Purgatory: Scriptural or not... or worse?

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GingerBeer

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I don't see the idea of purgatory in the Scriptures.
Seems like the bible says that "nothing impure shall enter the city [of God]" (Revelation 21:27) so there must be something that changes a person between death and going into the city. And Ephesians 5:5 says "For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." so something has to happen to a person between death and inheriting in the kingdom of God, right?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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He who IS IN CHRIST purifies himself, for CHRIST is PURE.
After a person dies,
he does nothing - it is already finished - either he is condemned,
resurrected as the BIBLE says on the appointed day to judgment and shame,
or he is raised to life in CHRIST JESUS as appointed.
All the stories about 'cleaning up sin' after dieing
are completely and utterly from pagan religions
and directly contrary to all SCRIPTURE.
 
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PollyJetix

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But tell me.
Do you really believe you are pure enough for heaven . As you are?
Of course I am. Because I am washed in His blood, and pursuing God as closely as I can.
I love Him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength.
To love Him any less is lukewarmness, and will be spewed out of His mouth.
By His grace, I am ready to see God. Now.
 
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Light of the East

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He who IS IN CHRIST purifies himself, for CHRIST is PURE.
After a person dies, he does nothing - it is already finished - either he is condemned,
resurrected as the BIBLE says on the appointed day to judgment and shame,
or he is raised to life in CHRIST JESUS as appointed. All the stories about 'cleaning up sin' after dieing are completely and utterly from pagan religions and directly contrary to all SCRIPTURE.

The purpose of Christ's salvation was to restore in us the divine nature and to bring us back to the journey into theosis (becoming God-like beings, or little gods). To achieve this, our natures must be changed. Upon death, we meet the God who is love. The Scriptures describe Him as a "burning fire," and that fire is His love.

Like any fire, it consumes, and in this case, it consumes all that is not like it. Thus, any soul that comes into contact with the fire of God's love will be affected by it. All that is not like Christ shall be burned away and we shall be like Him.

There is no such place as Purgatory, but there is purgation by the fiery love of God which burns away all the dross in our lives. And you are reading that verse wrong. It says that he who is in Christ purifies himself...which is a lifelong process. It doesn't say we become pure like Christ. We must be changed, and this takes time and effort. To be instantly changed into what we are to become in Christ would kill us. We couldn't take it. Our salvation is a process, a journey, and purgation at the end of the journey is the finishing touches to our salvation and our journey into theosis.
 
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Light of the East

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Of course I am. Because I am washed in His blood, and pursuing God as closely as I can.
I love Him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength.
To love Him any less is lukewarmness, and will be spewed out of His mouth.
By His grace, I am ready to see God. Now.


Really? You are pursuing God as closely as you can?

Okay. Simple question. We just finished Lent and the week of our Lord's Passion. Did you Fast all during Lent and Passion Week? And by Fast, I don't mean you gave up Twinkies like the Catholics do. I mean the real Fast of the Early Fathers and Ascetics - no meat, no dairy, no eggs, for forty days, with a complete fast except water on Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

If you didn't, then your claim is invalid.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Then you don't really understand what purgatory is.

Or maybe it means it's simply not there... I mean? The bible is typically clear when it comes to important concepts or ideologies.... It's very clear about hell, heaven, lake of fire....you would figure purgatory would be somewhere in there.
 
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Frank Jennings

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I don't see the idea of purgatory in the Scriptures.

It seems to me to be an invention of humans who wanted to make a way for sinful people to get to heaven, bypassing the work of the Cross.

Thus, the idea of purgatory is not only non-Biblical, but ANTI-Christ.

If we can add to the work of Christ, by paying for "some" of our sins in purgatory,
then why can we not pay for all of them, eventually, in hellfire, and at some future point in eternity, escape hell?

Add to this, the idea of canonization of saints.
The Scriptures imply not at all, that some Christians who have died have achieved a higher "sainthood" (by going straight to heaven, and skipping purgatory) than those of us who are in Christ, here on earth.

The Bible calls all Christians, saints.

The ideas of canonized saints and purgatory are interdependent, and I can find no support for either in the Scriptures.

