Purgatory and Sin Offerings?

[Major1]

That’s not even close to the worst part of what was going on at that time but I’m trying to refrain from mentioning it. It’s not my intention to attack the church. Just to present the facts.

Agreed!........

"You shall know the TRUTH and the truth shall set you free".

 

[Major1]

I have explained why.

I have cited them.

I don't. But if I did, what is it to you?

Another way of looking at it is 1 billion Catholics worldwide are obligated to believe in Purgatory.

Oh?

-- Clement of Alexandria
The believer through discipline divests himself of his passions and passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, passes to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance for the faults he may have committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more, not yet attaining what he sees others have acquired. The greatest torments are assigned to the believer, for God's righteousness is good, and His goodness righteous, and though these punishments cease in the course of the expiation and purification of each one, "yet" etc. (Patres Groeci. IX, col. 332 [A.D. 150-215]).

-- Origen
If a man departs this life with lighter faults, he is condemned to fire which burns away the lighter materials, and prepares the soul for the kingdom of God, where nothing defiled may enter. For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (I Cor., 3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works. (Patres Groeci. XIII, col. 445, 448 [A.D. 185-232]).

"As John stood near the Jordan among those who came to be baptized, accepting those who confessed their vices and their sins and rejecting the rest ... so will the Lord Jesus Christ stand in a river of fire next to a flaming sword and Baptize all those who should go to Paradise after they die, but who lack purgation... But those who do not bear the mark of the first Baptism will not be baptized in the bath of fire. One must first be Baptized in water and Spirit so that, when the river of fire is reached, the marks of the baths of water and Spirit will remain as signs that one is worthy of receiving the Baptism of fire in Jesus Christ." (Origen, Commentary on Luke, 24th Homily, before 253 A.D)

-- Tertullian
"This place, the Bosom of Abraham, though not in Heaven, and yet above hell, offers the souls of the righteous an interim refreshment until the end of all things brings about the general resurrection and the final reward." (Tertullian, Against Marcion, 4:34, before 220 A.D.)

-- Cyprian
It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the Day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord (Letters 51[55]:20 [A.D. 253]).

You failed to post the LINKS so that they can be verified and the context considered.
For example, lets use "TERTULLIAN" as an example who you quoted,
And this is why I say that.

De corona militis.........
Tertullian's aim in this writing is to show that a Christian, if he is in the Roman army, may not wear the customary crown or wreath, as it amounts to idolatry."
De corona militis" mentions prayers for the dead as an Apostolic ordinance ..." - Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory, subsection titled Tradition.

FACT..........
Tertullian indicated his purpose in his introductory notes in the previous chapter: to cite things held by custom or tradition that are not in Scripture. Reviewing the list, some of these ancient customs have survived into modern times, while others have not, such as refraining from bathing for a week after baptism or feeling pained when normal household bread falls upon the ground. At any rate, Tertullian mentions the practice of making offerings for the dead. This is not, however, mentioned as an Apostolic ordinance.

There is another place in the same writing which has some bearing on the question of whether the primitive church taught a doctrine of purgatory. Chapter 11 contains a discussion of whether it is permissible for a Christian to be a Roman soldier in the first place. He writes a chain of questions designed to show the incompatibility of being a Christian in the Roman army.

"Shall it be held lawful to make an occupation of the sword, when the Lord proclaims that he who uses the sword shall perish by the sword?

And shall the son of peace take part in the battle when it does not become him even to sue at law? He multiplies examples at some length, then comes to the one of interest for our present purposes: And shall the Christian be burned according to camp rule, when he was not permitted to burn incense to an idol, when to him Christ remitted the punishment of fire?

This quote, is perhaps less advantageous to the idea that Tertullian spoke of purgatory.
Heart, Mind, Soul, and Strength: Did Tertullian speak of purgatory?

 

[Major1]

You believe others can be forgiven after death why? What scriptures are you basing this belief on? Surely you don’t just make assumptions in your interpretations without anything to support them do you?

From my experience, that is exactly what is taking place.

How else can Purgatory be explained????

 

[BNR32FAN]

Good comment! I have said before and say it again, there is not one single Scripture in the Bible that validates or even suggests the Catholic tradition of Purgatory.

