Purgatory: Scriptural or not... or worse?

[Vicomte13]

Moreover, the Jews themselves believe in a place between death and heaven that is called "paradise". They argued as to what happened here but the belief in paradise was pretty much universal.

The Jews ALSO believe in ANOTHER place between death and Gan Eden (which is Paradise, not "heaven" - "heaven" is the sky). That OTHER place Jews believe in is called Gehenna, and it is Purgatory.

 

[Arthur B Via]

I don't see the idea of purgatory in the Scriptures.

It seems to me to be an invention of humans who wanted to make a way for sinful people to get to heaven, bypassing the work of the Cross.

Thus, the idea of purgatory is not only non-Biblical, but ANTI-Christ.

If we can add to the work of Christ, by paying for "some" of our sins in purgatory,
then why can we not pay for all of them, eventually, in hellfire, and at some future point in eternity, escape hell?

Add to this, the idea of canonization of saints.
The Scriptures imply not at all, that some Christians who have died have achieved a higher "sainthood" (by going straight to heaven, and skipping purgatory) than those of us who are in Christ, here on earth.

The Bible calls all Christians, saints.

The ideas of canonized saints and purgatory are interdependent, and I can find no support for either in the Scriptures.

What say you?

Always enjoyed picturing my family and friends who've passed in Heaven but that's not what Jesus tells us. He said NO one has been to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven. Jesus only! For those who sleep it's only a moment of sleep for them, as the scriptures are filled with those who "Sleep in the earth", and they, along with every True believer will SOON be resurrected when Jesus gathers us to where He is now. Heaven. 1st. Thessalonians 4:16 IS the next event on God's prophetic calendar. Rejoice brothers and sisters!!!

 

[Phil 1:21]

"Today, you will be with me in paradise." Yet, if he was a thief, or a revolutionary, how could he go to heaven without being cleansed in Purgatory according to Catholic doctrine? Clearly someone with the character of a thief cannot go clodhopping into heaven without a radical change in his character. Yet, wouldn't hanging naked on a cross for three hours, and then dying by suffocating as a result of having one's legs broken been a terrible purgation? Yes, it would have been. If he was repentant and suffered willingly-i.e. without rebelling against God- how could such suffering not have been a purgation? It was his purgatory. We know that, because he was cleansed well enough to be with Christ that day in paradise.

Hmmm…but Jesus never said any of that, did he? You’re confusing the word of man with the Word of God. Less catechism, more Bible study.

 

[Aneyale C. Del]

The Primitive Christian Church believed in a purification of the soul after death, a belief rooted in Jewish practises and Scripture . A passage that gives evidence of the Jewish practice of offering prayers and sacrifices to cleanse the soul of the departed is to be found in Zechariah, "I will bring the one third through fire, and I will refine them as silver is refined, and I will test them as gold is tested" (Zec 13:9). The school of Rabbi Shammai interpreted this passage as a purification of the soul through God's mercy and goodness, preparing it for eternal life. In the Book of Sirach, "Withhold not your kindness from the dead" (Sir 7:33), was interpreted as imploring God to cleanse the soul.

The New Testament has few references about purging of the soul (or even about heaven for that matter). In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus' statement that certain sins "will not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come" (Mt 12:32), at least suggests a purging of the soul after death. From this sentence many understood that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come , because of this plus the consensus in using the Septuagint, the early Church preserved the belief in offering prayers for the purification of the soul.

 

[AspieforGod]

Really? You are pursuing God as closely as you can?

Okay. Simple question. We just finished Lent and the week of our Lord's Passion. Did you Fast all during Lent and Passion Week? And by Fast, I don't mean you gave up Twinkies like the Catholics do. I mean the real Fast of the Early Fathers and Ascetics - no meat, no dairy, no eggs, for forty days, with a complete fast except water on Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

If you didn't, then your claim is invalid.

What humans think and judge of other believers is invalid. What God sees in each heart of those who belong to Him He calls good and approves of no other judgement is needed unless you think your judgement is more just than God's?

 

[ripple the car]

Always enjoyed picturing my family and friends who've passed in Heaven but that's not what Jesus tells us. He said NO one has been to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven. Jesus only! For those who sleep it's only a moment of sleep for them, as the scriptures are filled with those who "Sleep in the earth", and they, along with every True believer will SOON be resurrected when Jesus gathers us to where He is now. Heaven. 1st. Thessalonians 4:16 IS the next event on God's prophetic calendar. Rejoice brothers and sisters!!!

