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Prove me wrong Phobes, a challenge, I'm calling you OUT.

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DieHappy

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He didn't become homosexual just bisexual. In order for the phobes' rationale to stand up he would have to have become fully gay as they are claiming homosexuals can become fully straight.

Still waiting for you to change ;)

Are you hitting on me?

The whole genetic thing is kind of a waste of time, really. In a sense we are all victims of our genes and in a sense we can determine our own future regardless of them. I don't feel like digging through my files but as I recall something along the lines of 30% of Parkinson's patients don't have the "parkinson's gene" while about 40% of people without the disease have the gene. It's all about the expression. The gene may make you more susceptible but if you eat lots of omega 3, avoid grains, turn off the tv and read, basic living right, you can avoid the disease. Also the frontal lobe's function is to overcome our paleocortex conditioning and allow us to do the thing that is harder short term but better long term. This is why left handers were able to become right handers and even decades after they abandoned the practice of making them switch and it was no longer socially taboo to be left handed, nearly all of them stayed right handed. But then there's the gene that makes you dark skinned or blue eyed and we don't seem to be able to overcome those, so there ya go.
 
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BigBadWlf

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Are you hitting on me?

The whole genetic thing is kind of a waste of time, really. In a sense we are all victims of our genes and in a sense we can determine our own future regardless of them. I don't feel like digging through my files but as I recall something along the lines of 30% of Parkinson's patients don't have the "parkinson's gene" while about 40% of people without the disease have the gene. It's all about the expression. The gene may make you more susceptible but if you eat lots of omega 3, avoid grains, turn off the tv and read, basic living right, you can avoid the disease. Also the frontal lobe's function is to overcome our paleocortex conditioning and allow us to do the thing that is harder short term but better long term. This is why left handers were able to become right handers and even decades after they abandoned the practice of making them switch and it was no longer socially taboo to be left handed, nearly all of them stayed right handed. But then there's the gene that makes you dark skinned or blue eyed and we don't seem to be able to overcome those, so there ya go.
And even thought skin color is genetic (but not related to any specific gene) there are those who manage to hate people who have different skin color.

Hatred based on sexual orientation is no different form hatred based on skin color ore religion. The whining complains about “no gay gene” is apparently somehow a justification for hatred by those trying to pretend that they are somehow morally superior to racists or anti-semitics….but in the end they are no different
 
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cantata

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Yes.
If we are speaking purely of genetics.

Okay. I may agree with you. I don't think non-heterosexuality is genetic, although it may be biologically determined in the majority of cases.

The only difference is that I think it's awesome and you don't. :p
 
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TheDag

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Well I for one don't have a moral problem with incest between consenting adults.
Yep, there is no reason why incest is 'wrong'. Granted, it is gross. Ditto goes for those who wish to commit suicide.
Wow you guys are the very first I've ever heard say that. The normal response is that it isn't ok because the law says so.
 
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TheDag

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But the challenge is perfectly legitimate and you know it.
but it isn't because they would not be forgiven if homosexuality is a sin. As I've said previously you obviously don't understand how forgiveness works and that it has conditions. Seem as you want to repeat your challenge is legit I thought I'd repeat myself as well.

If a bunch of holier-than-thou "Christian" born straight people want to preach that homosexuals must change their sexual orientation in order to be saved, then one (or a statistical sample of about 700) needs to prove it works the other way.
Just in case you missed it as another poster said there is no requirement in the bible for that.

He didn't become homosexual just bisexual. In order for the phobes' rationale to stand up he would have to have become fully gay as they are claiming homosexuals can become fully straight.

Still waiting for you to change ;)
and I'm still waiting for your proof that your view is correct. It seems to me that it is only smart that if there is no proof one way or the other then we must wait for more evidence.
 
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cantata

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Wow you guys are the very first I've ever heard say that. The normal response is that it isn't ok because the law says so.

It isn't illegal in some European countries, including France, The Netherlands, and Sweden.

Besides, I don't base my personal morality solely on what the laws of my country happen to be.
 
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Trevorocity

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but it isn't because they would not be forgiven if homosexuality is a sin. As I've said previously you obviously don't understand how forgiveness works and that it has conditions. Seem as you want to repeat your challenge is legit I thought I'd repeat myself as well.

