Putin at UN: We need a 'genuinely broad alliance against terrorism, just like the one against Hitler

[LivingWordUnity]

To this effect, Putin said, "Far from learning from others' mistakes, we keep on repeating them. It suffices to look at Middle East and North Africa...Rather than bringing about reform, foreign interference has resulted in...violence, poverty, and social disaster."

"The power vacuum [in the Middle East] … has started to be filled by militants and terrorists...We think it is an enormous mistake to not cooperate with the Syrian government and its armed forces. No one but Assad's armed forces and the Kurdish militias are truly fighting ISIS and other terrorists in Syria."

"On the basis of international law, we must create a genuinely broad international coalition against terrorism," he added. "Naturally, the modern countries are expected to play a key role in this coalition."

Putin then proposed that the world coordinate its actions to fight ISIS based on the principles in the UN charter. This was most likely a jab at the US, whose arming of some Syrian rebels Putin denounced as a violation of the charter in his interview with Charlie Rose that aired Sunday.

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Related news:
The Washington Post: Putin chides the West for fostering violence in the Middle East
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[heatedmonk]

And yet in Syria he's supporting Assad. A terrorist who slaughters his own people.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

And yet in Syria he's supporting Assad. A terrorist who slaughters his own people.

That rehashed propaganda has blinded people so that they don't see that ISIS is the real enemy. Do you know anything about ISIS? Assad has been fighting against them this whole time. At one point, he had them on the run, and they would have been destroyed if it were not for the United States' obsession with trying to bring Assad down. In other words, the US is largely to blame for the explosive rise of ISIS, so it has no moral high ground to accuse Assad of doing evil.
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[SolomonVII]

And yet in Syria he's supporting Assad. A terrorist who slaughters his own people.

Assad is likely not of a very different mindset than Putin himself.

This is not to say that the society based on civil society, America, has not supported dictators too. This had been the American policy of realism, held by both Democrats and Republicans, until Bush and the neo-liberal/neo-conservative response of deposing the thugs in the hope that the region might be mature for democracy. Recall that Obama carried on this policy too, with his support of the Arab Spring, and even the Muslim Brotherhood, as he let America's strategic allies fall.
The MB of course are the granddaddy of all Islamist, from El quada to ISIS, but the Western non-conservatives have been consistent in brushing off that truth as Islamophobia, even if true. That is the mindset that Obama represents.

When it was America's policy of realism to support dictators in order to ward off worse things, opposition in America frothed at the mouth at the hypocrisy of it all. When it was America's policy to pull the rug out from the feet of dictator's, opposition in America frothed at the mouth at the hypocrisy of it all; or just frothed in general.

Putin is not so compromised. He has very little to fear of internal opposition from Russians, and he is not of a tradition that has any qualms against dictators like Assad killing and torturing people until they acquiesce.

The Islamist tradition has always been deep and strong in Syria too. Assad's father hand no qualms of killing 30 thousand of them to put down the last uprising. It is not the kind of thing that got much press though, way back when, before the idea that democracy might be a good idea for the ME sprung up, and then fizzled.

 

[SolomonVII]

...

 

[S.ilvio]

And yet in Syria he's supporting Assad. A terrorist who slaughters his own people.

Citing the cowardly Obama lie won't quash ISIS.

Putin has the moral high ground here and Obama is too sniffy to join him...

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Did someone at the U.N. shout "Godwin!"?? Just curious.

 

[heatedmonk]

Citing the cowardly Obama lie won't quash ISIS.

Putin has the moral high ground here and Obama is too sniffy to join him...

Ah, so Assad hasn't killed his own people? Yes or no?

 

[heatedmonk]

I don't think any honest American would say our government is lily white and pure in its exercise of power in America and internationally.
However, what is under discussion here is Assad and his exercise of power as leader of Syria. Some would like to make it out that he is lily white and that it is Obama's "lies" that claim he has murdered his own people. Not with his own hands of course, or maybe he has but I don't know that, but that he has indeed murdered Syrians.

That is the issue in this thread. Not America's or any other country and their political past.

Assad is likely not of a very different mindset than Putin himself.

