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Featured Putting events in Revelation in chronological order?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    The end of the second woe is mentioned in
    Revelation 11:14
    14 The second Woe is past: behold, the third Woe cometh quickly.

    The killing of the 2 witnesses and their ascension to Heaven HAPPEN AT THE END OF THE SECOND WOE.

    Revelation 11:7-14....

    That is the killing of the 2 witnesses who will reveal who is the Beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit that the world shall wonder mentioned in Revelation 17:8 ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Riberra, your rationale goes wrong when you try to incorporate the two witnesses in with the second woe.

    The second woe ends in chapter 9. Chapter 10 starts a completely different vision. Which ends with John eating the little book, before continuing with the rest of Revelation.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    The time of the two witnesses is before any of the woes.
     
  3. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    I have said earlier that the time of the two witnesses will begin at the FIRST TRUMPET Revelation 8 AND WILL END AT THE END of the 6 TH TRUMPET EVENTS ....Revelation 11:14

    THE END OF THE SECOND WOE CLEARLY HAPPEN IN REVELATION 11:14 not in Revelation 9
    Revelation 11:14
    14 The second Woe is past: behold, the third Woe cometh quickly.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Between Revelation 9:21 and Revelation 11:14 there is a new vision and presentation inserted that has nothing to do with the woes.

    I understand that is what you are saying. But the 1260 days of the two witnesses are the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 before the war in heaven. Which the war in heaven is followed by the time, time, half times.

    Thus, the two witnesses time begins on day 1 of the 7 years.

    The trumpets don't begin to sound until the middle of the 7 years.

    The 1260 days in Revelation 12 is fixed in concrete as the first half of the 7 years, because it is before war in heaven, which is followed by the time, times, half times.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Do you think Satan and the wicked angels who followed him in rebellion against God are still living in heaven with God, and Christ, and the souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters?


    2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


    Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


    The end is found in Revelation 11:15-18.

    The 7th trumpet is the last trumpet in the Bible, in verse 15.
    The text says it is when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever". How long is "forever"?

    The "time of the judgment of the dead" with reward for some and destruction for others is found in verse 18.

    The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson which includes the fall of Satan and the birth and death of Christ.

    Satan was cast out of heaven long ago.

    He is now confined to this planet.


    .
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No, the war in heaven is talking about the second heaven.

    Them in the third heaven will rejoice over Satan being cast down, restricted to earth, because it is the first step in the process of taking way Satan's kingdom, mystery Babylon the great from having influence and power in the affairs of men.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It means Satan's kingdom mystery Babylon the great will never rise again.
     
  8. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I have done all he work here:

    Try reading Revelation as if its 5 different books.

    1.) Rev. chapters 1-3 is the Seven Churches of Asia Minor.

    2.) Rev. 4, 5, 7, and 19 is the Church in Heaven at different points in time after the Rapture.

    3.) Rev. 6, 8, 9, and 16 is the Seals/Trumpets/Vials in Chronological Order. (21 Judgments)

    4.) Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 18 are Visions given to John about things that happen in the last Seven Years but these Visions are all over the place as per their timing, much of these visions overlap. The story of the END TIMES is basically told in chapters 6, 8, 9 and 16, that is the 3.5 years of Gods Wrath. Most every chapter mentioned in BOLD ABOVE is things that happen in chapters 6, 8, 9 and 16. Not much of Revelation, if any, is about the first 3.5 years of Peace.

    Some of the Rev. 4 and 5 is pre the 3.5 years of Wrath, but its showing the Raptured Church in Heaven, thus when Jesus opens the Seals, the 3.5 years of Gods Wrath on Mankind begins.

    5.) Rev. 20, 21 and 22 is the 1000 year reign of Christ and the New Jerusalem or ever-after.

    Everything that happens in 4.) or in those Visions is just God giving us more Details on chapters about the 3.5 years of Gods Wrath, which are chapters 6, 8, 9 and 16.

    Rev. 11 and 15 I used to add with 6, 8, 9 and 16, I have come to realize they are SEPARATE VISIONS ALSO !! The Actual 21 Judgments are in those four books. The Visions are describing EVENTS in those four books.