Over the centuries billions of dollars have been paid to Roman Catholic priests to obtain relief from imaginary sufferings in Purgatory’s fire. The Catholic clergy has always taught that the period of suffering in Purgatory can be shortened by purchasing indulgences and novenas, buying Mass cards and providing gifts of money. When a Catholic dies, money is extracted from mourning loved ones to shorten the deceased’s punishment in Purgatory.

The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. NO ONE knows how long one stays in Purgatory!!!!!
NO ONE knows how mush suffering must be done before they can be released.
NO ONE knows how many Masses must be purchased.

The Pope and Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!

And yet, as is seen right here in black and white comments by RCC believers, they have bought into the scheme and defend it to their death.

Thanks and yes most people don’t realize that according to the catechism the doctrine of purgatory was first formulated in 1439AD at the council of Florence which was during the exact same time the Roman church was abusing the selling of indulgences. Since it wasnt formulated until 1439 and neither the Orthodox or Oriental Catholic Church, or any other Christian church for that matter, teach purgatory that proves that it is not handed down thru from the apostles. It’s seems like a huge coincidence that the evidence they use to support the doctrine had been around for 1000-1300+ years before the council of Florence and yet it never became a doctrine before. Another thing to keep in mind which I really do hate to bring up but unfortunately I think it is very relevant to the formulation of purgatory is this was during the time of the inquisitions. The Catholic Church actually apologize a few times in the past for the actions of the evil men who sanctioned and enforced the inquisitions. These were the same men present as the council of Florence who formulated the doctrine of purgatory. I’m going to refrain from giving my personal opinions as to why it is still a doctrine today. I really hate to bring these things up about the Roman church but I do think they are very relevant to the discussion.

On another note I attend a nondenominational Christian Filipino church and the Philippines is predominantly Roman Catholic. A brother in my bible study group told me that his uncle had recently passed and their priest (Roman Catholic) told his family that his uncle is suffering in purgatory and he could have his uncle released if they paid the church 5000 Filipino pesos. Indulgences were never intended to be limited to paying tithes to the church. Indulgences are supposed to be offered for any act of charity. The act of charity didn’t even necessarily have to be to the church. It could be helping a person in need or a fellow brother or sister. It was intended to be about acts of kindness not payment for forgiveness to the church. This is exactly the type of abuse of indulgences that was going on in the 13th to 15th century.

 

[Major1]

Thanks and yes most people don’t realize that according to the catechism the doctrine of purgatory was first formulated in 1439AD at the council of Florence which was during the exact same time the Roman church was abusing the selling of indulgences. Since it wasnt formulated until 1439 and neither the Orthodox or Oriental Catholic Church, or any other Christian church for that matter, teach purgatory that proves that it is not handed down thru from the apostles. It’s seems like a huge coincidence that the evidence they use to support the doctrine had been around for 1000-1300+ years before the council of Florence and yet it never became a doctrine before. Another thing to keep in mind which I really do hate to bring up but unfortunately I think it is very relevant to the formulation of purgatory is this was during the time of the inquisitions. The Catholic Church actually apologize a few times in the past for the actions of the evil men who sanctioned and enforced the inquisitions. These were the same men present as the council of Florence who formulated the doctrine of purgatory. I’m going to refrain from giving my personal opinions as to why it is still a doctrine today. I really hate to bring these things up about the Roman church but I do think they are very relevant to the discussion.

On another note I attend a nondenominational Christian Filipino church and the Philippines is predominantly Roman Catholic. A brother in my bible study group told me that his uncle had recently passed and their priest (Roman Catholic) told his family that his uncle is suffering in purgatory and he could have his uncle released if they paid the church 5000 Filipino pesos. Indulgences were never intended to be limited to paying tithes to the church. Indulgences are supposed to be offered for any act of charity. The act of charity didn’t even necessarily have to be to the church. It could be helping a person in need or a fellow brother or sister. It was intended to be about acts of kindness not payment for forgiveness to the church. This is exactly the type of abuse of indulgences that was going on in the 13th to 15th century.

100% correct !!!!

When the Traditions of men take precedent over the Doctrines of God's Word, that is in fact exactly what 1 Tim. 4:1 warns us about!

 

[thecolorsblend]

I do not want to be argumentative with you

Too late for that.

it does look like that is the case.

We finally agree on something.

