Pseudoscience Vortex

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Evolution implies it. Human beings aren't separate from the rest of creation.

Implies it how? Humans, primates, mammals, vertebrates, etc., have all evolved many features that other creatures don't have - that's how evolution works.

 

[FireDragon76]

Implies it how? Humans, primates, mammals, vertebrates, etc., have all evolved many features that other creatures don't have - that's how evolution works.

Those features are built upon existing features.

I never said that dogs or fish have the exact same conscious complexity of a human being or primate, merely that they do have a kind of primitive consciousness, they have an inward reality of being.

 

[Diamond7]

the problem is that consciousness is ill-defined and first-person (subjective)

Research shows that people are more subjective than objective.

"Studies in cognitive psychology and neuroscience have shown that our beliefs, emotions, and past experiences can have a strong influence on how we perceive and interpret information, leading to a subjective perspective. This can lead to biases and errors in judgment, as our subjective perspective may not accurately reflect reality".

I believe that our emotional well being is based on how we perceive and interpret what happens to us in life.

 

[Diamond7]

Implies it how?

They are starting to develop a theory that we have the DNA and possibly the memory of ALL of our common ancestors going back to pond sludge. We may very well be affected by the memory of trauma our ancestors experienced and this may be where our instincts come from. I have had people tell me they can feel it in their blood what their ancestors had to suffer and endure.

 

[Diamond7]

you have to believe you can do something in order to give it a good try

As a carpenter, you just have to keep working at it and eventually, everything will just fall into place. When you are paid by the hour you just keep working at it if you have confidence you will ever finish the job or not. It really is as if our mind has some control over the physical world.

"As a Man Thinketh" is considered a classic. The book encourages people to think positively and avoid the negative.

 

[Diamond7]

But that doesn't mean we store what we popularly call memories (e.g. declarative - episodic & semantic, and procedural - skills & tasks) in the same way and in the same place(s).

Every sense has its own storage. If more than one sense is involved something has to join those memories together. This is a common teaching method to involve as many senses as we can in the learning process. Jessu would show them a tree and then teach a lesson using sight, hearing, the smell of the tree and so on.

I remember a class on cardiovascular health. They had a heart valve and they passed it around from person to person. So I still remember at least that part of the lesson because of the common experience and having to actually handle the visual aid. Everyone handled that item so everyone left a part of themselves, a part of their DNA on that item.

 

[Hans Blaster]

They are starting to develop a theory that we have the DNA and possibly the memory of ALL of our common ancestors going back to pond sludge.

This sounds like a slightly mangled interpretation of the ideas behind the genetics of common descent. (The DNA part, not the memory part.)

We may very well be affected by the memory of trauma our ancestors experienced and this may be where our instincts come from. I have had people tell me they can feel it in their blood what their ancestors had to suffer and endure.

Memories are personal. You form your own memories in your own brain. "Race memories" are not real.

 

[dlamberth]

I came across a meme that presents Erwin Schrodinger's perspective of consciousness.
I have to admit that there's something with it that I find attractive.

 

[Ahermit]

I have instantly been to Heaven, I have instantly been to the center of the universe. That is clearly spiritual and not physical. Even at the speed of light it would take a long time to get there. Quantum physicists say we are all in all. Everything in the universe is connected in real-time and all of the universe is in us. Because we are star stuff. We would not be here if a star had not died.

Revelation 6:13 talks about: "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth"

This physicality we are aware of are the densest realms.
The finer realms are aware of the denser realms, but denser are not aware of the finer.
Star stuff is dense. Our body is star stuff. Though I have a body, I am not the body.

 

[Pommer]

This physicality we are aware of are the densest realms.
The finer realms are aware of the denser realms, but denser are not aware of the finer.
Star stuff is dense. Our body is star stuff. Though I have a body, I am not the body.

This is heaven…the beginnings of the universe understanding itself through our eyes, when I die, it will be for me like the “time” before I existed, not “unpleasant” but unaware of that fact. Bliss.
Knowing that there are things and beings outside oneself can be frightening.

 

[Neogaia777]

We are dirt/dust, and to think any more of ourselves than that is just ego talking, and does not really benefit us in any kind of way, anyway, etc...

Yes we are all also spirit, but the way we are all one, or will become one, is when all the parts of the body fall in line with the will of the One who is the head, and again, thinking any more of ourselves than it/that/this, is just ego talking, and does not really benefit us in any kind of way, anyway, etc...

We are all only parts of the great body of the One who is the head, etc, and right now, we are not that yet, because we are all not yet in line with the will of the One who is the head, etc, so we are nothing more than fallen ones right now really, until that changes, etc...

We do not have a universe within us, but this universe is God's body, and He is the only One who is the great unifying consciousness, etc, but right now, His will is to not fully unify it all just yet, etc, because there are still some very important things for us to learn here, like lessons in "humility" for one, just yet, etc...

He can't afford to allow one's into Heaven for an eternity that would just cause it all to fall all over again just yet, etc...

That was for the beginning, but has no further place at or after a certain point, and in leading up to this creations final end, etc...

If everything is connected, then it is all connected by Him, and not us, etc, for we are only parts, etc, and we'd do very, very well to always be aware of, and always remember that, etc...