    For Example:

    1. Rev. 12 is the Woman Fleeing, well that would happen at day 1260, or the Middle of the week, and God will protect her for the full 1260 days until Jesus Returns. (Rev. ch 6) The Remnant being martyred in Rev. 12:17 is the Martyrs under the Alter in the 5th Seal.
    2. Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ going forth to Conquer, or the Beast arising out of the Sea. That also happens in the Middle of the week, thus it starts out in Rev. CH. 6 also, when he Conquers Jerusalem he becomes the Beast for 42 months.
    3. Rev. 14 seems to be both the Rapture and the End Time Harvest. Jesus sitting on a Cloud in verse 14 thrusts in a cycle to harvest, then in verses 19 and 20 he thrusts in another cycle and places those in the Wine-press of Gods Wrath. (I think the 144,000 is All Israel in the Wilderness, he will bring them with him.)
    4. Rev. 17 is the Harlot being Judged or ALL FALSE RELIGION being Judged. This elaborate plan starts in Rev. ch. 6 also. He chases Israel for 1260 days, he kills the Remnant Church, he will destroy Islam and all religions at the point in time he goes forth to Conquer !!
    5. Rev. 18 is Babylon (World Governance under Satan) or the World getting pelted by the 21 Judgments of God. So thus it must needs also start in Rev. ch. 6 at the Midway point. The First Seal is Jesus bringing forth Judgment. It is all four chapters, 6, 8, 9 and 16. IT IS DONE.
    6. Rev. 11 is likewise the VISION of the Two-witnesses, they come forth before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (Middle of the week/First Seal) so says Malachi 4:5-6. Thus they die just before the Beast dies(2nd Woe vs. 7th Vial). I think this is the 1335 in Daniel ch. 12.
    7. Rev. 15 is a Vision of the Angels readying the Seven Vials in Heaven. Not much more to be honest. But this would be happening right before the 3rd Woe (7th Trumpet) is sounded.
    8. Rev. 10 is a Vision that is speaking about the Secret Things about t be brought to pass after the Seventh Trumpet is Sounded. John is told not to reveal the things.
    So, as you can see, the book of Revelation is/was Confused by God, IMHO, on purpose so only us Saints can understand it, if we try hard and pray for UNDERSTANDING.

    Please do not think Revelation is on Chronological order, it is not. Only 6, 8, 9 and 16 are in order.

    I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me
     
  9. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    You are way off here, way, way off. The 1st 3.5 years are not about peace. The church is raptured and then the seals start. The 1st seal opens and he who rides the white horse rides to conquer. Then peace is taken from the earth at the red horse. Then the Great Tribulation happens within the 1st 3.5 years. Not a peaceful time..............until they say peace, peace and sudden destruction comes at the day of the Lord.
     
  10. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 10 is what we can call a parenthesis ....in essence it say only that John will be presented other things to prophecy ....

    That is right that Revelation 12:6 concern something that will happen FEW MOMENT BEFORE THE WAR in Heaven.

    The 1,260 days of the Second Half of the Tribulation will begin at the moment when the woman will flee in the wilderness ....just few moment before that Satan will be cast out of Heaven...


    DAY 1 of the 7 Years will begin AT the FIRST Trumpet plague [Revelation 8] ....the two witnesses will prophecy DURING THE FIRST 6 TRUMPETS PLAGUES.....They will be killed BEFORE the 7 TH TRUMPET...


    The 7 TH Trumpet will "sound" right in the middle of the 7 Years....
    In Clear :
    From the First Trumpet through the end of the 6TH Trumpet [events] there will be 1,260 days ------>The exact time that the 2 witnesses will prophecy during 1,260 days.

    WRONG,.... that will happen AFTER the killing of the 2 Witnesses.

    The killing of the 2 witnesses BEFORE the 7 TH Trumpet will reveal for those in the know who is the Beast who ascendedth out of the Bottomless pit...that the whole Earth shall wonder.

    The woman will flee in the wilderness Revelation 12:6 ....not long after the killing of the two witnesses by the Beast who ascendeth out of the bottomless pit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    None of the trumpets sound until after the Abomination of Desolation is setup to be worshiped. Which would put those beginning somewhere in the middle of the 7 years.

    Before then, during most of the first half of the 7 years, the Jews and the world will be saying peace and safety.
     
  12. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    The 7 Th Trumpet will have sounded [in Heaven] in Revelation 11:15 before that Satan will be cast out of Heaven Revelation 12:7....and the beginning of the 42 months reign of the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  13. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    The church is Raptured before the 70th Week starts, so we disagree. The Anti-Christ comes forth in the Middle of the week just like Dan. 9:27 says. What do you think taking Peace from the Earth means? It means what is happening in the First Seal is going forth to Conquer. What happened when Hitler went forth to Conquer? He took Poland, a few other places, then War was declared. No doubt this man goes forth to Conquer in a blitzkrieg, some will try to come against him, and he will have to defeat them in Seal Two, except that will not be as fast a work, thus Peace is taken from the whole world. That doesn't mean when Jerusalem was getting Conquered FIRST that it wasn't war also, it just means it spreads to the WHOLE WORLD..Peace is taken from the WORLD..STEP 2.