I only have ONE objective and that is to get out the Word of God.

That's nice.

There is absolutely NO reason to listen to a Catholic radio show that will do nothing but expound on the in-Biblical doctrine of Purgatory by telling me about Catholic Traditions.

Understanding the Catholic teaching of Purgatory was literally the reason I posted the link to the radio show. So there's one reason right there.

Purgatory is the safety net

Oy...

I know that you are a committed Catholic and actually I admire your persistence in trying to make the world accept something which it already knows it wrong and is nothing more than a hoax.

You failed to post the LINKS so that they can be verified and the context considered.

For posterity's sake, this comment from you followed a post where I wrote:

Again, it's at Church Fathers.

Not that I think it would matter even if you were right (which you're not) about "failing" to post a link. A quick Google search is all most young people really need in order to verify the authenticity of a given quote.

 

[Major1]

Too late for that.

We finally agree on something.

That's nice.

Understanding the Catholic teaching of Purgatory was literally the reason I posted the link to the radio show. So there's one reason right there.

Oy...

View attachment 226856

For posterity's sake, this comment from you followed a post where I wrote:

Not that I think it would matter even if you were right (which you're not) about "failing" to post a link. A quick Google search is all most young people really need in order to verify the authenticity of a given quote.

There has never been scriptural warrant for a doctrine that declares man must to a place of purging to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. Neither in the Old Testament, or the New is there any such teaching documented.

It is the product of humanism and an active imagination and borne out of the fallacies of dubious book such as Maccabees, and other legends of men. Though it has become Roman Catholic dogma, no uninspired book or tradition of man can become an authority over God's word.

When the "word of God alone" is not our rule of law, then God alone is not our authority. We have forsaken trust in the Lord and have made man to rule for God. Because when Church leaders decide to make up their own doctrines based upon their own understanding (rather than God's word), they are failing to acknowledge His supremacy.
The Doctrine of Purgatory

 

[BNR32FAN]

There has never been scriptural warrant for a doctrine that declares man must to a place of purging to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. Neither in the Old Testament, or the New is there any such teaching documented.

It is the product of humanism and an active imagination and borne out of the fallacies of dubious book such as Maccabees, and other legends of men. Though it has become Roman Catholic dogma, no uninspired book or tradition of man can become an authority over God's word.

When the "word of God alone" is not our rule of law, then God alone is not our authority. We have forsaken trust in the Lord and have made man to rule for God. Because when Church leaders decide to make up their own doctrines based upon their own understanding (rather than God's word), they are failing to acknowledge His supremacy.
The Doctrine of Purgatory

Yes the idea of purgatory contradicts these scriptures. Notice these are stated in the past and present tense. Surely Paul wasn’t writing to people who had already gone through purgatory.

“Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.”

Colossians 1:22

“Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

1 Corinthians 6:11

“I am writing to you who are God’s children because your sins have been forgiven through Jesus.”

1 John 2:12

“And since we have been made right in God’s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God’s condemnation. For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son.”

Romans 5:9-10 NLT

 

[Major1]

Yes the idea of purgatory contradicts these scriptures. Notice these are stated in the past and present tense. Surely Paul wasn’t writing to people who had already gone through purgatory.

“Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.”

Colossians 1:22

“Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”

1 Corinthians 6:11

“I am writing to you who are God’s children because your sins have been forgiven through Jesus.”

1 John 2:12

“And since we have been made right in God’s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God’s condemnation. For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son.”

Romans 5:9-10 NLT

Agreed!

The Roman Catholic sacrament of penance, along with her related doctrines on satisfactions, indulgences, purgatory, and the supererogatory merits of the saints (which would include Mary's prayers and intercession), are nothing less than a blatant denial of the sufficiency of the merit of Christ!

True Christianity believes the work of Christ was totally sufficient to cleanse us from all sin. The atonement totally expiates the sin of the believer, totally discharges our indebtedness to God's wrath in respect to judgment for our demerits. It thus fully satisfies the demands of God's punitive justice. We are justified and saved from any judgment of sin by His blood, not Purgatory.
The Doctrine of Purgatory

 

[BNR32FAN]

Agreed!

The Roman Catholic sacrament of penance, along with her related doctrines on satisfactions, indulgences, purgatory, and the supererogatory merits of the saints (which would include Mary's prayers and intercession), are nothing less than a blatant denial of the sufficiency of the merit of Christ!

