psalm 37

    20But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.

    Psalms 92

    12His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

    Psalm 104

    35Let sinners be consumed from the earth And let the wicked be no more.Bless the LORD, O my soul. Praise the LORD!

    Psalm 145

    20The LORD keeps all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy.

    Matthew 3

    12His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

    Matthew 13

    30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

    Revelation 14:11

    11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever ....

    Revelation 20:9

    9And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.


    2 Peter 3

    7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

    2 Thessalonians 1

    9These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

    May God Bless you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  3. Lost4words

    Lost4words Like a puppy, i need guidance.

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    I guess we dont know God's mind. Also, interpretting His words correctly. Who knows what awaits us after death from this earthy prison?
     
  4. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    Read the last few verses in Isaiah 66. The scene is on the new earth.
    Read also Daniel 12:2.
    The just will have to look upon the wicked that their worm/gnawing, eating, torment, soul, conscience -or such never dies.
    I believe the wicked burning souls, or whatever part is left to live on, will be used as what keeps the kingdom of God holy.

    The just will be abhorred/in contempt when they view the wicked in the lake of fire. It seems that lake will be a pit that is yet to be dug in the land of Edom.
     
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  5. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because the gifts and the callings of God are without repentance. He gave us the gift of life and he does not remove our life. The lake of fire was not created for mankind, but the fallen angels, who also never die. But sin is cause of death and the fallen angels have sinned, too. We are born dead and aging is the process of decomposition. Decomposition continues forever in all who reject the new gift of life that comes from the new birth. For us who are born again, decomposition will not continue in the after life. Aging still occurs for us in this life because our bodies are not regenerated, only our spirits.
     
  6. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Malachi 3:6
    6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
    Hebrews 13:8
    8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
    ________________________________________________________


    The Lord God does not change. He is still a jealous God.
    Exodus 20:5
    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    Exodus 34:14
    14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
    Deuteronomy 6:14-16
    14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; 15(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth. 16Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
    1 Corinthians 10:14 - Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
    Colossians 3:5-6
    5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
    6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

    ________________________________________________________________


    He is still a vengeful God.
    Nahum 1:2-10
    2 God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
    3 The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
    4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.
    5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
    6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
    7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
    8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.
    9 What do ye imagine against the Lord? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
    10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.
    Romans 1:18-25
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    Romans 12:19
    19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
    Hebrews 10:31
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


    ______________________________________________
    The Lord God Yahweh is a vengeful, Jealous God. He has not changed and when the end comes all those who deny him will be cast into the Lake of Fire and brimstone, they will be tortured day and night forever and ever and the smoke of their torment will ascend up into heaven.
    Revelation 20:10-15
    10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    John 5:28-29
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    1 Cor 15:51-55
    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
    Revelation 14:9-11
    9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
    2 Thess 1:5-10
    5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
    6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
    Mark 9:42-48
    42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
    43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
    46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
    48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
    Isaiah 66:22-24
    22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
    24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
    Matt 25:31-34,40-41,44-46
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
    Daniel 12:1-2
    1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    Matt 8:11-12
    11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
    12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    Matt 13:38-42
    38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


    __________________________________________________________

    The Lord God Yahweh has not changed. By sending Christ to fulfill the Mosaic law and institute the law of Christ, Liberty, and Faith, he created a way for mankind to be saved since no man could be saved by the law(mosaic law).
    Romans 8:3-4
    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Romans 3:19-31
    19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.
    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
    29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
    30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
    31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
    Galatians 3:11-13
    11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
    12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    Galatians 2:16-21
    16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
    18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
    19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
    The law of liberty. James 1:25, James 2:8-12
    Law of Faith. Romans 3:19-28
    Law of Christ. Galatians 6:2, John 15:9-14

    __________________________________________________________

    But in doing so he in no way changed, he has always forgiven those who truly sought forgiveness.
    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
    Micah 7:18
    18 Who is a God like unto thee,
    that pardoneth iniquity,
    and passeth by the transgression
    of the remnant of his heritage?
    he retaineth not his anger for ever,
    because he delighteth in mercy.
    Proverbs 28:13
    13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper:
    but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
    Joel 2:13
    13 And rend your heart,
    and not your garments,
    and turn unto the Lord your God:
    for he is gracious and merciful,
    slow to anger, and of great kindness,
    and repenteth him of the evil.
    2 Chronicles 30:9
    9 For the Lord your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.
    Isaiah 55:7
    7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.


    The Lord is a vengeful and Jealous God, but he is also a God of Love and forgiveness to those who follow him. He created the lake of Fire to punish those who did what was abhorrent to his eyes.
     
  7. PlayingForTheLord

    PlayingForTheLord New Member

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    Imagine a brutal dictator. He rules for decades without remorse. He dies peacefully in his palace, surrounded by his family and loyal henchmen, having never paid for his crimes. If he simply no longer exists, where's the justice in that? I suppose one might think it would be better if he suffered in hell long enough to pay for his transgressions, then was "deleted" by God, but that would suggest that humans are wiser than God.

    Another angle: Why should there be eternal joy in heaven for temporal goodness on earth, but not eternal damnation in hell for temporal evil in earth? No one seems to have a problem with being saved by grace (because we are not saved by works), but many people have a problem with being condemned for willful, unremorseful sin and rejection of God.
     
  8. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    It's a matter of justice. If justice is appeased then mercy and grace can be shown. Justice was appeased by the cross, but that only applies to those who have come to faith in Christ. Annihilation doesn't satisfy the demands of justice.
     
  9. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did He? Or is "hell" a state of being rather than a place? In either case "hell" is (1) for the good of the offender & (2) separates the offenders from the saved. Hell is not pointless, endless, hopeless sadism.

    Yes. Though Love Omnipotent is even more merciful than that, so He deals with the unsaved until they become saved.

    Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
    Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

    1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
    1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

    Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
    20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

    Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

    Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times
     
  10. YahEli

    YahEli New Member

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    I agree
     
  11. YahEli

    YahEli New Member

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    I think justice, true justice is simply just. Every crime is punished according to the severity/duration of my crime. But for all eternity being punished?
    I'm sure God has a plan. One not written in the bible or any human book.
    I believe hell is real, but the term eternity is smthg we humans cannot grasp.
    It.might be such a long time that it seems forever.
    But i'm pretty sure after many eternities in hell, their inhabitants will one by one repent u until the last one (satan) is saved.
    Just me...
     
  12. YahEli

    YahEli New Member

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    Haha good analogy.
    But still many crimes in many states or countries are punishable here on earth by death. And the death penalty is considered by many more just than lifetime in prison
    So....
    Im pretty sure that God has a plan for hell too... One day after probably many "eternities"
     
  13. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    Eph 2:7

    That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
     
  14. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    No one enters into the holy city unless their name is written in the book of life.
    Also, there would have to be another resurrection out of the lake of fire -the bodies died - their worm dieth not.
     
  15. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    Rev 20:10

    And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
     
  16. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    Look at the pattern in the OT. One guy picks up sticks on the sabbath...how many people does God have kill him?
    Time and time again -the whole group kills -the wicked sinner, because -then all will hear and fear. and do that sin no more
     
  17. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    2 Peter 2:17
    "...to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever."

    /darkness/ referring to the lake of fire
    The OT tells about the wicked -as to shall never see light.
    Why reserve a location for that long if the people get to leave -before for ever?
     
  18. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    "...to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever."
    Jude 1:13
     
  19. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    Luk 18:17

    Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
     
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