Purgatory: Scriptural or not... or worse?

[chilehed]

I'm saying that even if we agree that it speaks of something that relates to the afterlife, it's far from being a proof of the existence of a Purgatory.

So you agree that passage explicitly speaks of a process which occurs after death, in which one may suffer loss and yet be saved; that there is no suffering or loss in heaven, so this process cannot be taking place in heaven; and that there is no escape from hell, so it can't be happening in hell either.

And yet you disagree that therefore there is a third state, in which this purging of the works of wood, hay and straw takes place, and only those bound for heaven enter this third state.

What other conclusion is possible?

 

[Albion]

I said "EVEN IF" we agree that it refers to the afterlife....

The idea that it does is not proven.

However, the bigger point is that there's nothing there other than "fire" to link it to a Purgatory.

If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire." 1 Cor 3: 10-15

 

[Vicomte13]

No such place as Purgatory, therefore your supposition is in error.

Your logic is flawed. Have a nice Easter.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Whats that have to do with the topic here--Purgatory?

It is relevant to the topic only to the originators of the false doctrine of men.

 

[AspieforGod]

I agree I don't believe Purgatory is Scriptural. Jesus never made mention of it in the occasions He mentioned Hell. It's not in the Protestant Bible but I've heard it's in the Catholic Apocrypha. I'd be interested to know if any mention of it is in the Jewish/Hebrew Scriptures.

I think it was some misguided medieval time thinking or perhaps even before that's been stirred ip by popular imagination and art to trouble many hearts and souls. A very saddening and damaging effect.

Put all your faith and trust in Christ and none by our own merits to enter into the gates with praise.

Shalom.

I don't see the idea of purgatory in the Scriptures.

It seems to me to be an invention of humans who wanted to make a way for sinful people to get to heaven, bypassing the work of the Cross.

Thus, the idea of purgatory is not only non-Biblical, but ANTI-Christ.

If we can add to the work of Christ, by paying for "some" of our sins in purgatory,
then why can we not pay for all of them, eventually, in hellfire, and at some future point in eternity, escape hell?

Add to this, the idea of canonization of saints.
The Scriptures imply not at all, that some Christians who have died have achieved a higher "sainthood" (by going straight to heaven, and skipping purgatory) than those of us who are in Christ, here on earth.

The Bible calls all Christians, saints.

The ideas of canonized saints and purgatory are interdependent, and I can find no support for either in the Scriptures.

What say you?

 

[JIMINZ]

Denomination doesn't matter, rather if you follow the apostoles doctrine and the scripture and repent, baptized in Jesus name, Holy Ghost

That's all well and good, but when someone makes a blanket statement like that, I would like to know what his full belief is on the matter, he did all but say Protestantism is a false Religion, when Protestantism is not a Religion at all it is a Denomination within the Religion of Christianity.

There are some people who tell you all they know just by speaking a few words.

 

[JIMINZ]

None. You can't buy people out of what does not exist.

However, purgation, that is, the changing of our very natures by the cleansing fires of God' love - now that's a different story. You don't do that with money (a Roman corruption which created the Reformation). You do that through prayers and fasting for your loved ones who have passed into the next world. Your prayers, in some way known only to God, help them in their theosis (becoming like Christ and assuming His nature) and their ultimate refinement so that they achieve union with God.

Give me a break!
You really believe that?

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

I don't see the idea of purgatory in the Scriptures.

It seems to me to be an invention of humans who wanted to make a way for sinful people to get to heaven, bypassing the work of the Cross.

Thus, the idea of purgatory is not only non-Biblical, but ANTI-Christ.

If we can add to the work of Christ, by paying for "some" of our sins in purgatory,
then why can we not pay for all of them, eventually, in hellfire, and at some future point in eternity, escape hell?

Add to this, the idea of canonization of saints.
The Scriptures imply not at all, that some Christians who have died have achieved a higher "sainthood" (by going straight to heaven, and skipping purgatory) than those of us who are in Christ, here on earth.

The Bible calls all Christians, saints.

The ideas of canonized saints and purgatory are interdependent, and I can find no support for either in the Scriptures.

What say you?

As I see it purgatory is the satanic lie that was created by the Romans who's eternal desire was and remains to rule the world. And they found a means nearly 600 years after they put Jesus to death at the demand of the Jewish temple's leadership. To continue to rule the world forever body, mind, and spirit, the very government that killed Jesus for his teachings created a church to uphold their own facsimile using his reputation as a means. And still they in the course of that denied Jesus actual divinity and mission again when they invented the lie of purgatory. A false place with no foundation in the actual teachings of Christ. A Roman pagan invention that denies all he died for on the cross in taking away the sins of the world, by claiming when the faithful to the church of the Romans die they have to go to a Hell that has an escape clause and burn off all the sins they carry with them unto death.