True Christianity believes the work of Christ was totally sufficient to cleanse us from all sin. The atonement totally expiates the sin of the believer, totally discharges our indebtedness to God's wrath in respect to judgment for our demerits. It thus fully satisfies the demands of God's punitive justice. We are justified and saved from any judgment of sin by His blood, not Purgatory.
The Doctrine of Purgatory

The Bible does give some evidence of penance. Fasting, wearing burlap and putting ashes on their head. Indulgences are also supported. The Bible says that acts of charity can cover a multitude of sins. But these acts of charity are not limited to the church. I don’t think that is the official ruling of the Roman church. I think the idea had been corrupted by a few people within the church so I wouldn’t hold the church itself responsible for their actions unless it was an official ruling of the church.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Agreed!

The Roman Catholic sacrament of penance, along with her related doctrines on satisfactions, indulgences, purgatory, and the supererogatory merits of the saints (which would include Mary's prayers and intercession), are nothing less than a blatant denial of the sufficiency of the merit of Christ!

True Christianity believes the work of Christ was totally sufficient to cleanse us from all sin. The atonement totally expiates the sin of the believer, totally discharges our indebtedness to God's wrath in respect to judgment for our demerits. It thus fully satisfies the demands of God's punitive justice. We are justified and saved from any judgment of sin by His blood, not Purgatory.
The Doctrine of Purgatory

Also prayers of intercession and supplication are supported in the Bible. So I don’t really see a problem with praying to the saints. Some people say that the saints are dead but I disagree. Moses and Elijah appeared before Jesus and the apostles and they were not dead. Some also say that the saints can’t hear our prayers. I honestly don’t know if they can or not but in either case I still don’t see it as a sin to pray to them. Some people say praying to them is worship but there are several different types of prayers mentioned in the Bible. Prayers for intercession and supplication are not actually worship. Some people say that praying to the saints is communicating with the dead. The Bible actually prohibits consulting with the dead thru the use of a medium. Consulting is different than prayers because it is seeking advice, knowledge, or council and of course prayers aren’t using a medium or witchcraft. Many people believe having statues and kneeling to the statues is also a sin but that is also not true. This idea comes from Leviticus 26:1 that says

““Do not make idols or set up carved images, or sacred pillars, or sculptured stones in your land so you may worship them. I am the Lord your God.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:1‬

The problem here is in the translation from Hebrew to English. All of the English translations have a very inaccurate translation for the Hebrew word pecel translating it as image. But the actual definition of pecel is a carved or graven idol. The word pecel is specifically referring to idols and not images or statues. I was extremely aggravated when I first learned this. Unfortunately our English translations have many inaccuracies in translations. Two more examples would be the word repent translated from the Greek word metanoia which means a change of mine or way of life, a change in direction, or a turning away from something. The definition of repent is simply to have remorse or regret. Terribly inaccurate. Another example is the word faith translated from the Greek word pistis which means to believe in, trustworthy, have faithfulness, loyalty, and fidelity. Much different than the definition of faith we have today.

As for me I don’t pray to the saints or Mary. I do have the utmost respect for them but I prefer to pray directly to God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Agreed!

The Roman Catholic sacrament of penance, along with her related doctrines on satisfactions, indulgences, purgatory, and the supererogatory merits of the saints (which would include Mary's prayers and intercession), are nothing less than a blatant denial of the sufficiency of the merit of Christ!

True Christianity believes the work of Christ was totally sufficient to cleanse us from all sin. The atonement totally expiates the sin of the believer, totally discharges our indebtedness to God's wrath in respect to judgment for our demerits. It thus fully satisfies the demands of God's punitive justice. We are justified and saved from any judgment of sin by His blood, not Purgatory.
The Doctrine of Purgatory

Sorry my translation of Leviticus 26:1 is not very accurate. This is a better translation.