What say you?

There is no purgatory. This is a Roman Catholic false doctrine and is not supported by scripture. When you die you had better be fessed up and right with God through Jesus and His cross His blood and His sacrifice. The simplicity of the gospel is just that. Men and their false doctrines and religions have tried to change the very word of God. Woe unto them. They have tried to add to and take away from God's word. I was saved outside of church walls a d knew nothing of Jesus or God's word. He took a blank page and was able to show me His word, the Bible and the power and truth written there.

The doctrine of purgatory has stumbled and damned multitudes. See what the word says. Repent, be born again, be baptized in water and in the Holy Spirit of God. Receive the spiritual gifts of God. Speak in tongues. Cast out devils. Put on the full armor of God Ephesians 6th chapter. Those baptized in His Holy Spirit have no need for men to teach them for;

1 John 2:27 (NKJV)
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
 
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Frank Jennings

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Since we need to be judged before we go to heaven or hell, surely there is a place we await that. If that isn't what we refer to as purgatory, I have no idea...hey, I still haven't figured out Hell, something I'm sure exists so, Purgatory, who knows?

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. If you have repented, asked Jesus to forgive and save you you have escaped judgement.

1 Corinthians 11:32 KJVS
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Jesus told the thief on the cross next to him that "today you shall be with me in paradise"

The simple gospel;
1. You must be born again. Repent of your sins and believe that Jesus, our savior is the son of God and that God has raised Him from the dead. You will be saved.
2. Be water baptized, immersed not sprayed or sprinkled.
3. Seek, Receive the gift, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2, Acts 19, Mark 16,

Do not accept false teaching that cannot be proved outside of the Bible. God still does all of the things written in the new testament. He arrested me outside of Denominationalism. Convicted me, saved me, baptized me in His Holy Spirit. I was water baptized later. When I die I will be with Him not in some waiting room! Paul said "I'd rather depart this life and be with Jesus but for your sake I will stay and minister for the Lord".
Friend, look into the pages of your Bible (not a Catholic one that has some erroneous books that say" ALMS ATONE FOR SINS") and see what God says. One question.

What sayeth the word? I pray you listen to God and His word, not to religious falsehood. Amen
 
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PropheticTimes

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Really? You are pursuing God as closely as you can?

Okay. Simple question. We just finished Lent and the week of our Lord's Passion. Did you Fast all during Lent and Passion Week? And by Fast, I don't mean you gave up Twinkies like the Catholics do. I mean the real Fast of the Early Fathers and Ascetics - no meat, no dairy, no eggs, for forty days, with a complete fast except water on Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

If you didn't, then your claim is invalid.

My Bible does not say that if I don't avoid meat, eggs, dairy for 40 days and nothing but water on Good Friday and Holy Saturday, that I am not pursuing my God closely. These are rituals of men and will not get one any closer to the Father.

It does say, however, that I am saved by faith through grace, and not of works so that none should boast.

The true gospel of Jesus Christ has been utterly forsaken by the RCC.
 
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JIMINZ

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  • Agree
Reactions: Phil 1:21
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GingerBeer

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There is no purgatory. This is a Roman Catholic false doctrine and is not supported by scripture.
That looks like a little bit of doctrine repeated as if it were truth when in fact it isn't. Give some thought to these passages and your own state right now.
  • Ephesians 5:5 "For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."
  • Revelation 21:27 "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life."
 
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JIMINZ

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That may be true, but it really doesn't have to be mentioned per se for it to be a holding place that must exist, that we gave a name to.

All I can come up that would change that is the fact that the "dead in Christ" will rise at his 2nd coming, so there is no real holding place. I think there is mention we are in a sleep state. If that can be verifed by most on what happens to us after death, then there likely is no Purgatory.

Seems to me where, if anywhere, where we go when we die, is the question Purgatory's existence relies on.



1Th 4:13-18
13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Equals no Purgatory

Look at it this way, when you went to sleep last night, how many hours did you sleep, were you aware of time passing, or when you woke up was it like you just fell asleep?

That is the way it is with those who die in Christ, they go to sleep, just as Stephen did when he was stoned.