Lame excuse #1, all sin is a willful choice. Therefore you can either be forgiven for "choosing" homosexuality OR no one can ever be forgiven ever. Nice try.

Just in case you missed it as another poster said there is no requirement in the bible for that.

Point in fact the Ex-gay quacks are using extra-biblical "evidence" to prove gays can change their sexual orientation. The bible also says nothing about that either.

and I'm still waiting for your proof that your view is correct. It seems to me that it is only smart that if there is no proof one way or the other then we must wait for more evidence.

Yes I'm still waiting for convincing scientifically reviewed evidence that gays can change their sexual orientation through magic and prayer.
 
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cantata

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Lame excuse #1, all sin is a willful choice. Therefore you can either be forgiven for "choosing" homosexuality OR no one can ever be forgiven ever. Nice try.

I think that doing something that you believe to be a sin, believing that you can get away with it because it will be forgiven, pretty much makes forgiveness impossible as far as many Christians are concerned.

That's very different from doing something sinful, not realising it is a sin or why one shouldn't sin, and then renouncing that sin afterwards and asking humbly for forgiveness having come to those realisations.

Not that I believe this myself. I just think it's best not to make straw men out of anyone's arguments, whether or not I happen to agree with them. And I think you are misrepresenting the understanding of sin and forgiveness that most Christians hold.
 
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Trevorocity

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I think that doing something that you believe to be a sin, believing that you can get away with it because it will be forgiven, pretty much makes forgiveness impossible as far as many Christians are concerned.

And yet every "Christian" sins every day and continues to believe they'll be forgiven for it. Imagine that. Exact same thing.
 
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cantata

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And yet every "Christian" sins every day and continues to believe they'll be forgiven for it. Imagine that. Exact same thing.

I don't think it is.

I don't think you can genuinely repent if, when you're committing the sin, you do it at least partly because you think you're going to eschatologically get away with it when God forgives you. And if you can't properly repent, you can't get forgiven.

Christians sin, of course, but I don't think they sin because they think they can get away with it. It's a lapse; they're not using forgiveness as an exit strategy, or at least they shouldn't be. It's pretty easy to see the difference.
 
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selfinflikted

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I don't think it is.

I don't think you can genuinely repent if, when you're committing the sin, you do it at least partly because you think you're going to eschatologically get away with it when God forgives you. And if you can't properly repent, you can't get forgiven.

Christians sin, of course, but I don't think they sin because they think they can get away with it. It's a lapse; they're not using forgiveness as an exit strategy, or at least they shouldn't be. It's pretty easy to see the difference.

I agree. I don't think they sin because they can get away with it (forgiveness). But I do think they sin knowing they will get away with it (again, forgiveness). There's a very, very slight difference, but it's still basically the same thing.
 
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cantata

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I agree. I don't think they sin because they can get away with it (forgiveness). But I do think they sin knowing they will get away with it (again, forgiveness). There's a very, very slight difference, but it's still basically the same thing.

I should think that the difference is humility, and genuine repentance.

In the case of sinning because you can get away with it, it'd be pretty hard to repent. Repentance is only possible if you're genuinely contrite, and I don't see how someone who became gay in order to prove their point could be genuinely contrite about it.
 
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selfinflikted

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Repentance is only possible if you're genuinely contrite, and I don't see how someone who became gay in order to prove their point could be genuinely contrite about it.

I agree, and I've already expressed my dissatisfaction with this "challenge".
 
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cantata

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Nonetheless, Christians DO sin every day, and they DO trust that, by grace, they will be saved.

There are plenty of us gay Christians who readily admit that we are sinners.

When we treat our partners hurtfully or with neglect - yes...that is certainly sin.

But our faithful coupling is not sin at all; it is a great blessing.

Of course, I'd never argue with that. :)

I'm not a Christian - but I don't like to see people maligned, and I think that Trevorocity's portrayal of Christian understandings of sin is not quite right.
 
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ChaliceThunder

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Of course, I'd never argue with that. :)

I'm not a Christian - but I don't like to see people maligned, and I think that Trevorocity's portrayal of Christian understandings of sin is not quite right.

I can't speak for him, but I believe he is trying to point out the double standard by which many Christians appear to live.

Bless :wave:
 
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