    The full Seven Years is Jacobs Troubles. The 1st 3.5 years is the PEACE/SECURITY although a fake deceptive peace, its still peace. Then comes Gods Wrath, Jesus opens the First Seal and the Jewish peoples see the Greatest TROUBLES EVER SEEN....These Troubles # Greatest Troubles, only last until they are killed (2/3 are killed) or the other 1/3 are in the Wilderness, protected by God. The Beast is going to be like Hitler, hes going to try and kill all the Jews except the False Prophet. Hes going to do this fast, but the 1/3 will be saved because they heeded their Messiah's warning.

    So this GREATEST TROUBLES will not last very long, God protects Israel in the Wilderness for 1260 Days, and the rest are killed fairly quickly I would assume.

    The last 3.5 Years is GODS WRATH on mankind.

    The Day of the Lord is a 3.5 year period, NOT ONE DAY. Go look up every mention in the old testament and you will see, its a VERY LONG PERIOD of time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  14. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Are we there yet?

    Have we got Revelation in chronological order?
     
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    When the two witnesses are killed, the beast reigns 42 months unhampered by their presence.

    The 7th trumpet sounds, the war in heaven, and Satan cast down to earth. Up until then, the AOD image placed in the temple is inanimate. Once Satan is cast down, the false prophet will perform a seemingly miracle making the AOD image appear to come alive and speak. But it will be Satan incarnating the image, a lying miracle.

    _______________________________________________________________________________
    The 7th trumpet, like the 7th seal, does not chronologically follow the other trumpets, i.e does not chronologically follow the 6th trumpet.

    Satan, when he is cast down, is seen as the falling star in Revelation 9:1, who at some point will open the bottomless pit, and release the flesh tormenting locust, the 5th trumpet.

    The first four trumpets will likely take place while the two witnesses battle the beast, as the Jews flee into the wilderness.

    There are 75 days (from day 1185 to day 1260) which the two witnesses battle with the beast, so it is likely that the first four trumpets take place during that 75 days, which would account for the world exchanging presents over the two witnesses deaths, when they are overcome by the beast.

    And resulting in Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

    _______________________________________________________________

    day 1...........day 1185 AOD....two witnesses vs beast... Jews flee......day 1260 two witnesses killed..... 3 1/2 days....day 1263.5 the two witnesses ascend... 42 months left beast rule absent the two witnesses begins.

    day 1....... day 1263.5 two witnesses ascend, 7th trumpet sounds ......war in heaven takes place, Satan cast down......a time, times, half times left..... the AOD speaking, demanding worship begins.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  16. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Of course, they will be dead Revelation 11:7-14 ...resurrected ..and will have ascended to Heaven ...some moment before the beginning of the 42 months reign of the Beast Revelation 13.

    Yes,all that WILL happen as the THIRD WOE ----> AFTER THE KILLING OF THE 2 Witnesses ... and their ascension to heaven ...Revelation 11:7-14


    That is not Satan who is the angel who have the key of the Bottomless Pit .
    The Angel who have the key to open the Bottomless pit Mentioned in Revelation 9... is ALSO the angel who will look Satan into the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years Mentioned in Revelation 20.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The star (angel) in Revelation 9 is seen falling. Which indicates that the angel has done something very wrong.

    Differently, the angel in Revelation 20 is one of the good angel.

    Having the key to the bottomless pit, the key imo is metaphoric for having the means to open it.
     
  18. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Falling from Heaven in [Rev 9] and coming down out of Heaven in [Rev 20] are synonymous... An angel on a mission that God have send from Heaven

    Or to close it...Revelation 20.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Kinda like coming down the stairs in your house is the same as falling down the stairs in your house?
     
  20. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem for a flying angel....[Rev 9:1] and [Rev 20:1 ] is about an angel send by God...from Heaven...with the mission to open the Bottomless Pit in Rev. 9 and later in Rev 20 with the mission to lock Satan for 1,000 years.

    Hint:
    The man of sin ,the son of perdition who shall deceive the whole Earth is actually RESTRAINED INTO THE Bottomless Pit. ---->Revelation 17:8 ---Revelation 9:11 Angel Abaddon is ----The Beast that the whole World shall wonder -will be released...at the 5th trumpet .-

    Revelation 17:8
    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the Bottomless Pit, and shall go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [they] whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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