When the last Trumpet sounds, those who are asleep in Him will arise, they will not know how many years they have been asleep, maybe 1 day or 2000 yrs.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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You are wrong actually. Luther included them in exactly the same location as the scholarly and wise St. Jerome wanted to put them (but was vetoed by a less than know-it-all Pope, which resulted in them being placed out of context with the rest of Scripture.

Likewise, the English translators followed both Jerome and Luther's lead and put them in the same place; between the old and new testament. These books were later removed by an act of British Parliament and by Anglicans in response to a very high paper tax.

Nope. Not Martin Luther.

So the argument against purgatory being tied to the removal of Maccabees (with the reference to praying for the dead) is invalid. Ever been to a Confessional Lutheran Funeral; from the commendation at the beginning of the service, until the end of the committal service, we do "Pray for the dead", but not to deliver them from purgatory, but to commend their eternal care, body and soul, to almighty God!

However, we do accept that the stain of original sin must be removed before we can enter heaven. This is not a process that takes a finite time, not years, not thousands of years as was once taught wrongly by the Catholic Church, but a mere instant.

On Friday we heard the Passion Gospel; the Good Thief crucified beside our Lord was given the assurance that "today, you will be with me in Paradise"; our Lord did not say 'once we take a few hundred years and roast the sin out of you, you will be with me in paradise'. Such was the result of misinformation; later, unscrupulous clergy, bishops and popes, saw it as a meas of generating income through the sale of indulgences and masses for the dead. Likewise, the whole practice of indulgences was gravely misused because some sold them as forgiveness for sins committed in the future; they then became a licence to sin for those wealthy enough to buy them.

To paraphrase Luther; 'if the Pope were truly Christian, out of charity, would he not spring the faithful from purgatory without charge or fees?'.

Seems like the bible says that "nothing impure shall enter the city [of God]" (Revelation 21:27) so there must be something that changes a person between death and going into the city. And Ephesians 5:5 says "For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." so something has to happen to a person between death and inheriting in the kingdom of God, right?

So a purging of some sort must happen; some might argue that our sinful nature remains with our mortal body, while through the shedding of mortal flesh our souls become pure; yet Scripture tells us that our mortal bodies will be raised immortal on the last day; so they too must be free of the stain of sin.

The purpose of Christ's salvation was to restore in us the divine nature and to bring us back to the journey into theosis (becoming God-like beings, or little gods). To achieve this, our natures must be changed. Upon death, we meet the God who is love. The Scriptures describe Him as a "burning fire," and that fire is His love.

Like any fire, it consumes, and in this case, it consumes all that is not like it. Thus, any soul that comes into contact with the fire of God's love will be affected by it. All that is not like Christ shall be burned away and we shall be like Him.

There is no such place as Purgatory, but there is purgation by the fiery love of God which burns away all the dross in our lives. And you are reading that verse wrong. It says that he who is in Christ purifies himself...which is a lifelong process. It doesn't say we become pure like Christ. We must be changed, and this takes time and effort. To be instantly changed into what we are to become in Christ would kill us. We couldn't take it. Our salvation is a process, a journey, and purgation at the end of the journey is the finishing touches to our salvation and our journey into theosis.

Well stated.
 
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JIMINZ

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But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire (1 Corinthians 3:15).

And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come (Matthew 13:32).​

Some will be saved only "through fire," and others will be forgiven "in the age to come." These are good scriptural supports for purgatory. What is purgatory?

All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven (CCC 1030).​

NAAH!... It's only Catholic Dogma.
Pure and simple.

There isn't an teaching by any Apostle on the subject.
 
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Phil 1:21

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He who IS IN CHRIST purifies himself, for CHRIST is PURE.
After a person dies,
he does nothing - it is already finished - either he is condemned,
resurrected as the BIBLE says on the appointed day to judgment and shame,
or he is raised to life in CHRIST JESUS as appointed.
All the stories about 'cleaning up sin' after dieing
are completely and utterly from pagan religions
and directly contrary to all SCRIPTURE.

Three of the best words Jesus ever spoke: "IT IS FINISHED!"
 
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