“Ye shall make you no idols, neither shall ye rear you up a graven image, or a pillar, neither shall ye place any figured stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am Jehovah your God.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:1‬ ‭ASV‬‬

 

[Major1]

Also prayers of intercession and supplication are supported in the Bible. So I don’t really see a problem with praying to the saints. Some people say that the saints are dead but I disagree. Moses and Elijah appeared before Jesus and the apostles and they were not dead. Some also say that the saints can’t hear our prayers. I honestly don’t know if they can or not but in either case I still don’t see it as a sin to pray to them. Some people say praying to them is worship but there are several different types of prayers mentioned in the Bible. Prayers for intercession and supplication are not actually worship. Some people say that praying to the saints is communicating with the dead. The Bible actually prohibits consulting with the dead thru the use of a medium. Consulting is different than prayers because it is seeking advice, knowledge, or council and of course prayers aren’t using a medium or witchcraft. Many people believe having statues and kneeling to the statues is also a sin but that is also not true. This idea comes from Leviticus 26:1 that says

““Do not make idols or set up carved images, or sacred pillars, or sculptured stones in your land so you may worship them. I am the Lord your God.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:1‬

The problem here is in the translation from Hebrew to English. All of the English translations have a very inaccurate translation for the Hebrew word pecel translating it as image. But the actual definition of pecel is a carved or graven idol. The word pecel is specifically referring to idols and not images or statues. I was extremely aggravated when I first learned this. Unfortunately our English translations have many inaccuracies in translations. Two more examples would be the word repent translated from the Greek word metanoia which means a change of mine or way of life, a change in direction, or a turning away from something. The definition of repent is simply to have remorse or regret. Terribly inaccurate. Another example is the word faith translated from the Greek word pistis which means to believe in, trustworthy, have faithfulness, loyalty, and fidelity. Much different than the definition of faith we have today.

As for me I don’t pray to the saints or Mary. I do have the utmost respect for them but I prefer to pray directly to God.

And all Christians should have respect and honor toward the saints in heaven and Mary as well, but we should not pray to them.

It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them.

I think that if you investigate this you will find out that most Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help – instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help.

Just so that you are aware, Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers.

Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers?

Catholics view Mary and the saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical.

Heb. 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "approach the throne of grace with confidence."

 

[Major1]

The Bible does give some evidence of penance. Fasting, wearing burlap and putting ashes on their head. Indulgences are also supported. The Bible says that acts of charity can cover a multitude of sins. But these acts of charity are not limited to the church. I don’t think that is the official ruling of the Roman church. I think the idea had been corrupted by a few people within the church so I wouldn’t hold the church itself responsible for their actions unless it was an official ruling of the church.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you.

Penance is one of the sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church. It is used as a form of discipline or punishment imposed on a person to demonstrate repentance for his or her sins. The Catholics refer to this as “doing penance.”

The penitent first confesses his sin(s) to a priest. The penitent is then given instructions on what to do in order to atone for his sins. Usually, penance takes the form of praying certain prayers a specified number of times, fasting, or spending time in front of an altar. This is unbiblical.

Nowhere does Scripture teach that performing works or punishing oneself will make restitution for sin. The Bible does teach us to repent. To repent means to have a change of mind or a change in attitude toward God. Repentance of sin is accompanied by faith in Jesus Christ; they are inseparable.

The Catholic teaching of “doing penance” as a means of atoning for sin or of appeasing God is nowhere taught in the Bible. It is not our works that make us right with God. In fact, our works are considered as nothing more than “filthy rags” in His eyes .

It is the blood of Christ that makes us right!!!
Heb. 9:14-----“How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God”.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And all Christians should have respect and honor toward the saints in heaven and Mary as well, but we should not pray to them.

It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them.

I think that if you investigate this you will find out that most Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help – instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help.

Just so that you are aware, Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers.

Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers?

Catholics view Mary and the saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical.

Heb. 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "approach the throne of grace with confidence."

I won’t make any assumptions on the matter. I pray directly to God because I don’t believe the saints would ever try to persuade God on our behalf because they know that only God knows what’s best for us and they would never disagree with His decision. Having learned what I have on the subject I don’t condemn anyone for doing it as I don’t see it as a sin but perhaps a waste of time.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you.

Penance is one of the sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church. It is used as a form of discipline or punishment imposed on a person to demonstrate repentance for his or her sins. The Catholics refer to this as “doing penance.”

The penitent first confesses his sin(s) to a priest. The penitent is then given instructions on what to do in order to atone for his sins. Usually, penance takes the form of praying certain prayers a specified number of times, fasting, or spending time in front of an altar. This is unbiblical.