This is not to say that the society based on civil society, America, has not supported dictators too. This had been the American policy of realism, held by both Democrats and Republicans, until Bush and the neo-liberal/neo-conservative response of deposing the thugs in the hope that the region might be mature for democracy. Recall that Obama carried on this policy too, with his support of the Arab Spring, and even the Muslim Brotherhood, as he let America's strategic allies fall.
The MB of course are the granddaddy of all Islamist, from El quada to ISIS, but the Western non-conservatives have been consistent in brushing off that truth as Islamophobia, even if true. That is the mindset that Obama represents.

When it was America's policy of realism to support dictators in order to ward off worse things, opposition in America frothed at the mouth at the hypocrisy of it all. When it was America's policy to pull the rug out from the feet of dictator's, opposition in America frothed at the mouth at the hypocrisy of it all; or just frothed in general.

Putin is not so compromised. He has very little to fear of internal opposition from Russians, and he is not of a tradition that has any qualms against dictators like Assad killing and torturing people until they acquiesce.

The Islamist tradition has always been deep and strong in Syria too. Assad's father hand no qualms of killing 30 thousand of them to put down the last uprising. It is not the kind of thing that got much press though, way back when, before the idea that democracy might be a good idea for the ME sprung up, and then fizzled.

 

[heatedmonk]

Did someone at the U.N. shout "Godwin!"?? Just curious.

No. Being that Putin had a point and Godwin is an Internet meme.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

No. Being that Putin had a point and Godwin is an Internet meme.

What? The stupid Godwin thing doesn't count in real life?

 

[SolomonVII]

I don't think any honest American would say our government is lily white and pure in its exercise of power in America and internationally.
However, what is under discussion here is Assad and his exercise of power as leader of Syria. Some would like to make it out that he is lily white and that it is Obama's "lies" that claim he has murdered his own people. Not with his own hands of course, or maybe he has but I don't know that, but that he has indeed murdered Syrians.

That is the issue in this thread. Not America's or any other country and their political past.

Do some believe that people are claiming that it is "Obama's lies" that castigate Assad into the role of murderous dictator?
Anyone who watches the news even superficially would realize that Assad used chemical weapons on the Syrian people. Obama drew his lines in the sand, and ultimately did nothing. The whole civil war was predicated on Assad sending the tortured remains of a young teenaged boy back to his parents.

Few if any here would be denying that, and any who do are just not credible, and can safely be thrown into the 'waste of time' pile of posts that are better left unread.

As for the role that America plays in this thread, it is indeed pertinent to take note of how as America's influence iwanes and sputters, Putin is eclipsing Obama as the one providing the moral leadership of the world. It is Putin and not American leadership that is at the UN building a coalition of the willing against what Russia might define as the axis of evil in the ME, the modern version of the Nazis, according to the title of the thread.

It is pertinent to note that for the first time since the end of the Cold War, or even since the end of WWII, it is Russia that is providing that kind of moral leadership on the world stage, and America is relegated to the sidelines, or even the nose bleed section of the bleachers, and is about as completely irrelevant as any nation can be to the most critical issues of the day.

I think that that is a very interesting turn of events and very relevant to the theme of this thread actually. This is a new era and a changing of the guard that we are entering into, where the thug-ocracy of the new Russia is emerging as the moral voice of the 'New World Order', and America drifts further and further into irrelevance under Obama's watch.

 

[heatedmonk]

Do some really make the claim that it is Obama's lies that make such a claim?

Yes, they do. At least in this thread they have.

Anyone who watches the news even superficially would realize that Assad used chemical weapons on Syrians. Obama drew his lines in the sand, and ultimately did nothing. The whole civil war was predicated on Assad sending the tortured remains of a young teenaged boy back to his parents.

Didn't you hear? That's Obama propaganda.

Few if any here would be denying that, and any who do are just not credible, and can safely be thrown into the 'waste of time' pile of posts that are better left unread.

That or set the determined one's who serve no purpose but to bait and troll to ignore. I find that makes for the spirit of Christ forum to become more like that. Because those dedicated to the darkness are no longer visible.

As for the role that America plays in this thread, it is indeed pertinent to take note of how as America's influence is waning, Putin is eclipsing Obama as the one providing the moral leadership of the world.

God help us if that ever is a fact. Especially when it is a fact that Russia is arming the murderer of his own people, aka Assad. That isn't an example of moral leadership for the world.

