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Prove me wrong Phobes, a challenge, I'm calling you OUT.

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Trevorocity

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Ah that was is an interesting cop-out, I'll get back to that later. But the challenge is perfectly legitimate and you know it. If a bunch of holier-than-thou "Christian" born straight people want to preach that homosexuals must change their sexual orientation in order to be saved, then one (or a statistical sample of about 700) needs to prove it works the other way. If homosexuality is a mere "lifestyle choice" or "preference" as they are often fond of spewing, then: prove it by simply choosing it. Also you said "meeting the 'challenge' you could then say that the person was homo- or bi- to begin with" That's funny because fundies don't accept that explanation when the situation is reversed. In other words, the claim "he really didn't become 'ex-gay' because he was a bisexual or straight to begin with" doesn't resonate with them. They still claim its a successful gay to straight change.
You and I both know the challenge is nonsense!
Since meeting the 'challenge' you could then say that the person was homo- or bi- to begin with.
 
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cantata

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Ah that was is an interesting cop-out, I'll get back to that later. But the challenge is perfectly legitimate and you know it. If a bunch of holier-than-thou "Christian" born straight people want to preach that homosexuals must change their sexual orientation in order to be saved, then one (or a statistical sample of about 700) needs to prove it works the other way. If homosexuality is a mere "lifestyle choice" or "preference" as they are often fond of spewing, then: prove it by simply choosing it. Also you said "meeting the 'challenge' you could then say that the person was homo- or bi- to begin with" That's funny because fundies don't accept that explanation when the situation is reversed. In other words, the claim "he really didn't become 'ex-gay' because he was a bisexual or straight to begin with" doesn't resonate with them. They still claim its a successful gay to straight change.

I don't understand why I don't count as exactly what you're looking for. Is it because I'm not a Christian?
 
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Trevorocity

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I don't understand why I don't count as exactly what you're looking for. Is it because I'm not a Christian?

If you had heard the challenge issued before you became bisexual maybe. However that actually isn't the threshold anyway. The challenge is out to confirmed heterosexuals to become confirmed homosexuals. Not to become bisexual. This is because they (fundies) are making the claim that "Hey guess what we can make you like us! For a moderate fee of course."
 
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Trevorocity

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We've already had a heterosexual tell about choosing to change. The thread starter has admitted that if you overcome your genetic predisposition the label changes.

I'm not sure how it can be claimed that "phobes" are running scared.

He didn't become homosexual just bisexual. In order for the phobes' rationale to stand up he would have to have become fully gay as they are claiming homosexuals can become fully straight.

Still waiting for you to change ;)
 
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lawtonfogle

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I don't really get your point here. A child cannot rape another child, because neither is able to properly consent, even if one of them is an aggressor. In the same way, if you were to argue that no one can properly consent to homosexual activity, nobody can rape a member of their own sex.

It may not be rape, but the one who didn't report it is the abuser according to the law.
 
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cantata

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If you had heard the challenge issued before you became bisexual maybe. However that actually isn't the threshold anyway. The challenge is out to confirmed heterosexuals to become confirmed homosexuals. Not to become bisexual. This is because they (fundies) are making the claim that "Hey guess what we can make you like us! For a moderate fee of course."

Okay, fair enough. It's your game, your rules.

However, I think that to be fair to most of those who would encourage homosexuals to change, the main concern is not, as far as I can tell, removing homosexual attraction per se, although they may claim that this is possible. Although ex-gay organisations do spend some time on eliminating homosexual attraction, what seems to be being aimed for is a "normal" i.e. heterosexual "lifestyle": a fulfilling relationship with an opposite-sex partner, and the cessation of any homosexual activity whatsoever. In actual fact, it seems likely that most people in favour of conversion therapy for homosexuals don't care whether gay people continue to be attracted to members of the same sex. What they care about is that they should be able to have a happy heterosexual marriage and be able to remain chaste with regard to homosexual activity.

(If any Christians in favour of conversion therapy would like to correct me about this, please let me know.)

Now given the fact that these people clearly do not believe that it's a quick and easy process to "kick the habit", as it were, of being a gay person - otherwise they obviously wouldn't recommend therapy, they'd just tell people to buck their ideas up - I think it's reasonable to conclude that they don't view homosexual activity as a choice in the sense that people wake up one day and decide to be gay. I should think they rather consider it a choice in the sense that becoming addicted to cigarettes is a choice: you choose to smoke the first few cigarettes, you choose to purchase more cigarettes, you choose to hang around with other smokers, &c. The fact that it was a choice in this sense doesn't mean that people decide to become addicted. But they do choose the initial steps towards addiction, and, crucially, they choose not to give up.

If I'm correct about this, then within this paradigm I can see several actually quite good reasons that people might not want to participate in your challenge. The first one is that if you consider homosexual activity to be psychologically and/or physically harmful then you may well be reluctant to try it, just as I am very reluctant to smoke a cigarette on the grounds that it is bad for my body. I am also reluctant to smoke a cigarette because I know that cigarettes have a track record of being addictive. Similarly, a second reason not to participate: if you understand "the homosexual lifestyle" to be addictive, it would not be entirely surprising that you would want to avoid venturing anywhere near it.

Now I might hasten to add that I neither consider homosexuality to be an addiction and nor do I consider it to be harmful. I think these people are wrong about how homosexual orientation is acquired for most people and also about the ethical and health status of homosexuality. But I think it is always wise to attempt to address disagreements at their root.

He didn't become homosexual just bisexual. In order for the phobes' rationale to stand up he would have to have become fully gay as they are claiming homosexuals can become fully straight.

Still waiting for you to change ;)

Oi! I'm a girl!
 
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Merlin

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Ah that was is an interesting cop-out, I'll get back to that later. But the challenge is perfectly legitimate and you know it. If a bunch of holier-than-thou "Christian" born straight people want to preach that homosexuals must change their sexual orientation in order to be saved, then one (or a statistical sample of about 700) needs to prove it works the other way. If homosexuality is a mere "lifestyle choice" or "preference" as they are often fond of spewing, then: prove it by simply choosing it. Also you said "meeting the 'challenge' you could then say that the person was homo- or bi- to begin with" That's funny because fundies don't accept that explanation when the situation is reversed. In other words, the claim "he really didn't become 'ex-gay' because he was a bisexual or straight to begin with" doesn't resonate with them. They still claim its a successful gay to straight change.

Nothing in the Bible requires such a change for salvation.
 
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cantata

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well that makes more sense. for girls it is just a choice.

Ohh!

So if a straight Christian woman became a lesbian in response to your challenge, that wouldn't count either?

I'm having a hard time telling whether this is sarcasm or genuine sexism.
 
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Merlin

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So the answer is "no you do not have any evidence to back up your claim at all."

thank you for clarifying your complete lack of proof

The only proof would to be to name each of the ~24,000 genes and their function.


How about, instead, you name the one gene you believe is the gay gene.
They're all mapped.
Should be easy for you to id only one of the almost 24,000
 
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