Pride makes one very, very stupid, and very, very unenlightened anyway, etc, for it strips away ones neutrality, and objectivity, etc, and so it also gets in the way of knowing the real Truth as well, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

We are dirt/dust, and to think any more of ourselves than that is just ego talking, and does not really benefit us in any kind of way, anyway, etc...

Yes we are all also spirit, but the way we are all one, or will become one, is when all the parts of the body fall in line with the will of the One who is the head, and again, thinking any more of ourselves than it/that/this, is just ego talking, and does not really benefit us in any kind of way, anyway, etc...

We are all only parts of the great body of the One who is the head, etc, and right now, we are not that yet, because we are all not yet in line with the will of the One who is the head, etc, so we are nothing more than fallen ones right now really, until that changes, etc...

We do not have a universe within us, but this universe is God's body, and He is the only One who is the great unifying consciousness, etc, but right now, His will is to not fully unify it all just yet, etc, because there are still some very important things for us to learn here, like lessons in "humility" for one, just yet, etc...

He can't afford to allow one's into Heaven for an eternity that would just cause it all to fall all over again just yet, etc...

That was for the beginning, but has no further place at or after a certain point, and in leading up to this creations final end, etc...

If everything is connected, then it is all connected by Him, and not us, etc, for we are only parts, etc, and we'd do very, very well to always be aware of, and always remember that, etc...

Pride makes one very, very stupid, and very, very unenlightened anyway, etc, for it strips away ones neutrality, and objectivity, etc, and so it also gets in the way of knowing the real Truth as well, etc...

God Bless!

Pseudoscience Vortex, or Pit, is a very appropriate name for this thread, etc...

God Bless!

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Those features are built upon existing features.

I never said that dogs or fish have the exact same conscious complexity of a human being or primate, merely that they do have a kind of primitive consciousness, they have an inward reality of being.

I agree with you on that. But they're vertebrates, they have brains, and brains appear necessary for consciousness (e.g. a first-person, subjective point of view, a sense and awareness of self, etc.) in living things. Other creatures may have complex interactive and adaptive behaviours, but there's no evidence of the processing capability to generate consciousness.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

They are starting to develop a theory that we have the DNA and possibly the memory of ALL of our common ancestors going back to pond sludge. We may very well be affected by the memory of trauma our ancestors experienced and this may be where our instincts come from. I have had people tell me they can feel it in their blood what their ancestors had to suffer and endure.

Who are 'they'? What do you mean by 'memory' in this context?

As best we can tell, instincts are genetically coded complex automatic behaviours or predispositions as a result of evolutionary selection pressures. There are some effects of individual experience, e.g. starvation, that can 'tag' particular genes and alter their expression. These 'epigenetic' tags may be inheritable for a few generations. These could potentially alter a descendant's behavioural predispositions (e.g. influence their eating patterns), but it's only a 'memory' in the broadest sense.

People feel all kinds of things about their ancestry. IMO, what they 'feel in their blood' about their ancestors should not be taken too seriously. We are all the survivors of evolutionary selection - we all have ancestors who will have suffered unimaginable hardship and trauma - genetic evidence suggests that the human population has been through several severe bottlenecks, possibly down to as few as between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Every sense has its own storage. If more than one sense is involved something has to join those memories together.

The brain associates salient sensory information together with the environment it was experienced in. Associative learning is the basic MO of the brain.

 

[Rajni]

I came across a meme that presents Erwin Schrodinger's perspective of consciousness.
I have to admit that there's something with it that I find attractive.

It sounds like what's been called "Open Individualism", which is the theory that one individual soul inhabits all sentient beings past, present, and future. Everyone is you, and vice versa. If you've read a short story by Andy Weir called "The Egg"(and there's also a very well-done short video adaptation of it on YouTube), it sums up the concept very well. It's fascinating... and just a tad mind-blowing.

 

[George95]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been moved to Non-Mainstream and Controversial Science from Physical & Life Sciences.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[FireDragon76]

It sounds like what's been called "Open Individualism", which is the theory that one individual soul inhabits all sentient beings past, present, and future. Everyone is you, and vice versa. If you've read a short story by Andy Weir called "The Egg"(and there's also a very well-done short video adaptation of it on YouTube), it sums up the concept very well. It's fascinating... and just a tad mind-blowing.

How is that any different than Advaita Vedanta?

 

[Rajni]

How is that any different than Advaita Vedanta?

Good question!

I'm not sure there is much of a difference, other than maybe who the "self" is which inhabits all sentient beings, which probably depends on who one asks. From what I understand, AV proposes it's God, whereas OI might suggest it's a singular soul created by Him. OI might also be mistaken for solipsism if not explained right. There is definitely a difference between it and the latter, imo.

Personally, I lean towards a dualistic view of the soul as being a separate individual in contrast to God, rather than being one and the same (as Swami Vivekananda once said, "I do not want to be sugar; I want to taste sugar. I want to love and enjoy the Beloved.").

All that said, I do believe that just as "in Him we live and move and have our being", God, too, permeates all. Like all things spiritual, trying to grasp such things can sometimes feel like nailing jello to the wall. Plus, it's too early in the morning as I type this.

Either way, the idea is fascinating that the person I'm interacting with is simply me in another body. I already believe in the concept of twin-souls (thanks to some very strange things that have come to light over the past several years), but OI extends that dynamic to not just one person, but everyone being you in another body. I get goosebumps if I dwell on it long enough.

 

[chilehed]