Nowhere does Scripture teach that performing works or punishing oneself will make restitution for sin. The Bible does teach us to repent. To repent means to have a change of mind or a change in attitude toward God. Repentance of sin is accompanied by faith in Jesus Christ; they are inseparable.

The Catholic teaching of “doing penance” as a means of atoning for sin or of appeasing God is nowhere taught in the Bible. It is not our works that make us right with God. In fact, our works are considered as nothing more than “filthy rags” in His eyes .

It is the blood of Christ that makes us right!!!
Heb. 9:14-----“How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God”.

I would have to research penance again. I do know that the apostles did some acts of penance like fasting and wearing burlap but I don’t recall them sentencing punishment for sins. I do agree we are saved by the blood of Christ by our faith. But I do believe that it is by a faith that produces repentance and fruit. Not by a dead faith as James put it. Some simply think that believing in Jesus is all that is necessary and we can still sin as much as we want and not do any good works and we are still saved. I don’t believe that. I believe if we have faith we are compelled by the Holy Spirit to do good works and to repent of sin. Of course we will still stumble but there’s a difference between stumbling and being a slave to sin or willfully indulging in sin. If we have been born again we will experience a true metanoia and we will hate every kind of sin. We will also have an inner urge to help others and do good works. If someone claims to believe and lacks these qualities I think their faith is questionable. Not that I go around pointing fingers at my brothers & sisters I’m no better than anyone else. I’m a sinner. I just prefer to explain salvation this way to give a larger picture of what the Bible requires for salvation so that people have a more complete understanding.

 

[Major1]

I would have to research penance again. I do know that the apostles did some acts of penance like fasting and wearing burlap but I don’t recall them sentencing punishment for sins. I do agree we are saved by the blood of Christ by our faith. But I do believe that it is by a faith that produces repentance and fruit. Not by a dead faith as James put it. Some simply think that believing in Jesus is all that is necessary and we can still sin as much as we want and not do any good works and we are still saved. I don’t believe that. I believe if we have faith we are compelled by the Holy Spirit to do good works and to repent of sin. Of course we will still stumble but there’s a difference between stumbling and being a slave to sin or willfully indulging in sin. If we have been born again we will experience a true metanoia and we will hate every kind of sin. We will also have an inner urge to help others and do good works. If someone claims to believe and lacks these qualities I think their faith is questionable. Not that I go around pointing fingers at my brothers & sisters I’m no better than anyone else. I’m a sinner. I just prefer to explain salvation this way to give a larger picture of what the Bible requires for salvation so that people have a more complete understanding.

Again....I hate to tell you this but you are incorrect once again. There is NO record in the Bible of the Apostles doing any penance neither wearing burlap and ashes.

Someone has given you some wrong information.

Sackcloth and ashes were used in Old Testament times as a symbol of debasement, mourning, and/or repentance. Someone wanting to show his repentant heart would often wear sackcloth, sit in ashes, and put ashes on top of his head.

 

[Major1]

I won’t make any assumptions on the matter. I pray directly to God because I don’t believe the saints would ever try to persuade God on our behalf because they know that only God knows what’s best for us and they would never disagree with His decision. Having learned what I have on the subject I don’t condemn anyone for doing it as I don’t see it as a sin but perhaps a waste of time.

I understand what you are saying, however you must know that praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.”

If that is how God feels about it, maybe you want to reconsider your thinking on this.

You see, praying to the dead opens the door to spiritualism and séances and witches and s on and all of that is forbidden by God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I understand what you are saying, however you must know that praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.”

If that is how God feels about it, maybe you want to reconsider your thinking on this.

You see, praying to the dead opens the door to spiritualism and séances and witches and s on and all of that is forbidden by God.

The verses that are mentioning communicating with the dead are referring to witchcraft. Prayers are not witchcraft or sorcery.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I understand what you are saying, however you must know that praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.”

If that is how God feels about it, maybe you want to reconsider your thinking on this.

You see, praying to the dead opens the door to spiritualism and séances and witches and s on and all of that is forbidden by God.

Deuteronomy is referring to consulting with spirits. Prayers for intercession and supplication are not consulting. Consulting is seeking advice or guidance. It’s a two way conversation.