Purgatory: Scriptural or not... or worse?

[The Times]

My thing is... It is possible that the spiritual reality of the universe may also include realities not explicitly elaborated on in Scripture. It's possible.

I know Scripture feels "safe" for many, and I get that. But it is also possible the Purgatory or some similar state is real, and that Scriptures point to it.

Let us say it is possible ok, for example sake. Now we need to contort all of scripture to apply it to this central to the faith narrative that purgatory does exist.

Ok say it does exist. Now even though there is no scriptural proof of it being a central faith narrative, but let us say it does exist, by contorting scripture through forceful inference.

Though it may be possible that purgatory does exist, there is absolutely no evidence that people are sent to a place called purgatory.

The case in point is the thief who was crucified with Jesus Christ. Jesus tells him.....truly today you will be with me in paradise. Notice the other thief is not told anything as to where he will go.

But we certainly can know where a good servant goes in comparison to a wicked servant......

46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

We know that the central theme of the Christain faith is to focus/look upto jesus and to abide in him, through the works of faith in him. This means we are keeping watch in our vigilant relationship we have with Jesus, even until death. We are told we will be given heavenly possessions. Yet to the servant who has strayed from the love of Jesus and have his fellow brothers to be beaten to a pulp, well they are assigned to eternal damnation in the afterlife.

If we refer to the inquisitions, we can discern that those who were beaten to a pulp kept watch and died whilst keeping the works of faith in Christ. Whilst the members of the religious institution who thought they were receiving indulgences for supporting the bishop's decree as inquisitors to reduce their purgatory stay, were infact the symbols of the wicked servants who had beaten their fellow servants.

The way that purgatory is constructed is most certainly beneficial to a man made institution and not those who remain focused and loyal to Jesus Christ. As Jesus said if you were of the world the world will accept you, because you are not of the world, they will do onto you worse things that they did to your master and this is speaking of the religious institution of jesus days and also the ones that came later who had condemned many by virtue of a purgatory doctrine that motivated them to commit Haynes crime and against their fellow servants and members of the body of Christ.

 

[Kenny'sID]

My thing is... It is possible that the spiritual reality of the universe may also include realities not explicitly elaborated on in Scripture. It's possible.

I know Scripture feels "safe" for many, and I get that. But it is also possible the Purgatory or some similar state is real, and that Scriptures point to it.

Well yeah, it does feel safe. Think of all the things that can be done with what you are suggesting...the possibilities are limitless.

Betcha a buck I could find a way to make scripture point to Micky Mouse being the creator if I really tried.

 

[Kenny'sID]

tormented until he paid

And forever is the price. But he was most likely making the point, if you make everyone else pay in full so too will you have to be punished "until" all is paid. Far too much is being made of that.

 

[Hamlet7768]

One is made clean by the finished work of the cross, the blood of Jesus. End of story.

if you are unlean, you are not covered by the blood of Jesus. That is what makes a person unlclean.

Purgatory is and was a great way to generate money. You have to pay to have the church pray for your loved ones time to get out of purgatory. Purgatory does indeed nullify the cross entirely. If you just have to do time in purgatory then why ever accept Jesus as savior? If all you have to do is spend time. What determines the difference between who goes to purgatory vs who goes to hell? Frankly it is blasphemous to the cross and to our Lord and Savior and the work of the cross and the resurrection.

"Generate money"? Don't make me laugh. I made a $5 donation to have a Mass said for an acquaintance who had recently passed. That's a pittance. Sure, members of the Church hierarchy corrupted this practice in effect, but giving alms is a good work in itself. In addition, that's the only time I was ever asked to donate money for anything related to that cause. What does the Church ask people to do for the souls in Purgatory? Pray. The Mass is one great prayer, but we can also pray a Novena, a Rosary, the Divine Office, or any other prayer for those in Purgatory.

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

Let me get this straight.

Believers in purgatory believe that they will have to go and pay for all their sins by suffering in purgatory (for who knows how long?) even though Jesus already paid it all, on the Cross?

So, what good is the Cross, then?

Seems to me this doctrine makes the cross of Christ of none effect.