Obama is a travesty but I wouldn't throw smooches toward Putin's backside because Obama fails as a president.

It is Putin and not American leadership that is at the UN building a coalition of the willing against what Russia might define as the axis of evil in the ME.

That isn't actually accomplished when Russia gives Russian weapons to Assad.

It is pertinent to note that for the first time since the end of the Cold War, or even since the end of WWII, it is Russia that is providing that kind of leadership on the world stage, and America is relegated to the sidelines, or even the nose bleed section of the bleachers, and about as completely irrelevant as any nation can be to the most critical issues of the day.

You should write for Pravda. No American sucks up to Russia like that when Putin is a worse failure of a leader than Obama could ever be.
Chechnya was what?
Maybe do a search for "atrocities under Putin" so as to realize how uninformed you are.

I think that that is a very interesting turn of events and very relevant to the theme of this thread actually. This is a new era and a changing of the guard that we are entering into, where the thugocracy of the new Russia is emerging as the moral voice of the New World Order, and America drifts further into irrelevance.

Riiiight. Have a good day.

 

[MikeK]

So we're clear, how many ISIS leaders have met their deaths by strikes from Obama's forces, and how many from Putin's? And for further clarity, is it Obama's Unites States or Putin's Russia that is arming North Korea and Iran?

Putin is not fighting ISIS, he is building an alliance with evil states. Most civilized countries want nothing to do with Russia, especially since the Ukrain land-grab. Putin's eggs-in-one-basket energy policies have resulted in Russia's economy tanking, so they're seeking to ramp-up their defence exports.

 

[S.ilvio]

Ah, so Assad hasn't killed his own people? Yes or no?

Yeah, he's lived an angelic existance, tending to lost puppies and fixing broken bird's wings.

Come on.

Seriously...

 

[S.ilvio]

So we're clear, how many ISIS leaders have met their deaths by strikes from Obama's forces, and how many from Putin's? And for further clarity, is it Obama's Unites States or Putin's Russia that is arming North Korea and Iran?

Putin is not fighting ISIS, he is building an alliance with evil states. Most civilized countries want nothing to do with Russia, especially since the Ukrain land-grab. Putin's eggs-in-one-basket energy policies have resulted in Russia's economy tanking, so they're seeking to ramp-up their defence exports.

Putin is willing to get his hands dirty in Syria and do our dirty work for us in exterminating the ISIS savages.

We should be thanking him, but instead the West takes the 'Moral High Ground'

Emperor Nero ain't got nothing on Obama and Cameron...

 

[heatedmonk]

Yeah, he's lived an angelic existance, tending to lost puppies and fixing broken bird's wings.

Come on.

Seriously...

No kidding. I'm sure there's a no kill shelter named after him somewhere in Syria. Right?

 

[heatedmonk]

Putin is willing to get his hands dirty in Syria and do our dirty work for us in exterminating the ISIS savages.

We should be thanking him, but instead the West takes the 'Moral High Ground'

Emperor Nero ain't got nothing on Obama and Cameron...

It would be sad if you were serious. But since America is fighting and killing ISIS and Putin isn't willing to get his hands dirty arming a leader that slaughters his own people unless there's a strategic reason to Russia's benefit, I'll just leave this here.


Wall Street Journal 9/24:Russia’s Syria Strategy: An Opportunistic Pursuit of National Interests
In its return the Middle East, Moscow hopes to revive its own economy and challenge U.S. influence in the region

 

[S.ilvio]

If you toed the line, Assad left you alone, as did his father. People of all faiths and none living a decent life, with education and career opportunities. This relatively nice life was protected by a well equipped army.

It baffles me how some Liberals think we can impose democracy on a region of the world where it has no history or tradition of existing.

We, the Liberal West, cause upheavel in Syria, Egypt among other countries and within a few years, whack job Sunni's are causing havoc. While the same Liberals who were having a party a few years ago and crying into their champagne and caviar, wondering how did it all go so wrong...?

 

[heatedmonk]

Ah, I get it. So all those people Assad slaughtered didn't toe the line and thus deserved to be killed.
Meanwhile, nothing speaks so foolishly as that which supports a bloody murdering dictator while condemning democracy, while self-identifying as a member of the American Democratic party.