According to you, sure. But herein lies the difficulty in each believer taking up a Bible and interpreting it for themselves. You get thousands of unique and mutually exclusive theologies on every possible topic. They can not all possibly be correct.

 

[W2L]

Any biblical references, to anything resembling purification, pertains to this life and not after death.

 

[zoidar]

As I understand it purgatory for catholics is the place where believers end up before entering heaven. Then his "work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 cor 15) So it's not about people being saved that aren't Christians, rather about Christians needing to go through a cleaning phase.

"According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 cor 3:10-15)

(I had to edit, because when I think about, I think catholics believe that all Christians need to go through purgatory. But the experience will be different for every person, not necessarly a bad experience (?) )

 

[joshhuntnm]

I don't see the idea of purgatory in the Scriptures.

It seems to me to be an invention of humans who wanted to make a way for sinful people to get to heaven, bypassing the work of the Cross.

Thus, the idea of purgatory is not only non-Biblical, but ANTI-Christ.

If we can add to the work of Christ, by paying for "some" of our sins in purgatory,
then why can we not pay for all of them, eventually, in hellfire, and at some future point in eternity, escape hell?

Add to this, the idea of canonization of saints.
The Scriptures imply not at all, that some Christians who have died have achieved a higher "sainthood" (by going straight to heaven, and skipping purgatory) than those of us who are in Christ, here on earth.

The Bible calls all Christians, saints.

The ideas of canonized saints and purgatory are interdependent, and I can find no support for either in the Scriptures.

What say you?

non-biblical for sure.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Any biblical references, to anything resembling purification, pertains to this life and not after death.

Agreed. It's as if we didn't just celebrate Good Friday and Easter Sunday. *facepalm*

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Supporting a pagan concept with God's Word is not healthy.

God watches over His Word.

He knows pgrgtry is pagan - so saying it is not pagan is offensive to God. He calls it idolatry and/or witchcraft, and false teaching.

 

[Shea Rodriguez]

I don't see the idea of purgatory in the Scriptures.

It seems to me to be an invention of humans who wanted to make a way for sinful people to get to heaven, bypassing the work of the Cross.

Thus, the idea of purgatory is not only non-Biblical, but ANTI-Christ.

If we can add to the work of Christ, by paying for "some" of our sins in purgatory,
then why can we not pay for all of them, eventually, in hellfire, and at some future point in eternity, escape hell?

Add to this, the idea of canonization of saints.
The Scriptures imply not at all, that some Christians who have died have achieved a higher "sainthood" (by going straight to heaven, and skipping purgatory) than those of us who are in Christ, here on earth.

The Bible calls all Christians, saints.

The ideas of canonized saints and purgatory are interdependent, and I can find no support for either in the Scriptures.

What say you?

Nobody is in heaven, not until after the resurrection.

 

[Albion]

The New Testament has few references about purging of the soul (or even about heaven for that matter). In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus' statement that certain sins "will not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come" (Mt 12:32), at least suggests a purging of the soul after death.

"Purging" is a word that can be interpreted in various ways. Some people like to think that there will be some wiping the slate clean of our shortcomings--like Hillary Clinton's description of her erasure of thousands of Emails, i.e. like taking a cloth and rubbing it across the screen. But it can also mean what the theory of Purgatory holds--punishment equivalent to that suffered in Hell because of sins, except that it will not last forever.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Nobody is in heaven, not until after the resurrection.

Except for that criminal crucified next to Jesus?

 

[Kenny'sID]

So, the spirits of the dead went into a garbage dump?

No. There were no spirits going to the imaginary place evidently named after a garbage dump.

 

[ripple the car]

Any biblical references, to anything resembling purification, pertains to this life and not after death.

That is a possibility, but certainly not a necessity.

 

[W2L]

Nobody is in heaven, not until after the resurrection.

Please explain Colossians 3:1-4

 

[Standing Up]

I've always wondered why folks argue for something they surely don't want. Good luck in purgatory.

 

[Clovis Man]

I don't see the idea of purgatory in the Scriptures.

<snip>

What say you?

You're right.

 

[W2L]

That is a possibility, but certainly not a necessity.


It took me a number of years to understand that the Scriptures did not simply fall out of the sky as a text of sixty-six books and into Martin Luther's lap. Rather, the Bible is a living part of a wider textual, doctrinal, and practical stream of Tradition that has nothing to do theologically or historically with Protestantism, but is, rather, Catholic-Orthodox.

In your opinion perhaps. I however believe in simplicity. I dont follow Protestants or Catholics. I follow the scriptures that God gave me.