The greed of the Romans was known world wide. Their conquest of peoples and cultures leaving a bloody legacy in testament to that. And that's why shortly after the false church was invented , and the false teaching of purgatory took fearful hold in the minds of the unfortunate believers in the church, because that is what they avow. Faith in the church , not Christ nor God, the "way out" was invented as a means of early escape.

PAY to get out! This was what are to this day called Indulgences. Pay money to the church and some backwards minded loyalist to Satanic doctrine will promise you that the soul of your loved one is now free from Hell that is the Purgatory with an escape clause.

It is obscene. The idol worship, the false teaching that is the Catholic doctrine. The Roman's invention is everything Jesus condemned and came to save the world from.

 

[Light of the East]

You are the second poster to say that, but OSAS actually does not have much of anything to do with Purgatory.

Well, I'm not the one who originally posted that. I just responded to it.

 

[Light of the East]

I believe in the world church it is sinful, contrary to all SCRIPTURE.

In the body of CHRIST, we are all called saints every day, and /as/ over and over and over again IN SCRIPTURE.
And priests, all of us in CHRIST. (not man-made opposed to JESUS).

Really? How in the world do you get that, given that God gave us the priesthood?

 

[Light of the East]

Most of the pagan ideas, in fact all of the pagan ideas,
brought into the world church,
were invented ...... by men and demons....

Let us all get to and adhere/ Stick with GOD'S WORD in all things.

Really? Then why aren't you either Orthodox or Catholic, seeing that these two churches are the only place you can do what Jesus commanded us to do and eat the Body and drink the Blood of the Lord?

You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. Now repent and get thee to an Orthodox parish.

 

[Light of the East]

Just like how purgatory was made up by men and the notion of salvation through the Eucharist also man made. I do not follow Luther or any other man, I follow Jesus

Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood... ye have not life. Jesus of Nazareth in the Gospel of John

 

[Light of the East]

Give me a break!
You really believe that?

The Church, which is the "Pillar and ground of truth" teaches it, therefore I believe it.

 

[Light of the East]

It is obscene. The idol worship, the false teaching that is the Catholic doctrine. The Roman's invention is everything Jesus condemned and came to save the world from.

I wouldn't call it "obscene" but rather heterodox, that is, it is the truth twisted into an error. There most certainly is purgation after death, just not a place called "Purgatory."

There is no idol worship in either the Roman or the Orthodox Church. Idols are something of creation (like the ugly elephant "god" Ganesh) which is called God. That doesn't happen in either Orthodoxy or Catholicism. We know who God is and we know what a saint is and we know the distinction.

Rome has the Eucharist, which Jesus said is the source of eternal life. Your denomination, whoever they are, does not, therefore, you are at best missing something important.

 

[Light of the East]

My theory is there is no priesthood because Christianity is a relationship not a religion.

Show me in the Bible a distinct verse that says clearly that the priesthood is over.

Furthermore, if such is true, why did the very first Christians continue that practice?

 

[Freedom~Sprite]

I wouldn't call it "obscene" but rather heterodox, that is, it is the truth twisted into an error. There most certainly is purgation after death, just not a place called "Purgatory."

There is no idol worship in either the Roman or the Orthodox Church. Idols are something of creation (like the ugly elephant "god" Ganesh) which is called God. That doesn't happen in either Orthodoxy or Catholicism. We know who God is and we know what a saint is and we know the distinction.

Rome has the Eucharist, which Jesus said is the source of eternal life. Your denomination, whoever they are, does not, therefore, you are at best missing something important.

No, there is no such place as Purgatory in Jesus' teachings.
You're missing something important. The truth of Jesus Christ and his actual ministry. Following a church that claims he failed on the cross is obscene.

 

[Light of the East]

Pastors ARE priests.

Not unless they are ordained within Apostolic Succession. You really don't understand covenant, do you? Such an idea violates both hierarchy and succession of office.

 

[Light of the East]

No, there is no such place as Purgatory in Jesus' teachings.

You're missing something important. The truth of Jesus Christ and his actual ministry. Following a church that claims he failed on the cross is obscene.

Where does the Roman Church say that he "failed on the Cross?" I've never seen that in any of their official publications.

As I said before, the teaching of Purgatory is heterodox, but there is purgation after death according to 1 Corinthians 3.

 

[Light of the East]

If for the sake of argument what you are saying is true,
are Protestants Saved, will they go to Heaven?

That is God's call - not mine. Protestants may very well be saved, given that first of all baptism is efficient even when administered by the heterodox. So that saves all who are baptized. And many Protestants are people who love the Lord even in a truncated religious structure.

But if there really is more to be had by entering an Apostolic Faith, such as having the fullness of worship and the Sacraments, wouldn't you want that?

 

[Light of the East]

Your logic is flawed. Have a nice Easter.

No, my logic is the Orthodox teaching of the Holy Orthodox Church, which goes back to the Apostles. If I understand correctly, the Roman idea of Purgatory appeared somewhere around the Medieval times.