Purgatory - thoughts?

[Albion]

What you're saying is that, just because they came up with a name for it on a certain date, that's when it was made doctrine.

No. The concept was created at that time, drawing inspiration from the statements of a scattering of church leaders in earlier times which dealt with only the sketchiest of ideas about some sort of experience after death that is not heaven or hell.

But Purgatory is a completely fleshed out concept that explains what it is, who goes there, what happens to them there, why they go there, how long it lasts, how that suffering may be moderated by the petitions OR indulgences of the faithful in this life, what justifies shortening the experience (the Treasury of Merit which requires its own definition, etc.) and more. It is not "Purgatory" simply to say there is a place in the afterlife where you get purified. That is like saying the meaning of "America" is it's a piece of soil, period.

 

[Root of Jesse]

No. The concept was created at that time, drawing inspiration from the statements of a scattering of church leaders in earlier times which dealt with only the sketchiest of ideas about some sort of experience after death that is not heaven or hell.

I know that's how you see it, but that's not the way it is. But that's just Reformationist.

But Purgatory is a completely fleshed out concept that explains what it is, who goes there, what happens to them there, why they go there, how long it lasts, how that suffering may be moderated by the petitions OR indulgences of the faithful in this life, what justifies shortening the experience (the Treasury of Merit which requires its own definition, etc.) and more. It is not "Purgatory" simply to say there is a place in the afterlife where you get purified. That is like saying the meaning of "America" is it's a piece of soil, period.

Well, I posted what Purgatory is, according to the CCC. Regardless of what theologians or would-be theologians have said it is. Regardless of what some people think it is.
In my own case, and those I know, people just hope to get to purgatory, because they know they'll get to heaven. I, and we, don't speculate how many days off we can get by going on a pilgrimage. We do pray for those in Purgatory, as the Bible says we should pray for the dead. Those dead referenced were sinners, and merited hell for their sin. Prayer doesn't help anyone in hell, so these prayers were for those who died in friendship with God, but were not pure, as required to enter heaven.
So you're criticizing what some people believe, which is your right, I suppose, not what the Church actually teaches, or taught. And yeah, I know there were some pretty powerful people in the hierarchy who were telling people that they could get time off in purgatory if they could see fit to give more money.
We see the same thing today, where German bishops are trying to subvert the pure teaching of the Church by speculating and advocating a married priesthood and reception of communion by remarried Catholics who didn't seek annulment. And many other things. We also see talk of schism because of some of these things. But they aren't in the Catechism and aren't Church teaching.

 

[Albion]

I know that's how you see it, but that's not the way it is. But that's just Reformationist.

I'm taking that harrumpf to be some kind of concession speech. You have a nice day, RoJ.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I'm taking that harrumpf to be some kind of concession speech. You have a nice day, RoJ.

Searching for somewhere I said 'harrumpf'.
But what I'm saying is that you need to know what the church teaches, not how some people interpret it.
I mean, I've heard of parishes that have a very nice recipe for communion hosts. They contain eggs, sugar and yeast. That's not what the church teaches. But you could have experienced that same church and seen that, and now you'd say 'look! The church has changed her teaching', and you'd be just as wrong as you are now.
I love how you sidestepped when I provided the real teaching of the Church, which says nothing of indulgences in connection with Purgatory. Again, that's just reformationist.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Protestants have changed more ?

And you agree that "Purgatory" is a possible interpretation, consistent with Scripture? Such was evidently the understanding of the earliest Church, yes ?

No, as the Gospel of Pauline Justification renders it as being not needed!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No, as the Gospel of Pauline Justification renders it as being not needed!

All of Scripture indicates this. Not only not p. needed, but it is misleading multitudes apparently, causing much harm and distraction from truth.

 

[Erik Nelson]

All of Scripture indicates this. Not only not p. needed, but it is misleading multitudes apparently, causing much harm and distraction from truth.

No, as the Gospel of Pauline Justification renders it as being not needed!

same saint Paul as 1 Corinthians 3:15 ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

same saint Paul as 1 Corinthians 3:15 ?

What ?
Can you clarify?

 

[Erik Nelson]

What ?
Can you clarify?

Catholic apologists cite 1 Corinthians 3:15 in support for the notion of purgatory, some sort of fiery burning away of sin prior to admittance into heaven

 

[Root of Jesse]

Catholic apologists cite 1 Corinthians 3:15 in support for the notion of purgatory, some sort of fiery burning away of sin prior to admittance into heaven

Exactly. Some people think all the trappings that have been supposed are part of the doctrine, but not really.
I am experiencing the death of my wife, and some in my family have traditionally prayed about a 45 minute liturgy every day after a loved one's death for 40 days. So, in this case, taking the burning away of sin prior to admittance into Heaven with all the other practices people think are necessary to the idea of purgatory is like praying these 40 days devotions for the soul of a loved one.
Much of it is not wrong, just as praying for the dead is not wrong at all, but some practices surrounding them are not doctrinally necessary.
Purgatory is meant to be exactly what 1 Corinthians 3:15 says.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Catholic apologists cite 1 Corinthians 3:15 in support for the notion of purgatory, some sort of fiery burning away of sin prior to admittance into heaven

So then , in answer to your previous query, no. The Apostle Paul would have exposed that, not agreed with it, likewise all the Apostles and teachers in union with the apostles in the first century.