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Featured Putting events in Revelation in chronological order?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
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  2. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  3. ScottySAM

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    This might help determine the sequence in which things were revealed to John, but it does not necessarily lead to the sequence in which those things would eventually take place.
     
  4. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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  5. ScottySAM

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    Since the signs in chapter 6 match the Olivet Discourse, and the events described in the Olivet Discourse came about in AD 70, wouldn't that mean that chapter 6 describes the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70?
     
  6. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Revelation chapter 6 clearly proves that interpretation of the Discourse couldn't possibly be correct.

    Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

    The events connected with 70 AD did not involve the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hiding themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains, where they then wished the mountains and rocks, to fall on them, and hide them from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb

    Even if that's not meant to be understood in the literal sense, it still doesn't describe what took place during 70 AD.
     
  7. vinsight4u

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  8. BABerean2

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    Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.

    Below you will find the events of 70 AD and the future Second Coming of Christ.



    Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


    Luk 21:5  Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 

    Luk 21:6  "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 

    (Mat 24:2  And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )





    Luk 21:7  So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?" 

    (Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

    ( Mar 13:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 

    Mar 13:4  "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?") 





    Luk 21:8  And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them. 

    (Mat 24:5  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )



    Luk 21:9  But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

    (Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.) 



    Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution



    Luk 21:10  Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 

    (Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



    Luk 21:11  And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 

    (Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



    Luk 21:12  But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake. 

    (Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



    Luk 21:13  But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 

    Luk 21:14  Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 

    Luk 21:15  for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 

    Luk 21:16  You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 

    Luk 21:17  And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. 

    (Mat 24:10  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )



    Luk 21:18  But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 

    Luk 21:19  By your patience possess your souls. 

    (Mat 24:13  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.) 



    Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem



    Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 

    (Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 



    Luk 21:21  Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 

    (Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.) 



    Luk 21:22  For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

    Luk 21:23  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 

    (Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! )



    Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 
    (Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)


    The Coming of the Son of Man



    Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

    (Mat 24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.) 



    Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 

    Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

    (Mat 24:30  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.) 



    Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." 

    (Mat 24:33  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



    From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

    "6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

    7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


    Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
    Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


    John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.




    The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


    Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the same reference to flee in the second verse in each Gospel.



    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  9. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  10. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Revelation is not in chronological order and is not meant to be put in chronological order.

    If there is any chronological order in Revelation it can only be as loose as:

    1. The church is persecuted, yet protected in this age.
    2. Before the end the church will be greatly oppressed and destroyed.
    3. Jesus comes back to judge and save.
    4. God's people live with Jesus forever.
     
  11. iamlamad

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    Ah! this is easy: just read it as given! It is written in Chronological order.

    However, it is not quite that simple! John has some parentheses, but did not use any marks to show them. AT least two of these parentheses were history to John, events that happened before John saw the vision. Then, other parentheses are future to the time John was seeing this vision. The only way to detect these is by study, prayer and praying much in the Holy Spirit.

    And example of a parenthesis that most people miss.

    Rev. 11
    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

    6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

    10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

    11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

    12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

    13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    The writing above that is in red is written as a parenthesis. For chronology, read the blue:

    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    John is right at the midpoint here in chapter 11, and in chapters 11 through 13 will write about (and begin each count) 5 different events that will happen just before, right at, and just after, the exact midpoint.

    The 42 month count begins in verse 2. The 1260 day count begins in verse 3. The next two counts will begin in chapter 12. The two witnesses begin there testimony right where John first sees them, which is just 3 1/2 days before the man of sin will enter the temple and the abomination will take place. They testify for 1260 days, which will take them to just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. they are killed and lay dead for those 3 1/2 days, then rise up at the 7th vial, when all the Old Testament saints rise. The earthquake when the two rise, is the same earthquake as at the 7th vial.

    If people don't recognize verses 4-13 as a parenthesis, they imagine the two witnesses testify in the first half of the week. What John does is take the reader down a side journey of the last half of the week, with only the two witnesses. Then he snaps right back to the exact point he left off: just before the midpoint.

    In chapter 12, we see another parenthesis: the first five verses.

    1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

    5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    For chronology, we would read:

    Rev 11:
    15 And the seventh angel sounded [exact midpoint marked] ; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshiped God,

    17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

    18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    In chapter 13, John repeats what he did in 11: he writes the chronological verses, then goes into a parenthesis for the rest of the chapter; another "side journey" down the last half of the week with the two Beasts. But again, in chapter 14, is right back on chronology, shortly after the midpoint.

     
  12. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    You said that right! But probably few if any are correct!
     
  13. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Are there still martyrs being added from the church age? I speak of the 5th seal. Is that not current events?
     
  14. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I have always thought, if a person is martyred by their belief in Jesus, it was certainly great tribulation for them! How could it get any greater? They cannot be killed twice or three times!
     
  15. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    You forgot even some history mixed in!
     
  16. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Personally... I believe some events are historical... like the dragon being cast out after Jesus returned to heaven... Jesus is referred to as “The Boy”... or “Child”

    Some events overlap...

    A big give away is the book of Joel and Zechariah...

    They dovetail in.

    Much Old Testament prophecy coincides and expounds on Revelation...

    To be direct...

    I believe the 7 heads are the nations that rise again an Israel and the eighth is no exception... Per Joel 3, Daniel and the Torah...

    Egypt
    Assyria
    Babylon
    Persia
    Greece
    Rome
    Ottoman

    And beast to come
     
  17. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    When John was writing revelation, 5 kings of the beast had already fallen, and the 6th king was currently in power. The 7th king had not yet come.


    This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
    Revelation 17:9-10
     
  18. Waterwerx

    Waterwerx Well-Known Member

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    Chapters 12 through 19 run parallel with chapters 6 through 11.
     
  19. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Rev, 12:1-5 is a tiny history lesson about the birth of Christ. It is a parenthesis.

    The battle in heaven is written in chapter 12, and immediately after the kingdoms of the world are taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ. And that is when this battle for the skies above earth with take place. In my mind, Adam's lease on earth ends (6000 years) and suddenly Satan has no more legal hold on earth. So he loses all the kingdoms and then is cast down from the heavenlies.
     
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