If we expect to become perfect by doing something ourselves (even suffering in purgatory) then Christ is become of no effect to us. We are fallen from Grace! Galatians 5:4

Albion is mis-representing how Catholics understand Purgatory and the effects of Sin. Sin fractures our relationship with God, and no forgiveness can magically heal that break. This is why we pray, receive the sacraments, give alms, and do other good works, so that we may become more like God. Think of Sin like a sickness, which must be purged through medicine. It is a process, and if it is not completed in this life, then it is completed after.

And as I previously said, none of this is possible without the Cross. Prayers, fasting, almsgiving, all of these are following Jesus' command to deny ourselves, pick up your crosses, and follow Jesus (Mt 16:24, Lk 9:23). In doing this, we unite our sufferings with Christ's suffering on the Cross. We participate more fully in the Divine Life, dying to sin so we might live in Christ.

 

[ripple the car]

And from a purely / solely Scriptural view, I totally get your point.

But if one looks at Christian Truth and doctrine as not only the words of Scripture, but what has been taught and done prior to, during, and after the authoring and canonization of Scripture, there's a lot more to learn.

Let us say it is possible ok, for example sake. Now we need to contort all of scripture to apply it to this central to the faith narrative that purgatory does exist.

Ok say it does exist. Now even though there is no scriptural proof of it being a central faith narrative, but let us say it does exist, by contorting scripture through forceful inference.

Though it may be possible that purgatory does exist, there is absolutely no evidence that people are sent to a place called purgatory.

The case in point is the thief who was crucified with Jesus Christ. Jesus tells him.....truly today you will be with me in paradise. Notice the other thief is not told anything as to where he will go.

But we certainly can know where a good servant goes in comparison to a wicked servant......

46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

We know that the central theme of the Christain faith is to focus/look upto jesus and to abide in him, through the works of faith in him. This means we are keeping watch in our vigilant relationship we have with Jesus, even until death. We are told we will be given heavenly possessions. Yet to the servant who has strayed from the love of Jesus and have his fellow brothers to be beaten to a pulp, well they are assigned to eternal damnation in the afterlife.

If we refer to the inquisitions, we can discern that those who were beaten to a pulp kept watch and died whilst keeping the works of faith in Christ. Whilst the members of the religious institution who thought they were receiving indulgences for supporting the bishop's decree as inquisitors to reduce their purgatory stay, were infact the symbols of the wicked servants who had beaten their fellow servants.

The way that purgatory is constructed is most certainly beneficial to a man made institution and not those who remain focused and loyal to Jesus Christ. As Jesus said if you were of the world the world will accept you, because you are not of the world, they will do onto you worse things that they did to your master and this is speaking of the religious institution of jesus days and also the ones that came later who had condemned many by virtue of a purgatory doctrine that motivated them to commit Haynes crime and against their fellow servants and members of the body of Christ.

 

[Heaven's Refuge]

Remember this: When Jesus spoke to the one thief on the other cross, He said, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." Jesus never said today you will be with me in purgatory.

 

[PollyJetix]

...Sin fractures our relationship with God, and no forgiveness can magically heal that break. This is why we pray, receive the sacraments, give alms, and do other good works, so that we may become more like God. Think of Sin like a sickness, which must be purged through medicine. It is a process, and if it is not completed in this life, then it is completed after.
And as I previously said, none of this is possible without the Cross. Prayers, fasting, almsgiving, all of these are following Jesus' command to deny ourselves, pick up your crosses, and follow Jesus (Mt 16:24, Lk 9:23). In doing this, we unite our sufferings with Christ's suffering on the Cross. We participate more fully in the Divine Life, dying to sin so we might live in Christ.

How sad.
If only you would experience the miracle of the New Birth, you would find how easy it is.
God provides a way that man's logic cannot comprehend. It really isn't about works, to become holy. God forgives and wipes out all that mess. We are made new creatures in Christ, instantly holy, by His grace.

It is a true miracle. You have to experience it, to understand what I mean.
Just ask Him. You don't have to go through any human priest.
Just pray, to the Father, in Jesus' name. Ask Him to forgive you and wash you clean.
Ask Him to come into your heart. And He will do the rest.

It's that easy.

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

Closed at OP request

 

[.Mikha'el.]

ON!

Closed at OP request!

ON!